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Pak rebuffs US on Haqqani network crackdown

Then by virtue of agreements with IMF/World Banks or economic dependence on few...all the world is a mercenary?

Independent decisions are a very pearly term but how many countries or leaders can make all decisions independently of any factor whatsoever?
Do the economic conditions, political limitations etc. never factor into any decision made by even the best of leaders?
Seeking aid of world bank to make the hydroelectric power plants and additional irrigation system is not actually slavery...we had a lot to gain and did gain from it...it is sheer folly to call it all an ill conceived plan or willful surrender to foreign manipulation.

We all know how Pakistan started as extremely poor and did not get what was its fair share of funds due to the animosity between India and Pakistan.
Where was the British Raj then?
We had lots of problems but in the Ayub era when we entered into many agreements with World Bank we did not become pathetic but instead our economy become extremely healthy...clearly all our ills cannot simply be pinned on our economic agreements of the 50s and 60s...they were actually working...however we lost the plot on the political front eventually...which derailed the economic progress as well.

Calling our Army as mere mercenaries would imply that all our wars and military actions were at the behest of foreign powers generally or the British Raj specifically?
Thinking carefully...that is not what i can digest, it is oversimplification to say the least and clearly not at all a constructive comment in any sense.

We made good and bad decisions both, some turned in our favor and others we regret...however this does not mean that we kick logical thinking out of the box and always resort to raw emotions...cold calculations have to be made by leaders and no country can be detached from the economic reality facing it.

We made many decisions independent of what would USA or UK think about...Nuclear program for one...but many others as well...do not sell ourselves short here now...to have such fierce pride that one thinks they should defy the world all the time is not a very good trait and certainly not one which good leaders adhere to all the time.
It only leads to isolation and defeat in the long run.

Strong decision making is needed now more than ever but we should not think that all decisions we made were weak...
Economic Crisis in Pakistan


In 21st century economy is taken as ‘Religion’. It is the blood in the veins of nation state, vitality in the human muscles, base for brutal wars and a reason for governments to rule. The motherland has painfully experienced rising poverty and sinking economy; despite world’s best canal system, profitable geostrategic location, and unexplored resources. The nation, who earned nuclear position despite miseable poverty and sever foreign pressure, can do wonders, if provided with dedicated leadership.

Present Scenario:

Pakistan’s economy is in a downward spiral. Inflation is at 25percent (food inflation 50%), foreign reserves are falling, and the government is in danger of defaulting on its foreign debt. A spike in global food prices has hit Pakistanis especially hard, and the global financial crisis only threatens to exacerbate Pakistan’s economic woes. Pakistan is watching foreign investors flee.

Weak governance has contributed to growing militancy in Pakistan, economic troubles, and regional instability. As in the past, the possibility remains that Pakistan’s military could conduct a coup if it perceives the government as inept. Or Pakistanis may rise up in protest due to the government’s inability to deal with economic issues.

Pakistan economy is under its terrible crisis due to following REASONS

Ø One of the immediate causes is Political instability due to Musharaf’s position as president, delay in restoring judiciary and resultantly withdrawal of PML (N) from the alliance leaving behind ‘dead’ ministry of finance. In contrast the present government is not showing strong will to cope with the situation. Though some Positive Measures. To end Load Shedding till 14th August, 2009, Benazir income Scheme programme, Distribution of Land in Sindh, tight Tariff System against luxury items

Ø Suicide attacks in the industrial cities-fear among people, disinvestment and maximum outflow of capital, especially in Dubai stock exchange crash.

Foreign investment in 2007 was $ 700,63.5 million but in 2008 only $329 million.

Ø Soaring oil prices due to increased demand from growing economics of China and India, Iraq crisis, Iran holding its oil export, devaluation of Dollar after Iraq invasion and limited supply by OPEC, refusal of Saudi Arabia to enhance its oil supply. More population to use energy from to $ 134/ barrel in 2008.

Ø Food crisis oil prices, low agriculture yield due to heavy cost of production (seeds, pesticides, water and fertilizers), unavailability of small loans to small farmers, power shortage, fast increasing of population, poor governance in managing the food and to stop its smuggling to Afghanistan. Central Asia and Iran which stored big food stocks due to American war. World Food Crisis encouraged its smuggling. Less attention by the governments to live stock, dairy stock, increased circulation of paper currency. Big share of ‘Middle Man’.

Ø World Food Crisis: population explosion, emergence of middle class with more food consumption in India and China. Low yield in India. Earthquake in China, increase in world oil prices.

