What's new

Pak may never try another Kargil, but it could get worse

^^^ the guy's a Pakistani Lt General, so a lop sided view is imminent - Kargil misadventure was a grand screw up by Pakistan and India made sure that Pakistan paid dearly for it.

Nothing astonishing in that whitewashing about Kargil, it looks same when Operation Gibraltar was omitted from Pakistani textbooks. At the end of the day, it took Pakistan so many years to acknowledge participation in Kargil which shows it was a humiliating defeat for Pakistan.
 
Nothing astonishing in that whitewashing about Kargil, it looks same when Operation Gibraltar was omitted from Pakistani textbooks. At the end of the day, it took Pakistan so many years to acknowledge participation in Kargil which shows it was a humiliating defeat for Pakistan.

The Kargil misadventure was called operation Badr and the funny thing was the PA General's who orchestrated this failure had the tenacity to take power after the monumental disaster - no questions asked and no answers given.
 
There was India, a large and powerful country on its way to dominating and controlling South Asia and beyond by force of arms with some support and nods from the West, was unable to eject a few hundred Mujahideen, the Kashmiri freedom fighters from the heights of Kargil inspite of moving a disproportionately large number of troops, guns and fighter aircraft to the area.

Now all of us know who they were. :meeting:
 
And I wonder why it is so hard for you to understand that NS commanded so much power that nothing could have moved behind him. He was well aware of Kargil plan. I have always admired India's diplomatic machinery but as I have already stated in an earlier post, we have not been as blessed as India in our civilian leaders. No wonder we look to the Military whenever in deep ****. You want a simple example, look at statements issued by NS on Kargil, he declared that Pakistan lost somewhere around 4k soldiers where as even Indian figures for casualties on Pakistani side top at around 1k. These are the civilian leaders that we have, no wonder Musharraf routed NS's tyrant *** to SA.

You are correct that we should have calculated the international response and perhaps we did but incorrectly, especially the reaction from US which was very demoralizing for the civilian Government as they forced us to back off instead of lending any support to Kashmir cause.

Whenever I look back at Kargil, I wonder if we should have done that when the Soviets started withdrawing from Afghanistan as then the US would have been forced to help us politically internationally.



Please have a look at the earlier posts, have a look at my earlier posts in which I personally have explained the reason and planning behind Kargil. It was never meant to be more then a few thousand fighters because of tactical and political reasons. If you understand what was planned and achieved, you would stop statements on poor tactics and organization, plans etc.

no civilian govt in Pakistan can take a decision that too important strategic decision to with draw army with out the consent of pak army chief ..I am dead sure if nawaz sherif order the troops to with draw without musharafs consent he will be shown a middle finger nothing else.

Fact is your army was loosing the battle after initial gains and international pressure also was building up .. so if nawaz sherif has cut a deal with Americans it is 100% with the awareNess of your general..

and if still you believe that nawaz with drawn the troop with out the consent of general mushraf and pak army followed nawaz's orders and ignored musharaf then my friend you are in delusion and denial .
 
Sorry for the delayed reply i missed your post, My question was NS and Pakistan could have kept the deceit and the lies alive like feigning ignorance of PA's activity by the Government and secondly lying that they were not army but Mujahadeen, if Pakistan would have stood steadfast with the lies then the diplomatic and political pressure could have been withstood and Pakistan could have maintained the act of ignorance to reduce outward pressure - what gave way? the CIA or RAW investigations? then too the administration could have escaped with the customary show us the proof act. There had to be some other theory to Pakistan's complete capitulation.

I guess some things happened that were beyond the scope of ordinary Mujahideen armed with AK-47's and RPG's. Most important, most likely, was the downing of a military helicopter and a couple of Migs. The excuse could only have been plausible for so long. I mean, Mujahideen were there right? So basically Pakistan never really lied, they simply gave half the truth. I guess even Clinton coerced NS to use PA's influence on the Mujahideen to force a retreat. What we know for certain is that Pakistan was isolated diplomatically and was forced to withdraw fighters.

India won a war on diplomatic grounds after losing all the military battles. I would call it a victory for India because Pakistan failed to achieve the diplomatic/political targets despite gaining military victories.

And by the way, this is the same NS that claims that he tested the Nuclear Bomb when the whole world is aware how opposed he was to the idea and how he was forced by even his own political team to test it.

You tell me dude.. Its Pakistanis who are not able to make up their mind whether they came out of India in 1947 or were established by Qasim in 700 AD.. Let me know when this confusion clears up in your mind and then we can discuss this.. :lol:

It is sad that you cannot distinguished periods from history that are demarcated by major events. And it is even more sad that your best defense is to bring gibberish events to take the focus off the main topic. Typical.



Ha Ha.. So thats your excuse for going for a rerun.. That you were violated by a super power and that made it all right :rofl:

Yeah well, atleast I have the guts to accept the truth.

^^^ the guy's a Ex Pakistani Lt General, so a lop sided view is imminent :lol:- Kargil misadventure was a grand screw up by Pakistan and India made sure that Pakistan paid dearly for it.

Lol......and lop sided views from 1.5 Billion Indians is acceptable however concocted those views be?
 
