Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

[Mav3rick]

Well can you tell me your PAK Army position at kargil at the time as per you, your politicians gave in, in fact your army has asked politicians to save their face in overall defeat in font of world, by the time your politicians gone to US IA already taken 75% of peaks and remaining 25 % will also be taken soon as major surrounding peaks already taken.

and your Country politicians don't do anything which your PAK army don't ask them to. Even single decision was taken by Pak Army........ get your thoughts clear.... that why your Army didnt released the Kargil report that was made by civilians leadership.

If you honestly want me to tell you cause you are just that ignorant or lazy to look up the facts yourself or are so surrounded by claims of false bravado, propaganda that the real information is buried out of your reach then let me tell you that by the time NS was summoned to Washington, IA had not been able to dislodge Pakistan from more then 15%-20% positions despite sending in 8 soldiers to every Pakistani fighter plus 10 squadrons of Air Force!

And just for your understanding, Musharraf took off his Military uniform which let to his eventual loss of power and ultimate downfall, and he took off that uniform on US dictation. No wonder who it is at the top, they all follow American diktat, Army albeit with some resistance.

 

[ares]

If you honestly want me to tell you cause you are just that ignorant or lazy to look up the facts yourself or are so surrounded by claims of false bravado, propaganda that the real information is buried out of your reach then let me tell you that by the time NS was summoned to Washington, IA had not been able to dislodge Pakistan from more then 15%-20% positions despite sending in 8 soldiers to every Pakistani fighter plus 10 squadrons of Air Force!

And just for your understanding, Musharraf took off his Military uniform which let to his eventual loss of power and ultimate downfall, and he took off that uniform on US dictation. No wonder who it is at the top, they all follow American diktat, Army albeit with some resistance.

Since you don't want to listen to Indians ..hoping you would listen to your own general, who were in the thick of things back then.

In above video, the Pakistani general explains how Musharraff literally begged Nawaz Sharif to go to Washington and save Pakistan and its troops, from the situation he had gotten them into.

 

[Markus]

If Kargil was a victory of Pakistan then someone must go and tell the Pakistan army to update its website about its operations in Kargil.

Pakistan Army

The website mentions nothing about Kargil.

If you have accomplished a major operation in Kargil (as you people claim), then why not publish it in the website for the world to see ?

 

[karan.1970]

Really ? What makes you believe that corrupt Nawaz who looted billions during his tenure as the PM of Pakistan and put the country into a state of imminent financial collapse in 1999 , a man who had personal grudges to settle with the army and hence came up with a near impossible and believed only by the naive figure of 4000+ casualties ? Just because it suits you , huh ?

Musharraf's a fugitive ? For political reasons and nothing else ... He's blamed for killing a traitor in Baluchistan who wanted unlimited royalty , a man under who's leadership Pakistan's economy and image in the international arena grew exponentially !
Believe me , he can still come and live in Pakistan and the courts cant do jack **** against him ...

Whom do we believe now ?

So in your definition, a criminal with clout automatically becomes trustworthy ... ??

Nice..

The fact is we liberated territory that was under indian occupation, Peak 5353 was previously held by india.



I know the exact ORBAT of the troops that fought in the conflict, it comes to less than 4,000 - there goes NS's credibility -just because he was won elections with more than 100% votes cast, does not mean it is the case in Military affairs. Of those who fought in the conflict less than 350 were KIA.

toone kaha aur maine maan liya... ? whodafuk are you..?? Just an anonymous face with zero credibility...Nawaz sharif, what ever he is, is still a million times more credible than you...

 

[Amolthebest]

Losing or winning the war is not in our hands but not accepting your soldiers dead body is really shameful. No offence.

 

[AUz]

Losing or winning the war is not in our hands but not accepting your soldiers dead body is really shameful. No offence.

Bhartis will keep repeating this stupid mantra.

We accepted our soldiers...the bodies you burried were hardcore 'Mujahideens' ...

 

[karan.1970]

Bhartis will keep repeating this stupid mantra.

We accepted our soldiers...the bodies you burried were hardcore 'Mujahideens' ...

And in this see from 6:30 on how Indian Military cornered and started eliminating Pakistani army well before American got involved.. And how many soldiers who died, even their bodies didnt make it back..

................................

 

[Mav3rick]

If Kargil was a victory of Pakistan then someone must go and tell the Pakistan army to update its website about its operations in Kargil.

Pakistan Army

The website mentions nothing about Kargil.

If you have accomplished a major operation in Kargil (as you people claim), then why not publish it in the website for the world to see ?

The reason is quite apparent, it's pathetic that it's not evident to you.

