Pak may be fabricating trial story of 'dead' Kulbhushan Jadhav: Former union home secy

[lastofthepatriots]

@Oscar @The Eagle

I'm not even sure why you guys are taking Bhartis r. Rona so seriously.

It's obvious they are upset that their spy from Phantom film was caught and is going to hang for murder, espionage, and terrorism.

Forum rules and pretending to be more knowledgeable regarding forum policies are all desperate semantics for their frustration.

Regarding Kulbushan, he's a dead man. There is no amount of Bhartis tears that can save him from his fate.

 

[Prince of Dorne]

You are my friend and humsafar.... let us not detail this thread further

WTH .

Sorry, I am not that good with hindi but doesn't it mean life partner with whom you are romantically involved?

Apologies for being off topic btw, couldn't resist.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

WTH .

Sorry, I am not that good with hindi but doesn't it mean life partner with whom you are romantically involved?

Apologies for being off topic btw, couldn't resist.

Humsafar means fellow traveller.

 

[SQ8]

Humsafar means fellow traveller.

Dont blame him, his only exposure to the word humsafar is from Bollywood who use it in the romantic sense.

 

[Spring Onion]

He was supposedly tried by a field gen. court martial of the army, which means he was tried by a military jury, not trained in law and which is not independent or impartial and that which works under the Pak army.

And why you think he should have been tried in a civilian court?? on basis of what reasons ??

He was supposedly tried by a field gen. court martial of the army, which means he was tried by a military jury, not trained in law and which is not independent or impartial and that which works under the Pak army.

And why you think he should have been tried in a civilian court?? on basis of what reasons ??

 

[Prince of Dorne]

Dont blame him, his only exposure to the word humsafar is from Bollywood who use it in the romantic sense.

True, whatever little Hindi I speak learned from Bollywood, hope that doesn't make me a lesser being amongst the uber intellectual people here

 

[Prince of Dorne]

Humsafar means fellow traveller.

Thank you

It does. Kill yourself and other Indian citizens in a chemical dosa attack.

Putting extra efforts to be funny today? Your jokes are sick not funny btw.

Please don't derail this thread

 

[The SC]

I tailor my response to the poster- be it a post or warning. Unfortunately, it does leave the chance for "guilty till proven innocent " but for someone with 26+ warnings- I believe some bias is allowed


That is their perspective and it is absurd. Yes, some due process as been skipped per their view but since this man is considered an enemy combatant and NOT a civilian- the military has the right to apply its law.

I believe Pakistan military law has similar clauses as the following

The US Manual for Military Commissions (2007), Part IV, Crimes and Elements, includes in the list of crimes triable by military commissions:
SPYING.
a. Text. “Any person subject to this chapter who with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign power, collects or attempts to collect information by clandestine means or while acting under false pretenses, for the purpose of conveying such information to an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a military commission under this chapter may direct.”
b. Elements.
(1) The accused collected or attempted to collect certain information by clandestine means or while acting under false pretenses;
(2) The accused intended or had reason to believe the information collected would be used to injure the United States or to provide an advantage to a foreign power;
(3) The accused intended to convey such information to an enemy of the United States or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy; and
(4) The conduct took place in the context of and was associated with armed conflict.
c. Maximum punishment. Death.

They have to present their country and its actions in the best light- they will try whatever misdirection or semantics they can, however ridiculous, fabricated or hypocritical they are. As long as these are civil, our rules and more importantly our morals compel us to let them be at it.

There are similar rules here in Canada too, but since Canada does not have a death penalty anymore, a military spy who has caused damage to the nation will be sentenced to life for every accusation that was proved against him, meaning he will never get out of high security jails.. It is a bit worst than a death penalty in some regards.. I also lived in the US and I am aware of that law.. I refrained from answering post#20 because I thought he was ignorant of these laws, and made baseless remarks..

 

[The Eagle]

Dear sir,

I i have caused a forum policy violation then please do educate, but please refrain from trying to teach me on how my narrative needs to be shaped. I will voice my opinion in the context I want to without violating norms, if you want come up with new forum policies such as no criticism of any institutions by any foreign national no matter the how ridiculous the actions are, you are more than welcome to do so.

And as far as criticizing institutions, I have criticized Indian, pakistani, iranian, US institutions on this forums openly without ever have to see this response, so to me you are setting a precedent here.

