Pak Navy Should Reduce The # of Subs To Buy Type 054 Frigates

[Muhammad Omar]

Hi,

So the 054 deal has been finalized----.

Now if the navy goes and gets the JH7A---it would be a real force multiplier---.

That would make it a complete navy---.

Why not J-10's

 

[syed_yusuf]

Why not J-10's

@MastanKhan -> ideal will be to get Pakistan specific variant of j16. if not j-16 then upgraded (reluctantly) jh-7b

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The sub fleet and the surface fleet in PN are tasked with two different roles. The surface fleet will be used primarily for area denial, and protection of the SLOC in the event of all out war with India.

The sub fleet on the other hand is the offensive punch of the Fleet and the strategic strike launch platform because the platforms in hand and on order are matched evenly with that of the enemy and have a pretty good chance to accomplish their given tasks.

The surface fleet lacks in certain areas viz a viz Indian naval power. And would get clobbered if they are used in an offensive role within range of Indian Air cover.

Right now with the ongoing procurement plans, PN is going to be a balanced fleet by the end of 2024....which it has never been. Brand new ships, all AIP equipped Sub force and usable strategic launch weapon and platform. After India, PN would be the most potent force in the Indian Ocean.

We do not need to chest thump but to see things in perspective of our economy, mission, and procurement opportunities. I believe PN, after a long long time, is poised to become balanced force. The only thing that needs attention is the long range fighter a/c.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The sub fleet and the surface fleet in PN are tasked with two different roles. The surface fleet will be used primarily for area denial, and protection of the SLOC in the event of all out war with India.

The sub fleet on the other hand is the offensive punch of the Fleet and the strategic strike launch platform because the platforms in hand and on order are matched evenly with that of the enemy and have a pretty good chance to accomplish their given tasks.

The surface fleet lacks in certain areas viz a viz Indian naval power. And would get clobbered if they are used in an offensive role within range of Indian Air cover.

Right now with the ongoing procurement plans, PN is going to be a balanced fleet by the end of 2024....which it has never been. Brand new ships, all AIP equipped Sub force and usable strategic launch weapon and platform. After India, PN would be the most potent force in the Indian Ocean.

We do not need to chest thump but to see things in perspective of our economy, mission, and procurement opportunities. I believe PN, after a long long time, is poised to become balanced force. The only thing that needs attention is the long range fighter a/c.

Agreed. Not to mention the low-cost OPVs (e.g. Damen OPV 1900, possibly Swift Corvette) will take on the peace time policing and coalition support duties. This means the Type 054A, F-22P and MILGEMs will more or less focus on conventional warfare scenarios, freeing them of stupid risky problems such as pirates firing RPGs at electronics and costly superstructures.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

and the overall cost of operating these larger platforms for policing duties.

 

[khanasifm]

054 engines are licenses manufactured based on French engines and are considered fuel efficient per one of the online sources

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

There is an issue with pak navy---. It does not have a potent frigate---. The F22 P are lightweight Frigates---.

The navy must have something that is heavier and more potent. The thing is that the situation in the region is changing by the day---on one side is India and on the other side is Iran coming into the game as a new player.
The Arabian sea is suddenly going to get crowded and there will be power positioning in the region. The U S navy is going to be pulling out its aircraft carrier out of the region pretty soon and with Gwadar port coming into operation---pak navy does need the presence of a stronger surface fleet.

Pakistan navy should reconsider the purchase of 8 submarine---and reduce it by 2 or 3 at this time. It should rather invest 1 billion dollars in 2 TYPE 054 Frigates and 3--4 upgraded version of Type F22P class frigates.

In 2 to 3 years from now---it can increase the order for the submarines.

For a smaller navy facing a large enemy, submarines and smaller boats are the best answer. The best analogy is the German and British navies in WW2. German subs and torpedoe boats were the most effective while their pocket battle ship were sitting ducks. We all know how long did the Bismarck and Graf Spee lasted. Also only submarines gives you third strike capability.

