Pak-Sino relations and its impact on Pakistans reputation in the Muslim world

[The Vicious Kind]

Why don't enlighten us with facts about the great strides Afghanistan made in development, education, quality of life, economy during the rule of Talibans supported by the uniformed people in Rawalpindi.

And how has life under the current Afghan government improved ? Its still is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. It has one the lowest HDI on the planet. Its practically a "Narco-state". The same warlords and druglords who sat in Jirgas now sit in their parliament.

Pakistan supported Taliban only after they took Kandahar. At the time, supporting Taliban was considered the only logical option, since it was either them or the Pashtun massacring Tajik warlords like general Dostum(now vice president).

 

[rockstar08]

Muslim World actually don't give a shit about Pakistan , they see Pakistan as a Military force to save their A$$'s when they are busy fighting Sectarian shit ..they come to Pakistan to hunt rare species .. and here in Pakistan people are proud to be like Arabs .. Stupid .
if Turkey and China want to come closer by Diplomatic ways , than Pakistan is there to help , but Pakistan should not take any sides,not anymore ..

 

[RealNapster]

Yes we hosted 3-5 Afghan refugees. Yes we caused deaths of nearly 1 million Afghans. Yes Afghans refused to host 100 million Muslims from British Raj during 1920s. Afghanistan is a mountainous country and even after 100 years Afghan popluation has not reached 100 million. It was not practical.

100 million Muslims ???
they were some 30,000 to 40,000 .. if i remember correctly. first Afghani's committed to host them, muslims from brithish raj leave jobs, sold there cattle's, properties, jewelry everything and start there journey. but on there arrival those Afghani's refuse to host them. most of them didn't find there way back to British raj. 1000's gone missing during journey. what about them ???....... Afghani's are the bastards of bastards of bastards of bastards of bastards.

But who cares, do you ? doesn't seem like that !.. and Guess what " Those Afghani's bastards are polluting my society morally and literally. i am talking about my Province KP. and still they are abusing my country who the hell are they to abuse my country. ??

 

[MadDog]

Brother, don't wish for Ummet to be dead, for that means the end of the world.

Brother, I guess he didn't mean in the literal sense of the word. But if one looks at events, I guess Arab Nationalism and Sectarian conflicts (between Iran and Saudi Arabia) have done significant damage to the unity and concept of Ummah. Turks have led the muslims world for 600 years, but in the end due to Arab nationalism and selfish interests, the Arabs of the time supported the British against Turks, so I believe Arab nationalism is the main cause of damaging the concept of Ummah.
As you are well aware, at the same time muslims of present day Pakistan, serving in British Army revolted, went to Turkey to fight for Turks, many were even hanged by the British government for doing this. It was because our ancestors knew it was their duty to fight for those who had protected honour of muslims for more than 600 years !!!

Turkey has never betrayed Pakistan, but Turkey did betray Muslim Syria and turned that country into a war zone. When Muslim countries back stab each other at every given opportunity how can you say that Pakistan should take into consideration the sentiments of Muslim countries?

Pakistan has suffered the worst insurgency in the history of any Muslim country with more than 60,000 dead and 70 billion dollars worth of economic and infrastructural damage, and now that we are beginning to recover with the help of China we must now take into consideration the sentiments of Muslim countries? If our Muslim brother countries genuinely care about us they would not discourage us from cooperating with China.

My mistake. I apologize. Nevertheless, Turkey has never betray Pakistan.

My mistake. I apologize. Nevertheless, Turkey has never betray Pakistan.

Pakistan's and Turkey's relations are special and predate the creation of both countries. How ever I disagree with the statement that Turkey has betrayed Syrian muslims, I believe every country has its own self interests. If someone believes Turkey betrayed Syrian muslims, then we should also accept Pakistan betrayed Afghan muslims by supporting the Taliban regime, and supporting actors of our choice in Afghan civil war which resulted in complete destruction of Kabul with thousands of innocent killed !!!

 

[krash]

Hahaha .... go and check the Turkey official Line in case of Kashmir Its exactly same as of India .

You take your foreign policy courses from wiki don't you?

Turkey has softened its pro-Pakistani approach on the Kashmir issue realizing that it is important to build up a coherent and comprehensive relationship with India and develop a holistic Asian policy. Turkey has since reversed its support to Pakistan’s position on Kashmir, moving from a call for a plebiscite under UN supervision to stressing the importance of India-Pakistan bilateral talks to resolve the issue, which is by and large closer to India’s position.[1]

Which is quoted from an IDSA (Indian institute) issue brief from 2010.

http://www.idsa.in/system/files/IB_IndiaTurkeyRelations.pdf

Let's take a look now at what the Turkish Prime Minister himself has to say on the subject,

The Jammu and Kashmir issue has been awaiting a just solution for 65 years. This solution should come through peaceful dialogue, in accordance with the relevant UN resolutions

Statement by H.E. Ahmet Davutoğlu, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Turkey at the Ministerial Meeting Preparatory to the Twelfth Session of the Islamic Summit Conference, 4 February 2013, Cairo / Rep. of Turkey Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Or most recently,

Pakistan, Turkey reiterate unequivocal support on Kashmir, Cyprus

Nice try....