As I haven't been too active here, So I would indeed like some clarification from as the other member pointed out previous post did mention, separate sets of discriminatory rules for forum members.

Pakistani members will have a different set of rules to abide by compared to Indians, are there any more discriminatory guidelines that we need to know based on nationality, religion, race etc that have been established on the forum.

@WebMaster how about creating a new set of rules and guidelines as the Moderator infers here by nationality and probably other credentials.

Respected Sir,

It is true that everyone can criticize the xyz subject but until & unless, does not disrespect. Productive & constructive criticism is the part of the debate and the same is the beauty of the forum discussion. What other member said, is not the policy until & unless it comes from Forum Administration. The rules are common and are being applied without any difference. There are no different Rules for Pakistani or any other nationals at all but all are being treated with the same set of Forum Rules as & when a member despite any flag, violates the rule. If you found such posts, kindly report the same without quoting back or engaging and move-on as you will see the result as well.

Disrespect is never being the part of any productive or constructive discussion at all. Rest about teaching you or someone, that is indeed not my responsibility nor plausible that I know hence, I do expect the same moral value from others as well. It is good to see you active and also, being a Title Holder/Part of Analysis Team, you have the responsibility as well to help maintain the Forum environment more friendly and productive like me and others, by stopping others from violation as well as helping Mods/Admins to maintain the quality.

Rest about the action of Military Court, if we don't have any proof, evidence, copy of judgment, the proceeding, cross-examination of the accused, examine in chief details, arguments & counter arguments, evidences and annexures provided in case filed by the parties involved, the submission note, legal objections etc, then how come one can conclude the same as partial, biased, not trained well etc, at all. The institute is in more knowledge than us, w.r.t. case proceedings and handling of such matters. A judgment can only be criticized as & when we have a copy of the same yet in this matter, only Order has been announced but details are awaited. Now on the basis of same while having no details, insulting the Institution/Nation, is not plausible nor ethical at all. However, disrespect to any member/nationality/ethnicity/religion etc, is not allowed at all, therefore, I will repeat again that if you see as such, do report the same.

Regards,

 

[HRK]

You have responsibility just a little misjudgnent by dear @HRK i guess.

May I ask
1- WHAT DOES "JAG BRANCH" in DEFENCE FORCES DO ... ??
2- May I know if they are not TRAINED IN LAW then WHY DOES IT EXIST in arm forces all around the world including INDIAN DEFENCE FORCES ....??
3- I would also like to know the bases upon which one member can claim that JAG branch personals are not trained in Law ....??? (Particularly in reference to Pakistan's Arms forces )
4- & if that MEMBER is happen to be a SENIOR MODERATOR of a DEFENCE FORUM (as claimed by some just few pots above) than what should one consider .
Options:
a- That SENIOR MODERATOR (of a different forum) is not aware about the function of JAG Branch ...??
b- That senior moderator is stating it (repeatedly) with certain motives & purposes ... ??

So plz don't make guess about my judgment ....

Regards,

 

[randomradio]

Mastan Khan is Pakistani and have all the rights to criticise any institution of Pakistan if he feels there is something wrong with it. Indians or any non Pakistani doesn't have this right on our forum. We cannot tolerate any non Pakistani ridiculing any of our institution.

As far as I know, Mastan Khan isn't Pakistani. He is American.

 

[randomradio]

@Serpentine are there Taliban in Iran as the diplomats half baked information implies?

Naturally. The Taliban presence isn't as much as along the Pak border, but it's there.

Here's one in Herat.
http://www.voanews.com/a/foreigners-attacked-in-afghanistan/3448943.html

In fact, some elements within the Iranian govt are funding the Taliban.
http://www.mei.edu/content/is/iranian-delegation-reportedly-visited-helmand-deliver-weapons-taliban

May I ask
1- WHAT DOES "JAG BRANCH" in DEFENCE FORCES DO ... ??
2- May I know if they are not TRAINED IN LAW then WHY DOES IT EXIST in arm forces all around the world including INDIAN DEFENCE FORCES ....??
3- I would also like to know the bases upon which one member can claim that JAG branch personals are not trained in Law ....??? (Particularly in reference to Pakistan's Arms forces )
4- & if that MEMBER is happen to be a SENIOR MODERATOR of a DEFENCE FORUM (as claimed by some just few pots above) than what should one consider .
Options:
a- That SENIOR MODERATOR (of a different forum) is not aware about the function of JAG Branch ...??
b- That senior moderator is stating it (repeatedly) with certain motives & purposes ... ??

