PAK-FA : photos and videos

[gogbot]

I gave you all the information , if you use your browsers search feature you can find all the info in my original post

As you mentioned, the entire plan of Tejas started off in 1983. So that makes it 27 years to date,

You know how People always say India cant get anything of paper.

Well by that logic The Tejas only existed on Paper by 1991. that's when the design of the plane was finalised.

The project definition did not even happen until 1988 .

In 1983 all they had was the mission of making a 4th generation aircraft with what they had , it took them 7 years to get the point where they could actually even attempt it.

except that its still not in active service and might take another 2 3 years if its ever to come into service.

It will be in service next year.

Construction of the aircraft has already commenced.

It is finally happening get used to it

I'm simply saying that provided India has such tensions with Pakistan, it cannot afford such colossal delays in its defense procurement.

IAF still out numbers and our performs PAF .

you only have some 50 f-16's , maybe one squadron of JF-17.

I mean why overshadow your government's incompetence and corruption in all defense deals that your country makes.

that exists in all nations , singling out India proves nothing

I wouldnt like to comment much about the Tejas since you people have your own opinion in regards to that.

You already have
commented and that is the reason for my posts.

However, the plane's development has been going for 27 years, A huge waste of time and investment.

21 years, i only consider development to have stated from 1988 when they had a project definition

Also the remainder just goes against common sense

I believe its in the larger interests of the corrupt Indian government officials to keep that project rolling for another few years so they can mint money off of it. Same goes for the rest of your Defence project i assume.

Again happen's everywhere.
Can't be helped.

Now i heard a few days ago that MCRA deal has been delayed as well. I mean come on man no matter how large the contract, it is not suppose to take 7 years in just evaluating an aircraft.

If you actually know anything about the MMRCA contract you will also know that outside the American planes. None of the other planes will even be ready for production until 2013.

SAAN Griphen NG and MIg-35 are still in development

EF and RAF still have yet to incorporate the upgrades.

As of now these aircraft don't meet the IAF requirements.

This delays is only a technicality in the contract wording.

Unfortunately the Indian public buys the series of propogandas laid forth by their government to address their concerns towards every delay.

Great are you an analyst with inside sources to confirm all this , or is it just common sense that tells you everything.

we have enough self proclaimed defence pundits

By the time you guys induct anything, its already decades old.

BY that logic the F-16 should be an ancient relic

By the time Pak get's the J-10 it will also be old.

But wait no, that is not the case why is that ?

it is because of continuous upgrades to technology while still in development, part of the delay was creeping requirements.

if you are so confident in your statement point out any obsolescence in the Tejas , and i will gladly respond.

Now coming back to the PAK-fa, Funny how all the links provided above are INDIAN based. Please provide credible sources from a Russian site stating what in what way India has contributed towards PAK-FA.

The alst article i agev you was from a Russian source

In regards to the article, ofcourse india 'WANTS' a 25 % share. I ve read almost all the international sources and to my surprise none of them mentions how India is going to be putting their energies in the project except that the want a 25% share in development and would possible get the jet when developed. Which to me is not surprising at all since IND-RUS defense relations go back a long way.

Again you are making assumptions with out understand or reading the information properly.

This is a 50-50 venture meaning we have as much say in the project as they do. the Russians came to us we did not go to them.

They want us on the project they give us what we want, 25% development of the FGFA not the PAK FA is a very reasonable demand. ( if you actually bothered to read you would know the difference between the PAK-FA and FGFA)

And that is exactly what is being discussed on the negotiations table

coming to my original point which was that India cannot do better than Russia in Aviation. Well I thank some of the Indian members here who are not dilusional and tend to share the same thoughts. I agree fully that India has immense potential but then again every nation has the 'potential' provided they are not slashed by severe sanctions.

true , you make a fair point.
But not every nation has the same resources and money.

Lastly, India always had more access to technology even after it conducted its nuclear test in 1974 compared to Pakistan which was imposed on with embargoes starting 1989.

India has been under and continues to be subject to the technology denial regimes . We had no picnic our selves.

every high technology venture we have undertaken has resulted in blocks by foreign nations , resulting in delays and development of indigenous alternatives.

