Pak incapable of action against terror: Pranab

[pama]

And what exactly is "very recent"?
Also, Pakistan went through alot of political reform and turmoil, which didn't do us any good in our fight against these radicals.
Why weren't we succesful? Was the U.S. "aid" any succesful? Did the U.S. fully provide Pakistan of everything it needs to fight off these pigs?
Did Pakistan receive the right aid a 3rd world country needs to maintain a stable economy and at the same time wage a very costly war which gains public distrust among Pakistani people?
How things are different now? I think the Taliban now knows that it's just a matter of time before they're out of business, Pakistan has sacrificed alot, and is continuing to do so, we will not stop until this menace is destroyed.
These drones are not helping that much, why is that?
They might hit their targets, but they also hit civilians, these drones are NOT favored by the people of Pakistan, and history says, the people in the end, always possess the POWER.
"Aid" to Pakistan also means gaining good mutual feelings among the GoP, it's people, and the American government.
That can also be seen as "aid" and as a step further into dismantling the Taliban ideology and presence inside Pakistan.

Who helped Taliban to take over Afghanistan?

 

[suresh_]

And what exactly is "very recent"?
Also, Pakistan went through alot of political reform and turmoil, which didn't do us any good in our fight against these radicals.
Why weren't we succesful? Was the U.S. "aid" any succesful? Did the U.S. fully provide Pakistan of everything it needs to fight off these pigs?
Did Pakistan receive the right aid a 3rd world country needs to maintain a stable economy and at the same time wage a very costly war which gains public distrust among Pakistani people?
How things are different now? I think the Taliban now knows that it's just a matter of time before they're out of business, Pakistan has sacrificed alot, and is continuing to do so, we will not stop until this menace is destroyed.
These drones are not helping that much, why is that?
They might hit their targets, but they also hit civilians, these drones are NOT favored by the people of Pakistan, and history says, the people in the end, always possess the POWER.
"Aid" to Pakistan also means gaining good mutual feelings among the GoP, it's people, and the American government.
That can also be seen as "aid" and as a step further into dismantling the Taliban ideology and presence inside Pakistan.

but, isnt wat you saying contradictory? on one hand you said that it is difficult for 'third world country' to 'wage a war' and 'maintain a stable economy', you also mentioned the turmoil in pak. but when US helps you, you dont like it? you cant have your cake and eat it too!

US also has to look out for its interests, it cant just play to your tunes. till mushy was there, bush allowed pak to have its way. but then there is a limit, now US want to do it by itself with assitance from PA. and results are showing. maybe it is hurting your 'national pride' that a foreign country can carry out strikes on your country at will. is that the problem?

 

[Jihad]

Who helped Taliban to take over Afghanistan?

The United States of America?

 

[pama]

The United States of America?

It was helped by Pakistan in Zia era.
US want to create Soviet Vietnam in afghan so executed it with help of Zia.

well every one knows this surprised you do not know this history.
I think all pakistan respect Tairq ali this is what he says in this vedio.

Its short term interst came to hurt them in long run.
it is not easy to dislodge installed fundamentalist power as he turns against you

One thing is sure war will spill into Pakistan if US does not stop drown attracts in FATA.
as people view Taliban as there protectors and Pak army in glove of US.
People will show there fury once there patience expires .


YouTube - Conversations With History - Tariq Ali

 

[koolio]

If Pakistan is capable of tackling of terror it has been 8 years Pakistan is fighting terror in its own soil till Taliban is are getting stronger and bigger by organizing court and issues warrants against its elected representatives.

So Mr clever the war on terror had nothing to do with Pakistan or 911, Pakistan got sucked into this useless war for nothing except bringing the destruction in NWFP when Taliban was in power in Afghanistan there were no suicide bombings in Pakistan you could literally travel anywhere in NWFP and the tribal belt, I have been to Swat valley myself and the people that live there were so friendly more friendly than I have found compared to the rest of Pakistan.

Its a shame Swat valley has been turned into death valley and I do not believe any of the media reports that Swati people are extremists yes they are strict followers of Islam but they don't impose anything by force these mad extremists are definitely from Afghanistan and are hijacking this beautiful paradise valley on earth the scenic beauty is just amazing and rightly so it deserves the title of east Switzerland but until now I hope the army kicks them out once and for all.

America with all its might the most advanced nation on this planet is unable to achieve its objectives in Afghanistan for the last 8 years it has spent 100s of billions of dollars and what has it gained? the Talibs control 75 to 80% of Afghan territory as we speak so no need to fault Pakistan's commitment in the so called war on terror.

