Pak Army's mass mobilization strategy

[Signalian]

It would be nice if the para drop element is included in regular army exercises. What would be ultra cool is to see them practicing air drops with Al-Khalids and other heavy armor.

Sir,

An airborne tank is very different from MBT.

Read about BMD-1/2/3 and M551 Sheridan.

 

[CriticalThought]

Sir,

An airborne tank is very different from MBT.

Read about BMD-1/2/3 and M551 Sheridan.

Thanks for that. The airborne aspect would need to be considered at a design level. Hopefully this aspect will be considered during the ongoing upgrade work being done on AK. Maybe there will be an airborne variant in the future. Again, I might be hoping for too much!!!

 

[ebrahym]

First of all I want to note my own lack of knowledge of the terrain along the LoC. Also, my intention is to raise the topic and via this forum make sure relevant people are thinking about it.

As far as I know, the mountainous terrain along the LoC does not lend itself to mass mobilization of armor and infantry. If the Pak army is serious about freeing Kashmir at some point in the future, it needs a plan for mass mobilization. To me, the most optimal way is through air drops. This means having a large fleet of cargo aircraft and regular practice of air drops involving both infantry AND armor. Especially, I am unaware of any exercise by Pak army where air drops of armor have been practiced.

Moving away from LoC, let us discuss how such a maneuvor would unfold in practice. Air superiority will be a must, along with complete clearance of enemy's air defence. This will be followed by the actual drop.

The situations where such a technique could be employed are:

1. Completely unexpected flanking/surrounding of the enemy from behind, or from the sides. This will be beneficial in multiple theatres: the plains of Punjab, deserts of Thar and Cholistan, LoC, and the rugged mountains of Afghanistan.

2. Avoiding areas of high radioactivity. In case the Nasr comes into play in response to an Indian cold start, such a maneuvor would be highly beneficial to get own troops across radioactive areas.

In short, air mobilization is an extremely useful tool in the general's belt and I would like to see our army being capable of employing it as and when needed.

EDIT: After seeing multiple posters making the mistake, I need to point out this thread is about developing future capability rather than an analysis of current situation.

Airdrops..... certainly
but we are so obsessed with SSG that we still have not developed a dedicated Airborne formation
nor have we concluded the project of LCB(light combat battalion)
and adding to the shame we still lack a dedicated Light Infantries
in one world
we just dont learn and are blinded by our bewaja ka pride

 

[Signalian]

Thanks for that. The airborne aspect would need to be considered at a design level. Hopefully this aspect will be considered during the ongoing upgrade work being done on AK. Maybe there will be an airborne variant in the future. Again, I might be hoping for too much!!!

a delivery aircraft to para drop tank?

C-130 can air lift M-113, nothing above.

weight below 15 Tonnes is ideal. like BMD-4 or M-551

 

[Inception-06]

There is no airborne/air-assault infantry formation in PA except SF.

Yes we know that, but why not ? India has whole airborne Division compared in size and equipment with Pakistan.

we will see an entire airborne strike corps.

We even don't have the equipment and personal for a Division and you are dreaming about a Corps.

 

[CriticalThought]

We even don't have the equipment and personal for a Division and you are dreaming about a Corps.

No harm in dreaming. Sometimes dreams spark conversations which lead to real world changes.

 

[TheEmpire]

Not entirely true for air superiority as well as Air Defence.

There are two airstrips in pakistan located very close to LOC, Muzaffarabad and Rawalakot. Transport Aircraft dont need to fly hundreds of miles into India for Para drop. They need to fly a few miles over LOC, para drop behind enemy lines and fly back. They can get PAF escorts too.

The capacity of both airstrips needs to be seen, if its capable to undertake such operations in future.

C-130 is capable of landing and taking off from un-prepared/hastily prepared strips. If in any case, enemy takes out prepared runways, SSW has the capability to prepare new runways at multiple locations near the border or LOC. The PAF Survey section along with Army Aviation identifies such locations in peace time to be prepared in war if necessary.