DRDO and ISRO had to deliver on very tough order , with limited budgets and systemic bottlenecks

 

[gogbot]

Make a deal or contract? you lead me with no choice but to say the obvious. You need to first successfully develop and induct an aircraft in your air force first, in order to have a credible track record. I mean India hasn't even successfully inducted a LIGHT COMBAT AIRCRAFT

Again with that

and your talking about inducting a 5th generation stealth. Speaking about track record and basing it on that, you will never end up inducting a fighter, whether yourself or with Russian assistance. Unless of course, Russia makes and and markets it to India with TOT, which India can then manufacture at home and call it indigenous.

You just don't get it do you , India own the plane. it is 50-50 with Russia.

Russia And India To Develop Joint 5G-fighter By 2016

Russia And India To Develop Joint 5G-fighter By 2016

The new aircraft will be most likely based on Russia's T-50 prototype fifth-generation fighter, which has already made two test flights and is expected to join the Russian Air Force in 2015.
by Staff Writers
Moscow (RIA Novosti) Mar 10, 2010

A Russian-Indian fifth-generation fighter jet could be developed by 2015-2016, a Russian defense industry official said on Tuesday.
Moscow and New Delhi are expected to sign a contract on a joint development of the new fighter in the near future, focusing on the design concept and technical requirements put forward by India.

"I hope that we will be able to build a joint fifth-generation aircraft in the next five to six years. It is a time-consuming and complex project," said Alexander Fomin, first deputy head of the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation.

The new aircraft will be most likely based on Russia's T-50 prototype fifth-generation fighter, which has already made two test flights and is expected to join the Russian Air Force in 2015.

India's Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) was reported to be seeking a 25% share in design and development in the project.

Fomin said the fighter for the Indian Air Force could incorporate several integrated on-board systems developed by third parties.

"The integration is good because we will not have to invent a bicycle and can use the things that our neighbors already have, but it is also a difficult task because we will have to combine all the elements in a unified system," the official said.

The new fighter for the Indian Air Force is expected to feature a two-seat cockpit, advanced electronics and could be armed with BrahMos supersonic missiles.

Russia has been developing its fifth-generation fighter since the 1990s. The current prototype, known as the T-50, was designed by the Sukhoi design bureau and built at a plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, in Russia's Far East.

Russian officials have already hailed the fighter as "a unique warplane" that combines the capabilities of an air superiority fighter and attack aircraft.

India set to buy 42 more Russian Su-30 fighter jets
New Delhi (RIA Novosti) Mar 10 - India and Russia are negotiating a new contract on the delivery of 42 Su-30MKI to the Indian Air Force, an Indian newspaper reported on Tuesday, citing military sources.

According to the Daily News and Analysis newspaper, the new deal, which is reportedly worth more than $3 billion, has been in the works for several months.

The new air-superiority fighters will come on top of the 230 already contracted from Russia in three deals worth a total of $8.5 billion.

"The [new] order is being placed due to the insufficient number of fighter squadrons in the Indian Air Force and would allow us to eliminate potential threats," a source in the Indian Defense Ministry told RIA Novosti.

India originally ordered 50 Su-30MKI aircraft from Russia in 1996-98 and an additional 40 planes in 2007. Hindustani Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) was also contracted to build 140 aircraft in India between 2003 and 2017 under a licensed production agreement.

The Indian Air Force currently has about 100 Su-30MKIs, mainly deployed at airbases close to the borders with China and Pakistan.

India, Russia agree details of joint 5G-fighter project | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

India and Russia have agreed in general on shared responsibility for the joint development of the fifth-generation fighter, the chairman of the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) said.
Moscow and New Delhi are expected to sign a contract on the joint development of the new fighter in the near future, focusing on the design concept and technical requirements put forward by India.
"Currently, broad areas of work sharing have been identified. Composite materials, avionics, etc. could be some of the focus areas of HAL," Ashok Nayak said in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.
Nayak did not specify the cost of the project but said it would be split evenly between India and Russia.
The sides agreed to develop both a single-seat and a two-seat versions of the aircraft by 2016, focusing on the single-seat version in the initial stages of development.
"Both versions will be put in service with the Indian Air Force," Nayak said.
The HAL chairman said the Indian side had already specified technical requirements for the single-seat version and passed them on to Russian manufacturers.
"The general agreement is that we work on both sides - the Russians and the Indians will cooperate on both versions of the aircraft," he said.
The new aircraft will be most likely based on Russia's T-50 prototype fifth-generation fighter, which has already made two test flights and is expected to join the Russian Air Force in 2015.
Russia has been developing its fifth-generation fighter since the 1990s. The current prototype, known as the T-50, was designed by the Sukhoi design bureau and built at a plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, in Russia's Far East.
Russian officials have already hailed the fighter as "a unique warplane" that combines the capabilities of an air superiority fighter and attack aircraft.