Ø ENERGY CRISIS:

Ø Inflation means price hike, huge gar between demand and supply, too many rupees chasing too few things. More supply of Money due to; AID after 9/11. Foreign Remittances due to over seas Pakistanis, growth in banking sector and investment in real estate. Poor supply of goods, food items due to low yield. Inflation due to rise in oil prices, food, removal of food subsidy, devaluation of Rupee, higher import price, Government borrowing from State Bank Rs . 544 billion. Resultantly increase in wage-price. Delay in monetary tightening by the State Bank. Government claims 25% while actual is 32% while food inflation is 45%

Ø Deceleration of growth in manufacturing: energy crisis. Terrorist incidents. High interest rates by SBP discouraged Private investment. High imports and low exports. 75 industrial units in Karachi and 85 in Faisalabad were closed due to energy crisis.

Ø Fiscal deficit: 6.5% of GDP, target was 4%. Due to slippage in revenue and expenditure- Dismal Growth; lower Tax collection. Heavy subsidy on oil effected current expenditure, increased in development expenditure. Decline external financing flows, so the government borrowed from SBP which caused monetary expansion, continuous Defense Budget.

Poor tax system:

Only salaried persons pay regular tax, while the major sectors find safe path through corruption. Agriculture tax cannot be imposed due to feudal in policy making.

Unilateral growth:

Production was not encouraged by the previous government, rather Pakistan was made a consumer society, services sector was enhanced which created less jobs.

China factor:

Cheaper Chinese products destroyed our industry thus created unemployment, more burdens on economy.

Illiterate labor: is less productive

Defence budget at the expense of economic development

Regional conflicts has marred the gas pipelines and usage of Gwadar.

Overpopulation at the rate of 1.9% is swallowing the resources

IMF loans hinder development and put burden on the masses.


Positive Indicators:


Services sector expansion at 8.2%. Highest Sugarcane production 63.9% million.

Construction field, per capital income $ 1085.

Statistic:

GDP growth rate 5.8% investment declined to 21.6% of GDP. National savings to 13.9% of GDP.


Pragamatic Solutions:

· political commitment to formulate short term and long term policies with consistency

· Levy of an excise duty on non-essential consumer goods to save foreign reserves

· Development of the agricultural income tax by the provinces

· Give priority to agriculture, water, power, health and education.

· Limiting the extent of govt borrowing from the State Bank of Pakistan

· Establish an independent Federal Bureau of Statistics headed by a professional that directly reports to the Parliament and not to the govt.

· Establish independent panel of experts to engage in the consultative process in the design, implementation and monitoring of donor supported projects critical to the medium-term economic recovery. This will ensure transparency, rig our and relevance.

· Given the multiple dimensions of uncertainty in the global, national and household economy, it is essential that the highest priority for protection to the poor where uncertainty can lead to irreversible damage-in the shape of high morbidity and mortality, decline in the nutritional status of children and women, and withdrawal from schools.

· An over-arching principle should be maximum leveraging of scarce public resources by exploring all potential avenues for private partnership in the public development program.

· A core structure weakness of the economy highlighted by the current crisis is the lack of international competitiveness that retards an export-led growth strategy.

· Govt’s role in providing marketing information and producing to international needs to be revamped.

· Within country logistics costs should be reduced.

· Worker skills are critical to give our firms a competitive edge in international markets; programs for skill upgrading need to be modernized.

· The current debilitating power shortages have to be redressed quickly and a well through medium term energy plan need to be in place that provides reasonably priced and good quality power to industry.

· Given our natural comparative advantage in agriculture, i.e. the world’s largest contiguous canal irrigation system, diversity of agro-climatic zones, good soil conditions and cheap labor with a centuries old farming traditions, poor crop yields and absence of high value added agricultural exports, is a glaring example of unfulfilled promise.

· Maintenance, modernization and expansion of key rural infrastructure spanning water, roads and electricity are in urgent need of policy and institutional reforms.

· Accelerating the growth of small and medium farms where there is considerable potential for increasing yield per acre and employment generation

To reduce regional inequalities by actively targeting less-developed areas of the country. The Balochistan govt must be provided the resources to implement its strategy. In addition, similar strategies need to be developed for NWFP.

Greater decentralization of resources and setting of development priorities by the provinces themselves.

Encourage investment by China in Pakistan through development of infrastructure and appropriate


incentives to tap South Asian markets.

Increase and modernize land trade routes, including investment in infrastructure and allowing each others trucks and containers to carry cargo to market destinations.

