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PAK FA and Su35 are quite similar.

Not true.

EVERYTHING on a body is a contributor to final RCS. Literally EVERYTHING.

radar_groove_wave_reflect.jpg


The above is an example of how just a small depth on a flat surface can amplify a return radar signal via multiple reflections. That small depth can be a panel gap, which is inevitable on all aircrafts, or a gouge from a tool or someone's boot. The amount of contributorship, meaning the energy level, depends on the radar signal's angle of incident (approach) and the energy level of that signal. Finally, as the aircraft moves and/or maneuver, this contributorship will appear and disappear.

The contributorship, or reflected energy level, of any structure, large or small, can be calculated if measure as a standalone structure, meaning if you want to measure the reflected signal from a screw, you measure only the screw. But the moment you put many many many structures together, measurement calculations gets exponentially complex because reflected signals interferes with each other. The interference falls under two types: destructive and constructive.

Destructive interference is good, basically speaking. This is when signals cancels out each other due to phase/amplitude/freq differences. Between two signals, one maybe completely cancelled out and the other diminished. Or both may completely destroys each other. So for RCS controls, destructive interference is desirable.

Constructive interference is evil, basically speaking. This is when signals amplifies each other due to similarities in phase/amplitude/freq. For RCS controls, constructive interference is not desirable.

When facing a really complex structure like an aircraft, anyone who says so-and-so structure, no matter how large or small, have no relevance in final RCS -- is a liar. Or does not know what he is talking about. If the Americans, and no doubt the Chinese, have strict maintenance procedures on their 'stealth' fighters regarding these small depths on the surfaces of their fighters, then how can anyone say the canards or the IRST sensor bulge do not contribute to final RCS ? These arguments in defense of their nations' fighters contradicts the laws of physics.
Laws of physics is fine. My question is how much difference would it make?
 
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Laws of physics is fine. My question is how much difference would it make?
There is no way to know until you put the aircraft under controlled environment for measurement.

Keywords search 'anechoic chamber testing'...

Factsheets : 772nd Test Squadron - Benefield Anechoic Facility (BAF - Anechoic Chamber)
BAF reduces risks and costs of flight test

You put an aircraft into an EM isolation chamber to shield it from any possible EM sources that are NOT under your control and authority. These sources includes faint signals like cosmic background radiation (CBR), let alone TV and radios and cell phones or even emanations from the office printer. Once the jet is completely isolated from these sources, you begins to bombard the jet, from different angles, with signals that you control. You do that by moving your test antennas and/or by rotating the jet. The more comprehensive these testings, the more accurate your data regarding final RCS.

For the IRST sensor bulge, under certain angles, that structure WILL be EM significant, meaning you can see it on the graph/scope. Anyone who says otherwise -- is a liar.

Once you are done with the EM isolation tests, you move the jet outside to measure the jet WITH unwanted signals that you previously dismissed. Now you have two sets of measurement data: One set of unique signals that comes only from the aircraft, and one set of signals that contains signals from the aircraft that are tainted by other signals.

Only when you have done this, can you make a declaration that so-and-so structure have no EM significance to final RCS. So if any Russian/Chinese fanboy-ism statement that says the IRST sensor bulge have no bearings on RCS, that person have no clue on the laws of physics, basic radar operations, and military tactics.
 
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There is no way to know until you put the aircraft under controlled environment for measurement.

Keywords search 'anechoic chamber testing'...

Factsheets : 772nd Test Squadron - Benefield Anechoic Facility (BAF - Anechoic Chamber)
BAF reduces risks and costs of flight test

You put an aircraft into an EM isolation chamber to shield it from any possible EM sources that are NOT under your control and authority. These sources includes faint signals like cosmic background radiation (CBR), let alone TV and radios and cell phones or even emanations from the office printer. Once the jet is completely isolated from these sources, you begins to bombard the jet, from different angles, with signals that you control. You do that by moving your test antennas and/or by rotating the jet. The more comprehensive these testings, the more accurate your data regarding final RCS.