defence.professionals | defpro.com

The Indian Factor

Back in early 2007, Russia and India reached an agreement to cooperate on a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) based on the PAK FA for the Indian Air Force. The programme is officially described as involving a 50-50% split as regards both financing and R&D activities, but it is nearly universally understood to rather cover a scheme, under which India will fund a substantial portion of the PAK FA’s development bill in exchange for access to the relevant technologies.

The Indian Air Force’s requirements do differ rather substantially from the Russian Air Force’s, and are reported to demand a twin-seat configuration as well as possibly a different wing and control surfaces. Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is expected to become responsible for some 25% of the total development workload for the FGFA programme, involving modifying the PAK FA single-seater airframe to a twin-seater configuration as well as the mission computer, navigation system, cockpit displays and ECM dispensers. HAL will of course also take care of eventual series production of a tentatively planned total of some 200-250 aircraft.

Indian sources have ventured into suggesting that the FGFA could be in service by 2015.

ÎÀÎ "Êîìïàíèÿ "Ñóõîé" - Íîâîñòè - Íîâîñòè êîìïàíèè

Moscow, January 29. Today in Komsomolsk - on - Amur hosted the first flight of an experienced aviation complex of the fifth generation. The plane was piloted Honored Test Pilot of the Russian Federation Sergey Bogdan. Prototype of the PAK FA is held in the air 47 minutes and landed on the runway factory airfield.

The flight was successful, in full accordance with the flight plan. "In the course of the flight we had initial evaluation controllability of the aircraft, engine and major systems, the aircraft made a full-time cleaning, and landing gear. The aircraft is working well in all phases of our planned flight program. They are easily and comfortably manage, "- said Sergey Bogdan.

Compared with previous generations of fighters, PAK FA has several unique features, combining the functions of attack aircraft and fighter.

The aircraft is equipped with a fifth-generation an entirely new set of avionics, the integrating function of the e-pilot, and forward-looking radar with a phased array. This greatly reduces the load on the pilot and can concentrate on the implementation of tactical tasks. Board equipment of the new aircraft allows the sharing of data in real time as a land-management systems, and inside air group.

The use of composite materials and innovative technology, aerodynamic design aircraft, measures to reduce the visibility of the engine provides unprecedented low level of radar, optical and infrared visibility. This can greatly increase the combat effectiveness in the work, both by air and ground targets, at any time of day, in simple and adverse weather conditions.

"Today we have begun a program of flight tests of fifth generation aircraft. This is a great success of Russian science and engineering thought. For this achievement is cooperation more than a hundred related companies, our strategic partners. PAK FA program brings the Russian aircraft industry and related industries on a qualitatively new technological level. The aircraft, along with modernized aviation complexes of the fourth generation will determine the potential of the Russian Air Force in the coming decades. The plans of the Company "Sukhoi" is included and further development of the PAK FA program, on which we will work with Indian partners. I am confident that our joint project will surpass foreign analogues by the criterion of cost-effectiveness and will not only strengthen the defensive power of the Russian Air Force and India, but will take its rightful place in the world market ", - said General Director of company" Sukhoi "Mikhail Pogosyan, Commenting on the beginning of flight tests.

BBC News - Russia unveils its first stealth fighter jet

Russia has unveiled its new stealth fighter jet, meant to boost the country's ageing arsenal of weaponry and be a rival to the US F-22 Raptor.
The Sukhoi T-50, also called the PAK FA, made its maiden flight in Russia's far east. Test pilot Sergei Bogdan said it was "easy and comfortable to pilot".
Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said much work needed to be done before mass production began in 2015.
Stealth technology is meant to nearly eliminate a plane's radar signature.
The plane is being developed by the Sukhoi company at its Komsomolsk-on-Amur production plant.
The new jet has been developed in partnership with India. It is seen as a significant milestone in Russia's efforts to modernise its Soviet-era military hardware.
Sukhoi's director Mikhail Pogosyan said he was convinced that the project would "excel its Western rivals in cost-effectiveness and will not only allow strengthening of the defence power of the Russian and Indian air forces, but also gain a significant share of the world market".
The company says the jet's stealth features considerably enhance its combat effectiveness in all weathers.
Its features include: all-weather capability, ability to use a take-off strip of just 300-400 metres, capacity for sustained supersonic flight including repeated in-flight refuelling, advanced avionics, simultaneous attacks on air and ground targets.
But analysts have denied the jet is a leap forward.
"It's just a prototype lacking new engines and a new radar," military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer told the Associated Press news agency.
Originally scheduled for 2007, the T-50's maiden flight was repeatedly postponed because of technical problems.
Observers of Russia's recent military modernisation drive say it has been plagued by delays and quality problems.