So plz don't make guess about my judgment ....

Regards,

You are supposed to try him in a civilian court.

 

[utraash]

High possibility of Jhadav would have been already hanged & this entire drama was to cover up the premeditated murder.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan should hang Kulbushan Yadev publicly at Wahga Border, this will tell Indians that he was alive and punished for his crimes.

Happy Now?

It is clear that it is difficult for you to speak decently about Indians, whatever the subject, whatever the context. I am happy to put you on my ignore list.

 

[Levina]

Not an opinion but disrespecting PA which is totally uncalled for. If you aren't aware of such system/procedure then it is appropriate not to comment with speculation.

My post was an opinion that was formed after i read many NEUTRAL sources condemning the army courts from your side. I put forward the article and quotes which shaped my POV

1. The sunset clause has come under fire from your own opposition parties who want civilian judges to be included in the panel of judges in the army court, this is an indicator that neither the government nor the army has been able to convince everyone about the proceedings of military court.

2. The main objection has so far been that in 94.5 per cent of these cases most of them were convicted on the basis of confessions, this despite the fact that in regular murder cases, convictions on the basis of judicial confessions aren't even 5 percent in Pakistan. In many cases family members of the accused had alleged that their relatives were coerced into confessing, were not given access to lawyers of their choice, or to the evidence being used against them.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...y-courts-terror-suspects-170321143432673.html





3. Now, Kulbhushan,RAW agent according to Pak army was arrested on 3rd march 2016. But was tried in the army court. While 3 suspected RAW agents, were tried and acquitted by a civilian court, 23rd october 2016. This gives enough space for the arguments of layman like me questioning KJ's trial.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1291602





4. Infact, the military courts were vehemently opposed by the lawyers of Pakistan, for it being against the constitution itself. So me as an Indian questioning the same is no way disrespectful to your institutions. I had specifically cited "training" of those involved as for sure those in army courts arent as experienced and trained as the civilian lawyers.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1160372



***********************************

She did not refer to us to get our intervention.

There is nothing that she has written is false.... Everything is true.... it may not be soothing to your ears and eyes.... but it doesn't deserve a negative rating......

Ok lets examine what you conceive as ridicule:
He was supposedly tried by a field gen.- Fact
Court martial of the army, which means he was tried by a military jury - Fact
not trained in law and which is not independent or impartial and that which works under the Pak army - Inference
Please point to which part of these arguments and inferences are insults to your Army.

I had tagged some knowledgeable Indians and Pakistanis like you all and @WAJsal ,@Arsalan , who I'm sure are used to my tagging them to posts where i need a second opinion. Thank you.

***************************************

I believe Pakistan military law has similar clauses as the following

1. This is your assumption sir.
2. You have to accept the fact that military courts in US and Pakistan do NOT function in similar ways. So in no way your quoting US Manual for Military Commissions helps the point we're discussing.

******************************************

May I ask
1- WHAT DOES "JAG BRANCH" in DEFENCE FORCES DO ... ??
2- May I know if they are not TRAINED IN LAW then WHY DOES IT EXIST in arm forces all around the world including INDIAN DEFENCE FORCES ....??
3- I would also like to know the bases upon which one member can claim that JAG branch personals are not trained in Law ....??? (Particularly in reference to Pakistan's Arms forces )
4- & if that MEMBER is happen to be a SENIOR MODERATOR of a DEFENCE FORUM (as claimed by some just few pots above) than what should one consider .
Options:
a- That SENIOR MODERATOR (of a different forum) is not aware about the function of JAG Branch ...??
b- That senior moderator is stating it (repeatedly) with certain motives & purposes ... ??
So plz don't make guess about my judgment ....
Regards,

Bringing this to your notice @The Eagle @WebMaster @Slav Defence , 5 pages on this thread the member who marked me negative has yet to give his POV on the subject and also justify his action. I do NOT hold any personal grudge against him, for i look forward to having a discussion on this forum as much as you do. But i object to stifling the debate by marking my post negative for reasons known better only to the member.
I for one post an opinion on this forum after making sufficient research on the topic. 3 years on this forum and i have written many original articles, hence the 59 positive ratings in my profile. I assume that's enough to prove the reason I still exist on the forum.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Regards