India needs to clean its own house before bullying Pakistan any further I cant believe Hindustan was unable to control 10 terrorists in Mumbai for three days and yet they are bragging about Pakistan's ability. India needs to take more responsibility about its security it simply shouldn't rely on Pakistan to guarantee its security.

 

[Captain03]

Who helped Taliban to take over Afghanistan?

the u.s. and used pakistan in order to accomplish it
after they beat the soviets they left the taliban to rot
and when somebody got pissed and attacked back the war on terror came to be
i support neither sides as it is all political and taliban misuses islam

 

[pama]

So Mr clever the war on terror had nothing to do with Pakistan or 911, Pakistan got sucked into this useless war for nothing except bringing the destruction in NWFP when Taliban was in power in Afghanistan there were no suicide bombings in Pakistan you could literally travel anywhere in NWFP and the tribal belt, I have been to Swat valley myself and the people that live there were so friendly more friendly than I have found compared to the rest of Pakistan.

Its a shame Swat valley has been turned into death valley and I do not believe any of the media reports that Swati people are extremists yes they are strict followers of Islam but they don't impose anything by force these mad extremists are definitely from Afghanistan and are hijacking this beautiful paradise valley on earth the scenic beauty is just amazing and rightly so it deserves the title of east Switzerland but until now I hope the army kicks them out once and for all.

America with all its might the most advanced nation on this planet is unable to achieve its objectives in Afghanistan for the last 8 years it has spent 100s of billions of dollars and what has it gained? the Talibs control 75 to 80% of Afghan territory as we speak so no need to fault Pakistan's commitment in the so called war on terror.

India needs to clean its own house before bullying Pakistan any further I cant believe Hindustan was unable to control 10 terrorists in Mumbai for three days and yet they are bragging about Pakistan's ability. India needs to take more responsibility about its security it simply shouldn't rely on Pakistan to guarantee its security.

You make genuine case.
You are right US did not achive any thing nor pakistan that what I have been saying in all my posts.
I know FATA and beautiful Swat valley before 8 years.
What do you think has changed in 8 years for these to fall to Taliban.
do you think war is spilling into Pakistan?
not only India but did you not hear "Pakistan need to do more... on terror" statements from around the world.
We are making these statements as we are attacked by Pakistan terrorists.

 

[pama]

the u.s. and used pakistan in order to accomplish it
after they beat the soviets they left the taliban to rot
and when somebody got pissed and attacked back the war on terror came to be
i support neither sides as it is all political and taliban misuses islam

Thanks friend.
US short term interest are hurting these region in long run.
We especially Pakistan is suffering with these US short term policies you need to bold with them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Jihad, you need to understand that from India's perspective we have long suffered from terror coming from Pakistan.

So while Pakistan is indeed bearing the brunt of terror and you have all our sympathies, you need to understand that it does not mean that anyone can condone terror activities effecting their country because of that. Especially when niggling suspicions remain that they may still enjoy some institutional support.

I agree that the world should help Pakistan come out of this difficult situation and Pakistan on it's part should come down hard on all terrorists and not try to discriminate between good and bad terrorists. You know, don't try and save the good terrorists for a rainy day!

There are no good terrorists, by definition.

Once again, Pakistan has not supported terrorists any more than India supported terrorists in East Pakistan and Baluchistan, or the US did in Afghanistan and Latin America.

Institutional support may indeed exist for legitimate groups fighting the Kashmiri freedom struggle against occupation in Kashmir, but that is not support for terrorism.

Pranab Mukerjee is deliberately mixing the above support with the Mumbai attacks, when the two can clearly not be linked in most cases.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

sorry to hear that. I would have thought that mumbai-carnage ruined indo-pak relations. you guys, should remember that pranab is just the messenger and he was giving you message from a country that had just suffered from terror attacks which we strongly believe was carried out from your land with implicit support from key guys in your country. obviously, you cant expect him to give you 'love messages'.

Pranab Mukherjee should have exercised restraint and waited till the Indian investigations were over, instead of acting so irresponsibly and inflaming tensions to where we almost went to war.

Remember that India's own evidence dossier, that India shared with the US and EU nations, stated that no evidence of Pakistani institutional involvement was found.

The same was reiterated by US and EU nation officials, intelligence and LEA's.

Yet we see that Indian officials, civilian and military, continue to attack Pakistan with these allegations - this has got to be the height of absurdity and irresponsibility. All of this information vindicating Pakistan, including your own investigation, and still this irresponsible behavior.

Pakistanis are completely justified in ridiculing the GoI and her officials in this scenario.