domain-b.com : India to induct 5th-gen fighter jets by 2018

As part of India's efforts to effectively meet the emerging threats in its immediate geographical environment the Russo-Indian fifth generation fighter aircraft programme (FGFA) will result in state-of-the art stealth fighters being inducted into the Indian Air Force by 2018.

According to Indian Air Force chief, Air Marshal PV Naik, "The fifth generation aircraft would possess technologies which would provide it (India) the edge over adversaries in future air warfare,"


PAK-FA in debut fligh
"China is rapidly modernising its air force," he said. "On our part, the IAF is reviewing its tactics regularly to increase its combat potential."

The Russo-Indian PAK-FA fifth-generation fighters, slated to match and outperform the US F-22 Raptor, can evade sophisticated radars and operate from short airstrips. It also has longer enduarnce than the current lot of fighters, being able to stay in the air for a lomger period of time, air force officials said.


India plans to procure at least 200 of the 5th-gen PAK-FA fighters, each valued at $100 million. India will spend atleast $32 billion over the next five years to modernise its largely Soviet-era weapons systems.

Though governmnet-level agreements are already in place for the PAK-FA programme, the two companies India's Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and the Russian designer and manufacturer, the Sukhoi design bureau, are yet to work out the details.

450 FGFA is good for humour.

Its 250 for India and 250 for Russia.

And even if India does end up acquiring a Russian 5th gen in such numbers which is highly unlikely, It would never station them all on the Pakistan border. Rather 3/4 of it would be most probably based on the chinese border because China would obviously have stationed JXX on INDO-CHI border in largerrrr numbers than India. Like I mentioned earlier, its in the larger strategic interest of China to provide Pakistan any weapons to match India. So that answers your question of matching.

You speak about the J-xx as if its already inducted.

Let them first build it , and deploy it.

At least the PAk-FA is flying only Chinese government know about the J-XX , let then build an engine for J-10 , then i will at least consider the possibility or its flight

and even 1/4 of FGFA's can cause havoc to regular forces

For now its better for PAF to just speculate because it takes Pakistan faaar less time time evaluate or develop and 'SUCCESSFULLY induct an airplane. Unlike SOME COUNTRIES. lol

Is that why J-10 is wont see is not part of your inventory till of 2015

 

[sirius4u]

did you have any idea on weapon carry by pak-fa (means ata missiles,did it have HMCS)

It sure will... Mig 29 was the first aircraft to have JHMCS... Mind you it was in the 80s So it would be stupid for the russians to leave it out on its future combat aircraft...

Two Izdeliye 810 Extended beyond visual range missiles per weapons bay. Multiple Izdeliye 180 / K77M beyond visual range missiles. K74 and K30 within visual range missiles can also be carried.

The Izedeliye 810 has a range of over 350 km.... Much like the Novator... Its in final stages of development for both PAK-FA and the MKI. It will be extremely hard to fool this missile as it is speculated that it possesses artificial intelligence...

Cant wait to see it...

 

[DMLA]

from the insider of transport aircraft being transfered!

 

[KEETARP]

^^^
Space between Nozzles looks good enough infavt much bigger than Su33

It can host a descent
-Reward facing Radar ( X band or L band )
-A parachute brake
-A perfect Decoy
-Even an Arrestor hook if Naval Pak-Fa is planned.

And after all these , it still provides area for full deflecting nozzles to give complete TVC .
But recent news of Flat Nozzles makes it unimportant

What do you think of our MKI , i heard that it has a reward facing N012 back , but then it turned out many experts opined that no backward radar is on MKI.

 

[sirius4u]

^^^


But recent news of Flat Nozzles makes it unimportant

What...? Flat nozzles for PAK FA...?