Pakistan’s institutional and economic structure continues to constrains its ability to achieve long-term poverty reduction and inclusive economic growth; and sustain an unequal distribution of income and opportunities for its male and female citizenry. Therefore to provide equitable market access for the poor and enable them to contribute to GDP growth through sustainable livelihood.

Poverty reduction;

· Access over productive assets to provided to the poor.

Distribution of state land to landless and tenant households that support production and provide extension services. Provision of credit to the poor, particularly small farmers, to become equity holders in mainstream corporate enterprises and fields such as milk, livestock, marine fisheries, processed food and even industries like telecommunications, apparel and software.

During President Clinton’s visit to Pakistan in March 2000- he said, ‘This era does not reward people who struggle in vain to redraw borders with blood. It belongs to those in the region who look beyond borders, for partners and for commerce and trade’.


Conclusion:


Pakistan is surrounded by numerous internal and external threats of gigantic magnitude. Our mother land is the achievement of millions of sacrifices. Therefore, it is prime duty of every individual, the society, and the state to uphold the constructive norms in order to get honor in the community of nations. Pakistan is not a poor country, but a poorly managed country; only a sincere leadership with real commitments can turn this hell into heaven. Need is for restoring confidence of people who have potential to achieve all the colors of rainbow. The present ongoing occupation of neighboring brother countries by the world’s only super power, America, signifies that a disorganized Pakistan may fell prey to its aggression. Only energetic people, a dedicated leadership with strong military muscles, improved economy and dynamic society face
 
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Pakistan's pals in Pakistan are the Taliban. As shown by every opinion poll, the vast majority of the Afghans are highly averse to the Taliban. And you know it. That is why Pakistan needs to deny the Afghans their independence. This is the root of all problems in Afghanistan.

If you really thought Mullah Omar and Co are so popular, you would be asking them to contest democratic elections.

Pakistan's pals were mujahideen as well not just Taliban...the reason is simple, the party in control of the Afghan side of Pak Afghan border shall always be made as comfortable as possible by Pakistan to ensure a trouble free Pakistan, a hostile presence on the other hand would be highly detrimental to our prosperity and peace.

Pakistan never denied Afghanistan anything and certainly not its independence...we do however have some interests in Afghanistan due to the unique relationship between the Pakistani and Afghan Pashtun Tribes, ignoring which is not possible for us.

To set the record straight it was Afghanistan which opposed Pakistan from day one and their government even tried to instigate a Pashtun Rebellion in Pakistan which was met with an iron fist by the Pakistani Pashtun Tribesmen themselves...so much for the threat of Afghan independence destabilizing Pakistan, our Pakistani Pashtun community certainly showed that it was not willing to part away from Pakistan.

It is not Afghan independence but the Afghan meddling in Pakistan which was the reason of ill will initially...however eventually it was rectified when Pakistan played a positive role in accommodating millions of Afghan Refugees in its country...the largest host of Refugees in the world is Pakistan...of course the reasons were both humanitarian and to gain a friendly neighbor in our west...certainly nothing evil about it.

The vast majority of people do not like the ideas of Taliban but many Afghans do see them fighting a foreign force and their loyalty is not with Northern Alliance which is also not a popular force and especially does not have any influence of note on the Pashtuns...same thing happened in Soviet war as well, the Afghan government became more and more weak since it was seen as puppet and rebels became stronger since they were fighting foreign troops...eventually the Afghans are a very proud nation and do not tolerate foreigners dictating terms no matter what the reasons or arrangements maybe...this is what is helping Taliban.
As long as they resist, their support will increase till the current government openly embraces the Pashtun community and engages in dialogues with Taliban who for one reason or another are still a force to be reckoned with.

Currently the various heeds of reconciliation and participation of Taliban in the political process is i think a positive development and should not be ignored, it will reduce the violence immensely and give strength to the moderate elements in Taliban, the same elements which prevailed upon Omar when he accepted to try Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan for the crimes he was accused of, even if it was late decision, it shows that the two parties are not the same and efforts should be made to split them.
Al Qaeda will never accept any peace no matter what the terms and does not care at all for any innocent life lost...they thrive in conflict and destruction which is all at the cost of Afghans and Pakistanis these days.
 
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Yeah but they weren't democracies. In a democracy, Pashtuns would side with Pakistan over India. If the current set up continues we can easily sponsor an armed rebellion to overthrow the Indian puppets in Kabul.