 

[suresh_]

Once again, Pakistan has not supported terrorists any more than India supported terrorists in East Pakistan and Baluchistan, or the US did in Afghanistan and Latin America.

Institutional support may indeed exist for legitimate groups fighting the Kashmiri freedom struggle against occupation in Kashmir, but that is not support for terrorism.

Pranab Mukerjee is deliberately mixing the above support with the Mumbai attacks, when the two can clearly not be linked in most cases.

legitimate terrorists and illegitimate terrorists?

is the last assertion your assumption?

 

[dave007]

Once again, Pakistan has not supported terrorists any more than India supported terrorists in East Pakistan and Baluchistan, or the US did in Afghanistan and Latin America.

Institutional support may indeed exist for legitimate groups fighting the Kashmiri freedom struggle against occupation in Kashmir, but that is not support for terrorism.

Pranab Mukerjee is deliberately mixing the above support with the Mumbai attacks, when the two can clearly not be linked in most cases.

LeT, JeM are not terrorist organisations then?..And what is "legitimate support"..how can you justify terror?

Neither US nor India has directed terror against "civilians"..get you facts correct.India has never pursued terror as a state policy. US did it against Soviet military. Rebellion against a military is not terrorism, against civilians is. Which is precisely dubious in case of Pak sponsored terror..It is directed against Indian citizens..
And I dont know what is more cowardice than attacking unarmed civilians, in the name freedom struggle "jihad"..I would dare them to target IA if they can..

and my other point, Pranab infact is demarcating between Kashmir dispute and 26/11.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If Pakistan is capable of tackling of terror it has been 8 years Pakistan is fighting terror in its own soil till Taliban is are getting stronger and bigger by organizing court and issues warrants against its elected representatives.

but pama is right, drones are a very recent occurence, till then pak army was on it own and US was giving a lot of military aid, then why werent you successful?

and how are things different now?

the fact is drones are helping you.

With all the US attacks in FATA, Taliban running courts and running there law do'nt you think war is spilling into pakistan after these 8 years?
These courts and US attacks not there 8 years before they are in Afgan.

The Taliban did not really become a major issue until last year.

You have to realize that before the LM operation the peace deals inked with the Taliban were holding up relatively well. Most people believed that negotiations and 'deals' would work since that is sort of the way the Tribals have been dealt with for a long time now. Agreements are made with the tribes and they ensure they are kept.

Unfortunately with the Taliban that was not the case, and it has taken this time for a lot of people in the civilian and military leadership to realize that the Taliban pose a major threat to Pakistan and that the method of 'negotiations' has failed with them (though the option should be left open if they agree to lay down arms).

So it is not an issue of being 'incapable' as PM suggests, but a matter of resources and adopting the right policies. A lot of this stuff is dicussed in detail in the Swat, Bajaur and FATA threads. To try and use incidents such as the Taliban courts etc. as has been done here, and not analyze these incidents as well as the actions taken by the GoP and Pak. Mil in the North West in light of the complex dynamics of the region is to completely misunderstand the situation.

I'd suggest that those really interested in the issue read through those threads to get a better understanding of the issue, and not just focus on headlines.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

legitimate terrorists and illegitimate terrorists?

is the last assertion your assumption?

Legitimate freedom fighters, those groups fighting Indian occupation forces in Kashmir, and not attacking civilians as a matter of policy.

Terorrorists - those who carried out the attack in Mumbai, throw acid on women, and those carrying out suicide bombings in Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

LeT, JeM are not terrorist organisations then?..And what is "legitimate support"..how can you justify terror?

I have explained this in my previous posts - read through them, they are written in simple English.

Neither US nor India has directed terror against "civilians"..get you facts correct.India has never pursued terror as a state policy. US did it against Soviet military. Rebellion against a military is not terrorism, against civilians is. Which is precisely dubious in case of Pak sponsored terror..It is directed against Indian citizens..

Pakistan has not supported terror - it has like India in East Pakistan and the US in Latin America and Afghanistan, supported insurgents. In fact Pakistan only supported insurgents in disputed territory, India supported insurgents in sovereign Pakistani territory, so arguably India was the one supporting terrorism since it was destabilizing the sovereign undisputed territory of another nation (read through the Bangladesh threads in the history forum to continue this discussion - most of these questions have been answered there)

And I dont know what is more cowardice than attacking unarmed civilians, in the name freedom struggle "jihad"..I would dare them to target IA if they can..

They do attack the IA - you have lost plenty of soldiers in fights with freedom fighters.

That is why I made a distinction between groups who fight the occupation by attacking the military, and those who merely terrorize civilians.