But still I will congratulate you as in addition to being an expert in military aviation you are now an expert on Naval issues. Not bad for a used car salesman.

 

[TOPGUN]

2 of these instead of swift would work these would be an ideal replacement for the swift ships we ordered from USA

Would make sense to get these build on the SPADA2000 deal from 90's

Would be a much better option vs the Swift Corvettes we got ordered before
The Swift ships are ok for support vessels near shore

But if Swift Order is alive , I am ok with it these can be General patrol ships

Swift deal is over my friend !!

 

[ziaulislam]

Swift deal is over my friend !!

likley true but question is where will the ships go than...one thing that is more important in US is jobs
so i will not be surpised if they end up being released

 

[Army research]

Surface fleet is necessary otherwise subs won't be able to stop large scale destruction of Karachi, this enemy is not an honourable one, it has no trouble killing own citizens nor do indo pak armies have men who served together once like in 1965 , savage times which could lead to large scale casualties in Karachi , a moral collapse could follow in civil populace , This is what the enemy wants, subs only job should be to sink their carriers, to inflict moral defeat on the enemy , But if Karachi goes hot the whole country could follow, surface fleets with stand off range missiles and air defence can hold out longer than subs in defending coastal cities

 

[MastanKhan]

For a smaller navy facing a large enemy, submarines and smaller boats are the best answer. The best analogy is the German and British navies in WW2. German subs and torpedoe boats were the most effective while their pocket battle ship were sitting ducks. We all know how long did the Bismarck and Graf Spee lasted. Also only submarines gives you third strike capability.

But still I will congratulate you as in addition to being an expert in military aviation you are now an expert on Naval issues. Not bad for a used car salesman.

Hi,

If an insurance salesman could turn the world of the soviet russia upside down in the 80's---then it should come as no surprise if a car salesman has a say in these issues---.

Someone giving an example of 2nd world war sub warfare---could not be considered too intelligent---.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

likley true but question is where will the ships go than...one thing that is more important in US is jobs
so i will not be surpised if they end up being released

Ships weren't built in the first place. Anyways, the Swift Corvette was sought for exactly (literally word-for-word) the same role as the Damen OPV 1900. If additional ships of that kind are needed, they'll likely be Damen ships.

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

If an insurance salesman could turn the world of the soviet russia upside down in the 80's---then it should come as no surprise if a car salesman has a say in these issues---.

Someone giving an example of 2nd world war sub warfare---could not be considered too intelligent---.

My dear friend, in military staff colleges analogies with ancient, medieval and modern battles are discussed because these analogies are relevant. Further, the subcontinent warfare is not to far from WW2.

 

[MastanKhan]

For a smaller navy facing a large enemy, submarines and smaller boats are the best answer. The best analogy is the German and British navies in WW2. German subs and torpedoe boats were the most effective while their pocket battle ship were sitting ducks. We all know how long did the Bismarck and Graf Spee lasted. Also only submarines gives you third strike capability.

But still I will congratulate you as in addition to being an expert in military aviation you are now an expert on Naval issues. Not bad for a used car salesman.

Youngman,

You need to show a little more intelligence in your post---. The examples of 2nd world war are out dated for submarine warfare---.

After the subs fire the first shot---the diesel / electric boats are sitting ducks---

My dear friend, in military staff colleges analogies with ancient, medieval and modern battles are discussed because these analogies are relevant. Further, the subcontinent warfare is not to far from WW2.

Hi,

Indeed all battles are discussed---but that does not mean that you would have the intellect or the ability to understand---.

Now---go away and bug someone else---.

 

[The Diplomat]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) does Pakistan have a nuclear triad with its current naval fleet? Pakistan has successfully tested the Babur SLCM from the Agosta-90B and has the means of delivering nuclear armed missiles through air (Raad) and by land (Shaheen-III), right? That makes Pakistan a nuclear triad, capable of delivering a second strike?

Thanks