For the IRST sensor bulge, under certain angles, that structure WILL be EM significant, meaning you can see it on the graph/scope. Anyone who says otherwise -- is a liar.

Once you are done with the EM isolation tests, you move the jet outside to measure the jet WITH unwanted signals that you previously dismissed. Now you have two sets of measurement data: One set of unique signals that comes only from the aircraft, and one set of signals that contains signals from the aircraft that are tainted by other signals.

Only when you have done this, can you make a declaration that so-and-so structure have no EM significance to final RCS. So if any Russian/Chinese fanboy-ism statement that says the IRST sensor bulge have no bearings on RCS, that person have no clue on the laws of physics, basic radar operations, and military tactics.

Give me a figure, what difference would it make? 5%, 10%, 20%, 30%, 40% ?
 
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Give me a figure, what difference would it make? 5%, 10%, 20%, 30%, 40% ?
Am not going to do that. I do not know the jet's test data. We do not even know if there are ANY test data. But base on the laws of physics alone, anyone who says the IRST sensor bulge have no contributorship to final RCS -- is a liar.

sr-71_radar_range_test.jpg


That is the old SR-71 on a pole for measurement. Why is it upside down and have no tails ?
 
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Am not going to do that. I do not know the jet's test data. We do not even know if there are ANY test data. But base on the laws of physics alone, anyone who says the IRST sensor bulge have no contributorship to final RCS -- is a liar.

sr-71_radar_range_test.jpg


That is the old SR-71 on a pole for measurement. Why is it upside down and have no tails ?

Why don't you just come out and say it, the difference would be marginal !!
 
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Why don't you just come out and say it, the difference would be marginal !!
Because we do not have any hard data. I do not understand why you are so insistent on this. My arguments are technically sound and logical. Any fair minded person would come to the same conclusion I have. So am not going to repeat myself for your benefits. You are free to believe any which way you like. Finis.
 
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Because we do not have any hard data. I do not understand why you are so insistent on this. My arguments are technically sound and logical. Any fair minded person would come to the same conclusion I have. So am not going to repeat myself for your benefits. You are free to believe any which way you like. Finis.
DO you have any data, on any fighter with and without built in IRST?
 
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If by similar you mean, they're both aeroplanes and hail from the same country they yes they're identical actually. Otherwise, not at all.
 
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I'm no expert on RCS, but my understanding is that built in IRST, actually has no bearing on the RCS whatsoever. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
DO you have any data, on any fighter with and without built in IRST?
It is very simple logic by gambit that you add extra thing on airframe that gives extra surface to radar, just like canards, you are in the denial mode Mr:hitwall:
 
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It is very simple logic by gambit that you add extra thing on airframe that gives extra surface to radar, just like canards, you are in the denial mode Mr:hitwall:

Bhai calm down, it's not about denial. The difference is there, but it is marginal.

Secondly if you look at the IRST on an F16-Blk60 what do you see?

F16 E.JPG
F16 F.JPG
 
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Bhai calm down, it's not about denial. The difference is there, but it is marginal.

Secondly if you look at the IRST on an F16-Blk60 what do you see?

View attachment 250452 View attachment 250453
Not marginal but excessive, by your logic than why other 5th generation not have IRST, instead they are using ETOS, because expert s knows that IRST can give excessive RCS to the radar
 
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Not marginal but excessive, by your logic than why other 5th generation not have IRST, instead they are using ETOS, because expert s knows that IRST can give excessive RCS to the radar

Ok Bro, whatever floats your boat :tup:
 
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Because we do not have any hard data. I do not understand why you are so insistent on this. My arguments are technically sound and logical. Any fair minded person would come to the same conclusion I have. So am not going to repeat myself for your benefits. You are free to believe any which way you like. Finis.
Never give any data if its secretive. I know u already understand this.
 
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