Keep on dreaming. Even the puppet taliban didnt obey all pakistani orders as much as GOP wanted. Dont forget that in a democratic gov in Afghanistan ,all ethnic groups will have vital part not just one. If you think that Pashtoons(40% in Afghanistan) are much in love with Pakistan then you are wrong, how about other ethnic groups(who are 60% of the total population of afghanistan)? they can never have any love for pakistan because of the huge mistrust. Besides that Some pashtoons never see NWFP as part of pakistan and this so called durand line is a hot topic for them.
 
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Keep on dreaming. Even the puppet taliban didnt obey all pakistani orders as much as GOP wanted. Dont forget that in a democratic gov in Afghanistan ,all ethnic groups will have vital part not just one. If you think that Pashtoons(40% in Afghanistan) are much in love with Pakistan then you are wrong, how about other ethnic groups(who are 60% of the total population of afghanistan)? they can never have any love for pakistan because of the huge mistrust. Besides that Some pashtoons never see NWFP as part of pakistan and this so called durand line is a hot topic for them.

Oh and all of them are in Love with Bhaarat:pop:

You dont worry about Pakistan whether they love us or not you should start packing your luggage.
 
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Oh and all of them are in Love with Bhaarat:pop:

You dont worry about Pakistan whether they love us or not you should start packing your luggage.

It is between pakistan and India, you guys need to sort out your problems. because of the proxy war between pakistan and india , alqadea and america etc ,we are paying the price. our country has become battlefield and we are the only ones getting hurt. As per our love with India, thats what the people will decide, if they love them , hate them or just nothing and something normal, it is upto them.

interestingly you didnt deny the above fact i mentioned and instead brought the issue of india.
 
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http/defense-archive.teldan.com/Article/US-Afghan-Strategy-in-Peril-as-Pakistan-Refuses-To-Take-On-Key-Militant.aspx?&sID=450439]US Afghan Strategy in Peril as Pakistan Refuses To Take On K...

Pakistan's refusal to date to take on a top Taleban commander who is considered one of the gravest threats to Western forces in the region is endangering a key plank of President Obama's strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan.
 
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The US Afghan Policy was in perils since day one because it was a wrong war which bounds to end wrongly sooner or later.
 
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Les Américains ont attaqué Afganistan,mais non pas le pakistan!
Les afgans talibans ne se battent pas contre le pakistan mais contre l'OTAN!
Quand l'armé pakistanaise avaient commencé l'offensive contre TTP in south waziristan, les américans ont trahi le pakistan! Nous devons faire la meme chose avec eux!

pakistan TTP talibans=terroristes, not jihadis
afgan talibans== freedome fighters!
:pakistan:
 
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Les Américains ont attaqué Afganistan,mais non pas le pakistan!
Les afgans talibans ne se battent pas contre le pakistan mais contre l'OTAN!
Quand l'armé pakistanaise avaient commencé l'offensive contre TTP in south waziristan, les américans ont trahi le pakistan! Nous devons faire la meme chose avec eux!

pakistan TTP talibans=terroristes, not jihadis
afgan talibans== freedome fighters!
:pakistan:


Would you please translate it in English
 
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http/defense-archive.teldan.com/Article/US-Afghan-Strategy-in-Peril-as-Pakistan-Refuses-To-Take-On-Key-Militant.aspx?&sID=450439]US Afghan Strategy in Peril as Pakistan Refuses To Take On K...

Pakistan's refusal to date to take on a top Taleban commander who is considered one of the gravest threats to Western forces in the region is endangering a key plank of President Obama's strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Obama's strategies are failure my friend.. look at 44% rating of his credibility and trust that Americans have left on him. Our strategy is of brining the peace to his reason is more realistic and favorable to Pakistan/Afghanistan than some shaved head American might have. Its OUR region if you would like to understand and its our discretion to establish it the way we want. We know American's feet are already in the air and there is no-point in taking the side of a country that has already lost its moral and military stance in Afghanistan. USA cannot afford next 10 years of war in Afghanistan and we got to live with Afghanistan as long as life exists on earth. Taliban suit Pakistan a lot more than the occupying forces of Afghanistan, let it be America or NATO or Indian asserts dreaming to shape it the way the want.
 
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Besides that Some pashtoons never see NWFP as part of pakistan and this so called durand line is a hot topic for them.

Not for me. I'm Pashtoon and I consider NWFP as an integral part of Pakistan like most Pakistani Pashtoon's do. In fact, I recently visited Peshawar and the sentiment is certainly against the Afghan's. Most Pakistani Pashtoon's believe that Afghan's have a totally different culture and norms and values. That's the ground reality.