Those airstrips are under the coverage of brahmos, in fact most of the airstips and critical pakistani installations are under the brahmos coverage. These assets will be the first one to be immediately taken out when a war happens. Also the continously histile situation between the two countries means there is a constant surveillance from both sides through satellites and other assets. So there is no chance of an element of surprise for either of the two countries.

 

[Fireurimagination]

To carry out such an operation first you will need air-superiority if not complete air dominance, which I believe is pretty hard to achieve for PAF. Secondly in case of war or a confrontation I believe India forces and formations will be concentrated on the western border including J&K so all you can achieve at most would be a surprise attack nothing else because without air dominance your para-dropped troops would be target practice for IAF inside Indian air-space.

 

[TheEmpire]

I agree. As I said in the OP, this is a tool and it would be nice if we could develop our ability to wield it.

Regarding the sinopak attack, it would probably be pre-synchronized and completely unexpected. In such a scenario, we could potentially mobilize before Uncle Sam could respond. Again, I agree we are dealing with hypotheticals here.

Another scenario is the need for PA to give support in Saudi Arabia/Qatar or even Turkey.

In the end, acquiring the fleet of aircraft needed to make this happen is remote. But developing the capability to perform the maneuver through exercises is important. In some of the more unlikely scenarios I listed above, the aircrafts could potentially be provided by allies.

How can a sino pak attack be completely unexpected? India always considers the threat scenario of a two front war and its capabilities are developed accordingly. Also India always recognises pakistan and china as hostiles and constantly monitors its borders with both countries through satellites and other means. For a large scale two pronged attack a massive build up would be required along both the borders and on air bases which will easily alert the indian establishment as well as uncle sam.

 

[Basel]

SSG does Paradrops using Airforce C130s just few miles out of Kamra Airbase, haven't seen Infantry Bois doing paradrops out of C130s, but Yes it will be a Sight to see Al-Khalids & other Heavy armors being Paradropped at FOBs...

I don't think AK fits well for airborne ops, but if required then Chinese route for airdrop capable IFVs / Tanks can be acquired, but for doing that PAF need big boost in terms of quality and quantity of transport and escort fleet, because India have large air force and ground based air defence which is very potent threat for that kind of ops.

 

[TheEmpire]

I agree. As I said in the OP, this is a tool and it would be nice if we could develop our ability to wield it.

Regarding the sinopak attack, it would probably be pre-synchronized and completely unexpected. In such a scenario, we could potentially mobilize before Uncle Sam could respond. Again, I agree we are dealing with hypotheticals here.

Another scenario is the need for PA to give support in Saudi Arabia/Qatar or even Turkey.

In the end, acquiring the fleet of aircraft needed to make this happen is remote. But developing the capability to perform the maneuver through exercises is important. In some of the more unlikely scenarios I listed above, the aircrafts could potentially be provided by allies.

Also all the allies u mentioned above operate on U.S. defense hardware and wont be allowed to transfer the hardware by USA. Saudis n qataris cant even transfer low level military hardware to rebels in syria without US approval. So no question of such hardware being transfered to attack so called new US ally.

 

[CriticalThought]

How can a sino pak attack be completely unexpected? India always considers the threat scenario of a two front war and its capabilities are developed accordingly. Also India always recognises pakistan and china as hostiles and constantly monitors its borders with both countries through satellites and other means. For a large scale two pronged attack a massive build up would be required along both the borders and on air bases which will easily alert the indian establishment as well as uncle sam.

Because if Pakistan were to regularly conduct such exercises, you would have no way of knowing whether a given build up is hostile or just another practice.

Also all the allies u mentioned above operate on U.S. defense hardware and wont be allowed to transfer the hardware by USA. Saudis n qataris cant even transfer low level military hardware to rebels in syria without US approval. So no question of such hardware being transfered to attack so called new US ally.

You are misunderstanding the scenario. This is not about attacking India, but helping our Muslim brothers. And I am not saying they will lend us their hardware. Rather, their pilots can fly the transports and give us a pick 'n' drop service. Nothing forbids that.