 

[Saurabh jindals]

You take your foreign policy courses from wiki don't you?

so what is turkey official position according to you ?
IF according to you wiki is wrong then why not correct it ?

You take your foreign policy courses from wiki don't you?



.

SO
"The Jammu and Kashmir issue has been awaiting a just solution for 65 years. This solution should come through peaceful dialogue, in accordance with the relevant UN resolutions"

This is Pakistan line in Kashmir matter ?

 

[krash]

so what is turkey official position according to you ?
IF according to you wiki is wrong then why not correct it ?

What cup of tea have you been drinking? Do you not see the links? The first one is the transcript of the Turkish Foreign Minister's speech before which he explicitly said that he is representing the Turkish Prime minister's stance (which would obviously go without saying). It is posted on the Turkish Governments own website....

SO
"The Jammu and Kashmir issue has been awaiting a just solution for 65 years. This solution should come through peaceful dialogue, in accordance with the relevant UN resolutions"

This is Pakistan line in Kashmir matter ?

"More than six decades ago the United Nations had passed resolutions to hold a plebiscite in Jammu and Kashmir, he said. However, the people there were still waiting for the fulfilment of that promise. Many generations of Kashmiris had lived under occupation, accompanied by violence and abuse of their fundamental rights. It was the responsibility of the international community to resolve the issue of Jammu and Kashmir, he underscored, reaffirming Pakistan’s readiness to work for a resolution of this problem through negotiations." - Nawaz Sharif at the UN.

General Debate of the 69th Session of the UN General Assembly

So pray do tell us how these two statements differ. And then also tell us how anyone of them is similar to India's stance? Cmon, don't expect me to do your work for you.

I then further gave a second link which is the joint press release after the meeting between the Pakistani and Turkish heads of state. The release said "Pakistan and Turkey reiterated unequivocal support for each other’s position on the issues of Kashmir and Cyprus." which leaves no room for any Indian fantasies about the Turkish stance on Kashmir. And also leaves you the burden of deciphering the "cryptic" statement in the first link. I'll give you a more official link to that press release now,

Press Information Department (Government of Pakistan)


Leave it to the Indian internet brigade to claim or reject anything in the world upon their fancy. You people present fantastical claims based on pathetic sources and devoid of any proof, keep repeating them as true in hopes that it will some how become true just because you say that it is. Then on top of that you then have the audacity of demanding the other to disprove your claims.

OT @KediKesenFare :

I don't think Turkey or China is going anywhere when it comes to Pakistan. These are the only two countries about whom Pakistanis and Pakistan's foreign policy pledges such massive and almost unanimous support.

I took a foreign policy course by Azmat Hassan (former ambassador of Pakistan to many countries). He once told us of when he was sent as part of a delegation to Turkey where among other activities he was to sit in a Q&A session at a Turkish university. Being questioned on Pakistan's would be stance on many different possible future Turkish issues he kept answering "Pakistan would support the Turkish stance". To this a student asked "why will Pakistan support Turkey in all these issues?", to which his reply was "Because it is Turkey and Pakistan will always support Turkey", his Turkish counterpart smiled and nodded at the student. He also had a lot of other stories of Turkish-Pakistani support for which this post is too short.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

@krash

I love you and I love your people. There can be no single doubt that we stand with Pakistan.

 

[wiseone2]

You take your foreign policy courses from wiki don't you?



Which is quoted from an IDSA (Indian institute) issue brief from 2010.

http://www.idsa.in/system/files/IB_IndiaTurkeyRelations.pdf

Let's take a look now at what the Turkish Prime Minister himself has to say on the subject,




Statement by H.E. Ahmet Davutoğlu, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Turkey at the Ministerial Meeting Preparatory to the Twelfth Session of the Islamic Summit Conference, 4 February 2013, Cairo / Rep. of Turkey Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Or most recently,

Pakistan, Turkey reiterate unequivocal support on Kashmir, Cyprus

Nice try....

Turkey supports Pakistan over Kashmir. Pakistan backs Turkey on Cyprus. India supports Greece on Cyprus. On balance Greece and Turkey cancel each other out

 

[krash]

@krash

I love you and I love your people. There can be no single doubt that we stand with Pakistan.