On a different note, you claim a lot about the Pashtoon's yet most are alienated and ethnically cleansed in Afghanistan. The divide between the various ethnicities and the minority Pashtoon's in Afghanistan is shocking to say the least. The Pashtoon's are discriminated and their rights snatched from them. Afghanistan has never cared for the Pashtoon's.
 
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It is between pakistan and India, you guys need to sort out your problems. because of the proxy war between pakistan and india , alqadea and america etc ,we are paying the price. our country has become battlefield and we are the only ones getting hurt. As per our love with India, thats what the people will decide, if they love them , hate them or just nothing and something normal, it is upto them.

interestingly you didnt deny the above fact i mentioned and instead brought the issue of india.

We are sorting out our problems and we know how to do that. For this no one has the right to come up with their ideas to impose on us.

Besides indeed its up to Afghan people to love or hate anyone they want so thats why your statment about their hate or love against Pakistan and for that matter anyone were uncalled for.


One this clear that Afghans want the invaders out of their country simple as that.
 
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Not for me. I'm Pashtoon and I consider NWFP as an integral part of Pakistan like most Pakistani Pashtoon's. In fact, I recently visited Peshawar and the sentiment is certainly against the Afghan's. That's the reality.

One a different note, you claim a lot about the Pashtoon's yet most are alienated and ethnically cleansed in Afghanistan. The divide between the various ethnicities and the minority Pashtoon's in Afghanistan is shocking to say the least. Afghanistan has never cared for the Pashtoon's.


I was refering to the Pashtoons of Afghanistan. There is no doubt that ethnic problems exist in Afghanistan(who has done what and what everyone says and what is the side of story of everyone is another thing which is not related to this topic) and if you think your country dont have this problem then you are wrong or turning a blind eye. By the way Gharghast is also Pakistani and as per his/her posts I can see something different from yours although both of you are pashtoons.
 
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That establishment of sanctuary wasn't simply for lack of resources but reflects a calculated policy choice by the nat'l security apparatus of Pakistan.
Hogwash - and you have no way of actually validating that claim. The establishment of sanctuary was the result of a failure of the US to properly secure Afghanistan and the routes used by some of the Taliban/AQ to flee across the border, along with a complete lack of cooperation and coordination with Pakistan when those ops were being conducted.

That they escaped from Afghanistan is entirely the US's fault - Pakistan did not stop the US from taking action against them in Afghanistan then, nor does it now. We just don't want to open another war front in Pakistan while already engaged in multiple fronts, and with resources already drawn from the Eastern front where a hostile neighbor continues to sit with a military that vastly outnumbers ours and makes noises of 'limited war' and whatnot.

And as I pointed out elsewhere, Pakistan's policy towards the Afghan Taliban was consistent with its policy towards the Pakistani Taliban until the end of last year. Pakistan pursued negotiations and peace deals with both entities - those that were attacking it and those that were not.

That strategy was pursued because their was no political will or public support for military action (until the beginning of this year), and no one really found a COIN strategy under which hundreds of thousands of Pakistani troops would be tied down and the Tribal belt possibly inflamed into a 'Pashtun insurgency' an attractive option.

Did the strategy fail? With respect to the TTP in SW and Swat, yes it failed miserably, and 'PlanB' has been to resort to military force.

But my point remains that there was no 'strategic calculation or duplicity' - Pakistan's position on the issue was clear and consistent. We preferred negotiations and peace deals, with both Afghan and Pakistani Taliban, and we pursued them with both groups.
As for Konar and Nuristan, I'm sure that the GoA and its forces will get to those regions if and when.
Excellent - we should be on the same page when it comes to action in NW then - 'we will get to that region if and when'. Now please stop whining.
 
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We are sorting out our problems and we know how to do that. For this no one has the right to come up with their ideas to impose on us.

Correct I was only reminding you some facts. If i dont have the right about your country you never have the right about my country. You impose yourself on me but when i come up with a defence you cry loud. dont you remember taht you guys always play ethnic cards in afghanistan to achieve something? Tajik, Pashtoon, Uzbek this and that, dont we see this all the time from your side?

Besides indeed its up to Afghan people to love or hate anyone they want so thats why your statment about their hate or love against Pakistan and for that matter anyone were uncalled for.

yes, thats why you are afraid of a dependant afghanistan and deny democracy, if there is a democracy the result will be shocking for you.


One this clear that Afghans want the invaders out of their country simple as that.

you have no right to speak on our behalf.
 
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