Bhartis will keep repeating this stupid mantra.

We accepted our soldiers...the bodies you burried were hardcore 'Mujahideens' ...

Most likely not even Mujahideen but random targets from their fake encounters!

Since you don't want to listen to Indians ..hoping you would listen to your own general, who were in the thick of things back then.

In above video, the Pakistani general explains how Musharraff literally begged Nawaz Sharif to go to Washington and save Pakistan and its troops, from the situation he had gotten them into.

Repetitions cannot win you false arguments, Many of the videos posted by you Indians have been from 3D's (discredited, disgraced and disgruntled ex employees) of Pak Military. One of the most decorated fighter who not only lead the elite spy agency of the country but also served in the elite special forces (SSG), someone who fought and bled for his country atleast twice against India and one who was the commander at the time of Kargil has stated many times what really happened in Kargil and how desperate the Indians were.

 

[karan.1970]

If Kargil was a victory of Pakistan then someone must go and tell the Pakistan army to update its website about its operations in Kargil.

Pakistan Army

The website mentions nothing about Kargil.

If you have accomplished a major operation in Kargil (as you people claim), then why not publish it in the website for the world to see ?

a thief never advertizes the heists he attempted and got caught it.. Similarly , here, Pakistan, who attempted a heist by sending in its soldiers and disowning them when got caught out, has no moral ground to publicly admit the ownership of this operation. Because till the very end they keep on claiming that its the mujahiddins and not Pakistani soldiers that got slaughtered and defeated. Go thru the interview below. Specially from 30:00 ... He talks about how Pakistani army put the defeat on the heads of Mujahiddins which ticked even them off and led to spoilt relations between Pakistan and Kashmiri militants..

And then post 32:00 on how Kargil led to permanent delegitimization of Pakistan's stance on Kashmir

 

[abhishekgoel80]

You lot should know, you've been sticking your hands up in the air for 1,000 plus years, and handing your princess's over. Carry on - look forward to the next time.

Conceded you were great masters for 1000 years (though pakistan is still a poor state more poor tan their ex-slaves). You are still taking the princesses e.g. Sania (though they continue to be Indian "Mirza are supposed decendant of the kings").

Now be happy now can you express whats the point of your discussion

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

it is laughable that Pakistanis claim partition like a big victory over rest of India .. but infact even a school boy will know partition means you you did not wanted to be part of larger India so you have given a fair share of land where you used to live on mutual agreement and terms and conditions.

if I go by your logic tomorrow you will shout in front of your parents and brothers house and tell look we managed to divide your property .

and by bringing up 1000 years Islamic rule and all you are just humiliating your forefathers , and your fellow Pakistanis more than Indians. it shows your confusion , and insecurity complex regarding who you really are .. one hand you people claim to be ICV Generations , on the other hand you just dis own your entire culture and heritage and trying to be a part of Persian war loads , you try to portray their wins , atrocitys over your own ancestors as a heroic act..shame on you confused minds.

another funny argument is Bangalies used India to liberate east Pakistan.. yes they used our help and we used the opportunity and. their man power..so it was mutually beneficial.. but who is going to listen.. two pages after you will repeat the same argument shamelessly.


by the time we reached withdrawal settlement from pak side we have already captured 70% of territory.

and if for an argument sake even if we did. capture. less than 50% only .. diplomatically we won and you people also agree that . you says militarily pak won but diplomatically India won. what is the use of a military win if our diplomatic win over throw your military win.. Indian diplomatic win means your military win (as per your argument ) become useless .

 

[ares]

Repetitions cannot win you false arguments, Many of the videos posted by you Indians have been from 3D's (discredited, disgraced and disgruntled ex employees) of Pak Military. One of the most decorated fighter who not only lead the elite spy agency of the country but also served in the elite special forces (SSG), someone who fought and bled for his country atleast twice against India and one who was the commander at the time of Kargil has stated many times what really happened in Kargil and how desperate the Indians were.

Problem is you guys have buried your heads so far up... that any one, who does not concur with your fairy tale events automatically becomes a 3 D..forget about believing Indian commentators or Neutral commentators ..even Pakistani generals who were in the thick of the events as they unfolded become liars..and Musharraf who is a proven liar(he never even accepted that Pakistani soldiers were involved in he conflict in the first place) becomes a proverbial Nishan-e-haider.

Any Pakistani with an ounce of sense will tell you, what a big disaster Kargil proved for Pakistan..how humiliating, embarrassing situation had become when your PM had to fly to US on 4th if July, to save you from the mess you had landed yourselves in.
But I guess you are from the other lot, who believes in blowing its own trumpet, no matter the results.