Trust me brother, the feeling is mutual. Check out the pictures of Solo Turk visiting Pakistan. Old women caressing the Turkish pilot as if he was their long lost son.

Twice I've become friends with someone just because I was a Pakistani. Once a random Chinese dude waiting in line behind me at a 7-eleven who raised his hands and yelled "Pakistani brother!" when me being Pakistani came up while talking to the cashier and then a random Turkish dude on a local bus who saw the Pakistani flag pin on my bag. Where the Pakistani people began caring for the Chinese because of the economic and unwavering mutual political support, for the Turks they first began caring just because they were Turks (and vis versa) and then from that our unwavering mutual political support spawned.

The reason why we see China more 'involved' with Pakistan is 1) it's directly in the region sharing common regional objectives while Turkey is far away and 2) China has the cash to spend in Pakistan and the reasons for it too while Turkey not so much, yet.

I'd be thinking more about Pakistan being the catalyst in bringing Turkey and China closer instead of it being made to choose between the two.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Trust me brother, the feeling is mutual. Check out the pictures of Solo Turk visiting Pakistan. Old women caressing the Turkish pilot as if he was their long lost son.

Twice I've become friends with someone just because I was a Pakistani. Once a random Chinese dude waiting in line behind me at a 7-eleven who raised his hands and yelled "Pakistani brother!" when me being Pakistani came up while talking to the cashier and then a random Turkish dude on a local bus who saw the Pakistani flag pin on my bag. Where the Pakistani people began caring for the Chinese because of the economic and unwavering mutual political support, for the Turks they first began caring just because they were Turks (and vis versa) and then from that our unwavering mutual political support spawned.

The reason why we see China more 'involved' with Pakistan is 1) it's directly in the region sharing common regional objectives while Turkey is far away and 2) China has the cash to spend in Pakistan and the reasons for it too while Turkey not so much, yet.

I'd be thinking more about Pakistan being the catalyst in bringing Turkey and China closer instead of it being made to choose between the two.

What an epic pic, bro. You are absolutely right. But I seriously doubt that our stupid politicians can think of bringing Turkey and China closer as they aren't even able to see beyond their noses. We, the people should take an initiative and go for it.

This last week went very depressing for Pakistanis over here in PDF as they were seeing their two best allies are blasting each other over this event. I hope this never happens again.

Take care, bro.

 

[American Pakistani]

Turkeye and China are the two countries who have undisputed support in Pakistan regardless of the political/religious party. All political parties as well as religious parties wish to have greater brotherly ties with these two countries and it is because of the general Pakistani population who grow up hearing in schools/stories from Grand parents about the deep brotherly ties with these two countries. The relations are not just due to economic or any other reason.

 

[haviZsultan]

The world of international relations is one big entangling web. China and Turkey are not friends. Pakistan and China are friends but Pakistan is also a friend of Turkey. What is happening on this thread is that each nation is trying to woo Pakista on their side. But Pakistan doesn't have to take sides. We can be friends with anyone no matter what kind of relationship they have with the other.

In short we Pakistanis will continue to see both the Chinese and Turks as friends. If anyone objects they can take their battle to the other. We Pakistanis are only regretful of having one ally. It is the United States of bullying and we want to maintain solid relations with both Turkey and China. I don't think either country would want to pull us from a relationship with China/Turkey in any case. They understand that friendships in this world have a unique way of happening.

 

[NP-complete]

Who cares what two brawling trolls, one named Sunni and the other named Shia, think about them.

 

[wiseone2]

Brother, I guess he didn't mean in the literal sense of the word. But if one looks at events, I guess Arab Nationalism and Sectarian conflicts (between Iran and Saudi Arabia) have done significant damage to the unity and concept of Ummah. Turks have led the muslims world for 600 years, but in the end due to Arab nationalism and selfish interests, the Arabs of the time supported the British against Turks, so I believe Arab nationalism is the main cause of damaging the concept of Ummah.
As you are well aware, at the same time muslims of present day Pakistan, serving in British Army revolted, went to Turkey to fight for Turks, many were even hanged by the British government for doing this. It was because our ancestors knew it was their duty to fight for those who had protected honour of muslims for more than 600 years !!!





Pakistan's and Turkey's relations are special and predate the creation of both countries. How ever I disagree with the statement that Turkey has betrayed Syrian muslims, I believe every country has its own self interests. If someone believes Turkey betrayed Syrian muslims, then we should also accept Pakistan betrayed Afghan muslims by supporting the Taliban regime, and supporting actors of our choice in Afghan civil war which resulted in complete destruction of Kabul with thousands of innocent killed !!!

why are Turkey and Pakistan exactly friends ??
Turkey has tense relations with China and Russia - both of which are more important to Pakistan