Nothing astonishing in that whitewashing about Kargil, it looks same when Operation Gibraltar was omitted from Pakistani textbooks. At the end of the day, it took Pakistan so many years to acknowledge participation in Kargil which shows it was a humiliating defeat for Pakistan.

Actually, at the end of the day as you Indians are still reeling from the *** kicking you got in Kargil and all previous wars, all you can really do is ignore ground facts! But kid, calling the day a night and vice versa would only make people make fun of you. The moment NS was forced to withdraw the forces from Kargil by the US, it was the moment we accepted that we were involved in Kargil.

The Kargil misadventure was called operation Badr and the funny thing was the PA General's who orchestrated this failure had the tenacity to take power after the monumental disaster - no questions asked and no answers given.

What would any other general do who won the military war but lost the political war because of a spineless civilian leader?

no civilian govt in Pakistan can take a decision that too important strategic decision to with draw army with out the consent of pak army chief ..I am dead sure if nawaz sherif order the troops to with draw without musharafs consent he will be shown a middle finger nothing else.

Fact is your army was loosing the battle after initial gains and international pressure also was building up .. so if nawaz sherif has cut a deal with Americans it is 100% with the awareNess of your general..

and if still you believe that nawaz with drawn the troop with out the consent of general mushraf and pak army followed nawaz's orders and ignored musharaf then my friend you are in delusion and denial .

On the one hand you guys tell us how much we are under US influence and then you tell us that we can afford to say 'NO' to the US. Make up your minds man! Let me ask you a very simple question, if Musharraf was aware of NS's commitment to the US and a part of it, then what was the reason of the fallout b/w him and NS?
 
I guess some things happened that were beyond the scope of ordinary Mujahideen armed with AK-47's and RPG's. Most important, most likely, was the downing of a military helicopter and a couple of Migs. The excuse could only have been plausible for so long. I mean, Mujahideen were there right? So basically Pakistan never really lied, they simply gave half the truth. I guess even Clinton coerced NS to use PA's influence on the Mujahideen to force a retreat. What we know for certain is that Pakistan was isolated diplomatically and was forced to withdraw fighters.

India won a war on diplomatic grounds after losing all the military battles. I would call it a victory for India because Pakistan failed to achieve the diplomatic/political targets despite gaining military victories.

And by the way, this is the same NS that claims that he tested the Nuclear Bomb when the whole world is aware how opposed he was to the idea and how he was forced by even his own political team to test it.



It is sad that you cannot distinguished periods from history that are demarcated by major events. And it is even more sad that your best defense is to bring gibberish events to take the focus off the main topic. Typical.





Yeah well, atleast I have the guts to accept the truth.



Lol......and lop sided views from 1.5 Billion Indians is acceptable however concocted those views be?

Check this out, Investigating Kargil: op-ed by Taj M Khattak in The News, July 2 | vazeerm.com
Now, do you still believe they were mujaheddin. Don't think so.

kashifkhalilpowerpoint.jpg


pickarnalsherpower.jpg
 
RazPak bhai bas karo....kya saari kasar aaj hi nikaal doge, sone do masoomon ko....chod do yaar.....:enjoy:


I don't evrn understand what more is left to discuss. All sensible Pakistanis should disengage from this thread immediately.
 
I don't evrn understand what more is left to discuss. All sensible Pakistanis should disengage from this thread immediately.
Lets start with you.....leave their discussion as no one is going to admit anything. Yo know that, I know that..
 
Actually, at the end of the day as you Indians are still reeling from the *** kicking you got in Kargil and all previous wars, all you can really do is ignore ground facts! But kid, calling the day a night and vice versa would only make people make fun of you. The moment NS was forced to withdraw the forces from Kargil by the US, it was the moment we accepted that we were involved in Kargil.



What would any other general do who won the military war but lost the political war because of a spineless civilian leader?



On the one hand you guys tell us how much we are under US influence and then you tell us that we can afford to say 'NO' to the US. Make up your minds man! Let me ask you a very simple question, if Musharraf was aware of NS's commitment to the US and a part of it, then what was the reason of the fallout b/w him and NS?

yes you can't say no to the Americans in many matters where Americas has prime interest ..that includes your civilian govt as well as the army also ..

the reason for coup is blame game between musharaf and nawaz regarding kargil defeat and power struggle ..
in that also mush proved powerful even when he was out of the country.
 
Actually, at the end of the day as you Indians are still reeling from the *** kicking you got in Kargil and all previous wars, all you can really do is ignore ground facts! But kid, calling the day a night and vice versa would only make people make fun of you. The moment NS was forced to withdraw the forces from Kargil by the US, it was the moment we accepted that we were involved in Kargil.

That's not true.
 
Actually, at the end of the day as you Indians are still reeling from the *** kicking you got in Kargil and all previous wars, all you can really do is ignore ground facts! But kid, calling the day a night and vice versa would only make people make fun of you. The moment NS was forced to withdraw the forces from Kargil by the US, it was the moment we accepted that we were involved in Kargil.

:lol: never pictured you to have a sense of humor.. :rofl:

Look around yourself and think.. Who is reeling.. ??
 
Back
Top Bottom