Pls elaborate or kindly provide a link....

 

[KEETARP]

What...? Flat nozzles for PAK FA...?

Pls elaborate or kindly provide a link....

Sure

Plz check out the Page4 of this thread and the last post .

I posted it earlier , but i guess being a small news everyone missed it.

 

[DMLA]

^^^
Space between Nozzles looks good enough infavt much bigger than Su33

It can host a descent
-Reward facing Radar ( X band or L band )
-A parachute brake
-A perfect Decoy
-Even an Arrestor hook if Naval Pak-Fa is planned.

And after all these , it still provides area for full deflecting nozzles to give complete TVC .
But recent news of Flat Nozzles makes it unimportant

What do you think of our MKI , i heard that it has a reward facing N012 back , but then it turned out many experts opined that no backward radar is on MKI.

Well brake chute, arrestor hook, decoy etc are all part of the current su-27/30 line up. So no changes there! As far as rear radar goes, mki's don't have one and PAKFA will have one (in all likelihood)! The flight test program should throw up interesting challenges wrt design and specs. We will have to wait and see what happens. IMO, new engines are the most critical element of this program and will define its capabilities to a large extent. Too many radars/ systems will put increased strain on the engines as well and thus the new generation engine is all important!

 

[KEETARP]

^^^^^^^^^^^
Decoy on MKI , Are you sure ???????

 

[KEETARP]

From Jane's Defence Weekly:

"Russian analysts familiar with the T-50 prototype configuration state that production series models will require major changes in inlet geometry in order to achieve the required reductions in radar cross-section. The current layout has the 117S fan-face in a direct line of sight with the air intake, which would make its frontal hemisphere too observable."

Nice , now two new developments in this week -

1.Change in intakes-
2.Flat Nozzles -

That shows they are definitely in line of creating Raptorski.

 

[ptldM3]

Tada!

 

[Trichy]

Tada!

nice cg man

 

[Srinivas]

Make a deal or contract? you lead me with no choice but to say the obvious. You need to first successfully develop and induct an aircraft in your air force first, in order to have a credible track record. I mean India hasn't even successfully inducted a LIGHT COMBAT AIRCRAFT and your talking about inducting a 5th generation stealth. Speaking about track record and basing it on that, you will never end up inducting a fighter, whether yourself or with Russian assistance. Unless of course, Russia makes and and markets it to India with TOT, which India can then manufacture at home and call it indigenous.

450 FGFA is good for humour. please provide a source to that. And even if India does end up acquiring a Russian 5th gen in such numbers which is highly unlikely, It would never station them all on the Pakistan border. Rather 3/4 of it would be most probably based on the chinese border because China would obviously have stationed JXX on INDO-CHI border in largerrrr numbers than India. Like I mentioned earlier, its in the larger strategic interest of China to provide Pakistan any weapons to match India. So that answers your question of matching.

For now its better for PAF to just speculate because it takes Pakistan faaar less time time evaluate or develop and 'SUCCESSFULLY induct an airplane. Unlike SOME COUNTRIES. lol

LCA tejas is going to be inducted soon buddy don't worry about it. I agree that the projects like Tejas, Arjun and some missiles are declared as failures to some extent they really are, but that is the way democracy works. Do you know how many failures chinese have faced during their development of J10 or J17 you will never know it because that is communism and tight media control.
Recent 2 or 3 years are good for DRDO and they are doing well with missiles, Arjun project and Tejas. We need some advanced tech to catch up with West and Russia and we are getting the help in JV's and techtransfers so don't worry about india's defence agencies they all will be doing well if not better than chinese industries in the coming years.
.
Regarding pakistan as a counter weight to India those days are gone buddy believe me the gap will become even wider as the time progresses. All pakistan can do is to achieve the minimum deterrence against an imagined enemy India(I even doubt India will attach pakistan).
Regarding chinese jxx they are getting help from Russia that is not entirely indigenous. And why would Russia allow a competitor in its market by transferring all the tech so Cheer up.
And pakistan will eventually get the JXX but by that time India will get FGFA which is a home grown fighter with complete indigenous technology or atleast we will have a technology base to design 6th gen fighter.
JAI HO

 

[Prowler]

Finally Learned how to post Images.

 

[xMustiiej70]

T-50 have canards? Dude.. that plane aint stealth anymore..