Please do elucidate, what did you win in Kargil war.

Off the 140 odd peaks you captured, you lost all but one of them.

You failed 99% of your objectives despite having the surprise and height advantage and suffered heavy casualties.

Your then prime minister had to face intense humiliation in the white house, where he had to go to find a face saving way exit for your army.

You did irreparable damage to your Kashmir cause and manage to forever correlate it to cross border infiltration and terrorism.

You were caught lying with your pants down, even your best friends refused to come to rescue. Now Have less than zero credibility in the international arena.

SO tell me again, what did you win in the Kargil war??

 

[K-Xeroid]

it is laughable that Pakistanis claim partition like a big victory over rest of India .. but infact even a school boy will know partition means you you did not wanted to be part of larger India so you have given a fair share of land where you used to live on mutual agreement and terms and conditions.

if I go by your logic tomorrow you will shout in front of your parents and brothers house and tell look we managed to divide your property .

and by bringing up 1000 years Islamic rule and all you are just humiliating your forefathers , and your fellow Pakistanis more than Indians. it shows your confusion , and insecurity complex regarding who you really are .. one hand you people claim to be ICV Generations , on the other hand you just dis own your entire culture and heritage and trying to be a part of Persian war loads , you try to portray their wins , atrocitys over your own ancestors as a heroic act..shame on you confused minds.

another funny argument is Bangalies used India to liberate east Pakistan.. yes they used our help and we used the opportunity and. their man power..so it was mutually beneficial.. but who is going to listen.. two pages after you will repeat the same argument shamelessly.


by the time we reached withdrawal settlement from pak side we have already captured 70% of territory.

and if for an argument sake even if we did. capture. less than 50% only .. diplomatically we won and you people also agree that . you says militarily pak won but diplomatically India won. what is the use of a military win if our diplomatic win over throw your military win.. Indian diplomatic win means your military win (as per your argument ) become useless .

Well ! you may not consider it but it was diplomatic defeat of your founding fathers , at the time of before independence they were fully against the demands of Pakistan, most of British india administration were belongs from current india origin, while Pakistan's origin were ignored at then , The demands of muslims rights (seperation of Bengal , seperate electorial campaign, 1\3 representation on cabnet, central and local level etc) weren't accepted by congressmen and Britishers at then which lead us to demand partition at then.

Pakistanis and seperate tribes here aren't confused about theirselves But Indians seems to be, as their claim continues to change according to their psyche conditions , You are still combining seperate heritages of Pakistan as its reflects your Lack of knowledge on subject which you are trying to discuss here. Atrocities were part of local Dharmic Raja's culture , they got massive armies at then too but Failed against our armies and became Slaves of us. even after different time intervals They tried their level best but again incompetent against real art.

Bengalis were your part before partition and were our part before liberation, Indeed your millions of soldiers were the resistance provider against 48000 Soldiers and rest of all administrative units, InFact they consider I.Gandhi hero at then, but wat happens later? She supported Tamilians terrorism in Lanka , stabbed by her own gaurd as reaction of blue star. Decrease in intensity of ties with Bangladesh, even they seeks China as their major partner? Even now you hate Bangladeshis those who had migrated to india. (as an ally you should've supported them till the end) .

Kargil : 12 posts out of 134 accoring to your hardcore sources and 4 posts according to neutral sources you managed to captured, all and all it was your intellegence Failure, IAF didn't performed according to missions , Lost of soldiers , specially in 14th june attack on pt 4590. Total incompetency in Batalik sector , and still failed to secure NH-1D. Is that called Vijay diwas?

 

[MilSpec]

The fact is we liberated territory that was under indian occupation, Peak 5353 was previously held by india.



I know the exact ORBAT of the troops that fought in the conflict, it comes to less than 4,000 - there goes NS's credibility -just because he was won elections with more than 100% votes cast, does not mean it is the case in Military affairs. Of those who fought in the conflict less than 350 were KIA.

have you heard the views of your three star ex- Airmarshal on the topic. Comback to earth now.

 

[Vinod2070]

Since you don't want to listen to Indians ..hoping you would listen to your own general, who were in the thick of things back then.

In above video, the Pakistani general explains how Musharraff literally begged Nawaz Sharif to go to Washington and save Pakistan and its troops, from the situation he had gotten them into.

There is no doubt about the military outcome as well as diplomatic isolation and the resulting fall from grace and slide down of the country in the international arena.

Some people may chose to deny both "Ankhon dekhi and kano suni" but that doesn't change anything.