Pak to buy U214 - Senate debating reports of faults

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

Pak to acquire new subs

from Shaiq Hussain

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan will purchase new submarines from Germany or any other country to fulfil the requirements of its navy, said the outgoing Naval Chief Admiral Shahid Karimullah here Friday.

He was talking to newsmen at the Naval Headquarters after the change-of-command ceremony in which Admiral Mohammad Afzal Tahir assumed the charge of new Chief of Pakistan Navy.

The outgoing Naval Chief said that the submarines could be purchased from anywhere available best at bargaining price, as it constituted the key-defensive power.

He said the submarines and other equipment for naval forces would be acquired on the transfer of technology basis.

Admiral Shahid recalled that when he became the Naval Chief, the Pak-India relations were marred by tension and strain and Pakistan was facing embargoes.
At that time, he said, the new policy of look towards east was adopted and it was in accordance with that strategy that a deal was struck with China for the purchase of four frigates.

However, he added that time has changed and Pakistan is no more facing sanctions which has made it easier to acquire defence equipment. He said Pakistan would soon contact Germany and other European nations to buy new submarines. Admiral Shahid also said the long-range surveillance planes from Britain and hi-tech helicopters for the surveillance of the country’s territorial waters from China and France were being obtained to further strengthen the defensive power.

New Naval Chief told the journalists the US had also offered to sale frigates to Pakistan adding that both the sides were engaged in consultations and any decision would be made after these talks.

He informed that two new missile boats would also be included in the Pakistan Navy in December.

Responding to a query, he said that he had old friendship with Vice Admiral Mohammad Haroon and he would not let him leave the Navy.

Vice Admiral Haroon and the new Naval Chief had joined the Navy together, however, it was Admiral Afzal who could make it to the office of Naval Chief.
To another question, the Naval Chief said that with the construction of Gwadar Port Pakistan had been able to strengthen its maritime security adding it would lead to the betterment of economy as well. He added that now we would have effective control over the territorial waters.

Long article; http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/oct-2005/8/index15.php

 

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

This is a very interesting development, without a doubt! PakDef reported this earlier, and kudos to them for releasing the news before any media source could.

 

[EagleEyes]

This news was out i am guessing 3-5 weeks ago. Yes, this is a great news, but it is very tempting to know of which submarines will Pakistan acquire.

Let me do a quick research on the possiblities on the submarines that can be acquired, and i will be back right here in a moment.

 

[Thunder]

Iam more intersted in the way that pak navy is looking for TOT with the subs.A possibile sgn that pak navy has plans to make a homemeade sub.So these other subs with TOT are just "pratice" for our engienners

 

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

Indeed, acquiring ToT has become the new fashion in South Asia, but this is good news. As for which submarine, it could be something like Dolphin which Israel got, or the U-212/214 series.

 

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

A much better article regarding the issue; from DAWN
================================

ISLAMABAD, Oct 7: The new Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir, said on Friday that Pakistan Navy was fully capable of facing all sorts of challenges and protecting the country’s maritime interests.

Talking to newsmen after assuming command of Pakistan Navy at a ceremony here at the naval complex, he said: “All steps will be taken to ensure that the Navy continues to maintain credible deterrence.”

He said different options were being considered for the replacement of the obsolete Daphne class submarines. He said the policy would be to buy the best platform at the best price and terms.

He said that discussions on the price of two Olivier Hazard Perry Class submarines (Friages, not submarines, jahil journalists) from United States would start once the US Congress formally approves the sale. Buying surface platform is amongst the top priorities of the Pakistan Navy, said Admiral Tahir while pledging to continue efforts to strike the best deal possible.

In reply to a question about Vice Admiral Haroon, the officer superseded by him, he said he had no differences with Admiral Haroon and had family terms with him. He expressed confidence that Vice Admiral Haroon would not resign.

Earlier, speaking at the change of command ceremony, Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir said that Pakistan Navy’s primary role as a potent fighting force was to maintain optimum preparedness at all times. “It is towards the fulfillment of this primary task that I will strive,” he said.

“Today the navy can boast of a wide variety of military hardware in its inventory, but it should not be forgotten that it is the quality of fighting men that is the real force multiplier,” he said. The naval chief said the courage of personnel in difficult situations and their willingness to work well beyond the line of duty were great assets indeed. “While working together as a well-knit team, we shall Inshallah succeed in facing the challenges that lie ahead. We must be fully prepared to fight and prevail through the attributes of superior training, professional excellence and, above all, faith in our cause,” he emphasised.

With the passage of time and with the turn of events in this part of the globe, Pakistan Navy’s responsibilities have increased manifold, according to Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir. “It is our duty to discharge these responsibilities to the best of our ability and to the satisfaction of the government and the people of Pakistan,” he added.

Bidding farewell to the outgoing naval chief, he said Admiral Shahid Karimullah has been a distinguished naval chief who served Pakistan Navy for four decades of service with both wisdom and skill.

In his farewell address, the outgoing naval chief Admiral Shahid Karimullah said the navy today stands as an effective and efficient arm of the country’s armed forces, fully capable of protecting maritime interests and maintaining deterrence. He said Pakistan Navy had emerged as an effective instrument of the country’s defence and foreign policies, capable of showing presence in its area of interest.

About the steps taken for the acquisition of modern platforms and weapon systems, he said the naval fleet was being equipped with smaller vessels and two additional missile boats, constructed at Karachi shipyard. He also referred to the recently concluded contract with China for co-production of four F-22P frigates, and said these measures would considerably enhance the effectiveness of the surface fleet.

He said that naval aviation was also being strengthened by acquiring more long range maritime patrol aircraft to replace the existing Atlantiques and making the two grounded P3Cs operational. The two P-3Cs are presently undergoing overhaul in Pakistan with US assistance and are expected to be operational by the end of this year. P-3C Orion is a long range maritime patrol aircraft with an endurance of about 18 hours. It can carry Harpoon missiles.

The outgoing naval chief said while the US is gifting 8 P3Cs to Pakistan, agreements have also been reached to purchase 6 Z-9C helicopters from China and 8 Alouette III helicopters from France, which would considerably enhance the effectiveness of the Fleet Air Arm.

He said Pakistan Navy was exploring all options for the acquisition of new submarines to make up for the shortfall in their numbers created by phasing out the old Daphne class submarines and to maintain a credible offensive punch.

He said while planning to induct new surface, air and subsurface platforms, due attention has also been paid to acquisition of latest weapons and sensors for modernisation of the existing units. He made a special mention of torpedoes for Agosta 90-B submarines, and said the acquisition of Harpoon Block-II missiles and the latest CIWS will also contribute significantly to the Navy’s operational capability.

http://www.dawn.com/2005/10/08/nat7.htm

 

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

To summarize it all up, the Pakistan Navy will be looking at all of its submarine options, and decide on the best price:performance ratio. The U-212/214 may be an option, we'll have to wait and see, although I hope that series is chosen!

In addition, the PN ordered 6 Z-9Cs from China, and recovering 2 P-3Cs. The overall P-3C Orion fleet would be around 12! We're also getting those Harpoon-Block-IIs and Phalanx.

 

[EagleEyes]

Just found out that China also has U-212/214 type submarines indegious built i think they will be much cheaper, but of course the technology can't be superior to those Germany ones.

Here is the picture of Chinese new diesel/electric sub.

Many Chinese say that China is influenced by these submarines, and couldn't acquire it. So it built it by its own, and they say Germany might had helped them creating the hull.

 

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

The Chinese submarine looks like Kilo.

 

[Arjun]

Why another type ???

Pakistan should build more Agostas !

 

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

Originally posted by ArjunMk1@Oct 9 2005, 03:03 AM
Why another type ???

Pakistan should build more Agostas !

[post=493]Quoted post[/post]​

Many speculate its because of a new sub launched missile Germany is developing, and the large missile tubes in German subs.

 

[Arjun]

Originally posted by Diving Falcon@Oct 9 2005, 05:50 PM
Many speculate its because of a new sub launched missile Germany is developing, and the large missile tubes in German subs.

[post=527]Quoted post[/post]​

This will be a burden to Pakistan Navy's logistical and financial capabilities . Agostas can also fire missiles !! Larger missile tubes does'nt make subs more attractive regarding their costs .

 

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

Originally posted by ArjunMk1@Oct 9 2005, 05:02 PM
This will be a burden to Pakistan Navy's logistical and financial capabilities . Agostas can also fire missiles !! Larger missile tubes does'nt make subs more attractive regarding their costs .

[post=580]Quoted post[/post]​

It will be a logistical burden in operating different types of submarines, however, on the other hand Pakistan may be looking at different sources for weapons. Germany is also developing an advanced sub-launched missile, Pakistan wants to have a diverse fleet, German missile + diverse fleet = German submarines. They still haven't specified which type yet either, and there hasn't been a clear official word regarding Transfer of Technology.

 

[EagleEyes]

What do you guys think about German submarines? Are they better than Agosta 90bs? Or Pakistan just want a diverse fleet for some naval tactics?

 

[Bilal Hussain Khan]

Originally posted by Web Master@Oct 10 2005, 12:11 AM
What do you guys think about German submarines? Are they better than Agosta 90bs? Or Pakistan just want a diverse fleet for some naval tactics?

[post=594]Quoted post[/post]​

I think diverse fleet, access to different weapons (IDAS - a sub launched missile), etc. Well this is still in its early stages, negotiations may take months up to a year, so we'll have to wait and see.