 

[TheEmpire]

Because if Pakistan were to regularly conduct such exercises, you would have no way of knowing whether a given build up is hostile or just another practice.

You are not getting it. If any countries conduct war exercises on the close proximity on an enemy countries borders, the enemy country defences always go into high alert mode. Yes cause they can't know if it's a real war prep or just an exercise. So what ur thinking is also taken into account by all countries. Again the element of surprise is lost.


You are misunderstanding the scenario. This is not about attacking India, but helping our Muslim brothers. And I am not saying they will lend us their hardware. Rather, their pilots can fly the transports and give us a pick 'n' drop service. Nothing forbids that.

Because if Pakistan were to regularly conduct such exercises, you would have no way of knowing whether a given build up is hostile or just another practice.

Lol dont bring such religious angle into argument. If you want to liberate ur muslim brothers then liberate entire muslim population of kashmir why only kashmir? And no those pick up and drop service is for war purpose so its not allowed my friend. Things dont work this way in defence procurements.

You are misunderstanding the scenario. This is not about attacking India, but helping our Muslim brothers. And I am not saying they will lend us their hardware. Rather, their pilots can fly the transports and give us a pick 'n' drop service. Nothing forbids that.

Because if Pakistan were to regularly conduct such exercises, you would have no way of knowing whether a given build up is hostile or just another practice.



You are misunderstanding the scenario. This is not about attacking India, but helping our Muslim brothers. And I am not saying they will lend us their hardware. Rather, their pilots can fly the transports and give us a pick 'n' drop service. Nothing forbids that.

You are not getting it. If any countries conduct war exercises on the close proximity on an enemy countries borders, the enemy country defences always go into high alert mode. Yes cause they can't know if it's a real war prep or just an exercise. So what ur thinking is also taken into account by all countries. Again the element of surprise is lost.

 

[CriticalThought]

You are not getting it. If any countries conduct war exercises on the close proximity on an enemy countries borders, the enemy country defences always go into high alert mode. Yes cause they can't know if it's a real war prep or just an exercise. So what ur thinking is also taken into account by all countries. Again the element of surprise is lost.

Here is how this plays out:

1. Pakistan conducts its 'exercise'. India is on high alert.

2. The first phase of a two pronged strike will involve taking out the communications infrastructure and air defence capabilities in a quick, surprise strike. Such an attack would be prepared months in advance with a wide range of intelligence.

3. From that point onwards, there will be a window of opportunity where Pakistan can make its move. Remember, Uncle Sam doesn't have forces ready 24x7 to come to India's aide.

Again, there are MANY variables in the above. I will be the first one to say we are dealing with hypotheticals here. Remember I am not advocating such an attack, nor am I predicting this to happen in the near future. But this is a pak defence forum and I am expressing my desire for Pak Army to have this capability. So relax.

 

[TheEmpire]

Here is how this plays out:

1. Pakistan conducts its 'exercise'. India is on high alert.

2. The first phase of a two pronged strike will involve taking out the communications infrastructure and air defence capabilities in a quick, surprise strike. Such an attack would be prepared months in advance with a wide range of intelligence.

3. From that point onwards, there will be a window of opportunity where Pakistan can make its move. Remember, Uncle Sam doesn't have forces ready 24x7 to come to India's aide.

Again, there are MANY variables in the above. I will be the first one to say we are dealing with hypotheticals here. Remember I am not advocating such an attack, nor am I predicting this to happen in the near future. But this is a pak defence forum and I am expressing my desire for Pak Army to have this capability. So relax.

No its ok I am also just critically evaluating this with you. Regarding your point no 2, how will u take out air defence n communication capabilities in a quick attack? Which assets will u use which wont give india any chance to block this attack. Cause as far as I know, india is always on high alert when it comes to pakistan border. Air defences n air forces along with assets like brahmos are alws kept war ready upto a certain level. Consider u do manage to take out some indian air defence n communications with f16 , since I assume tats ur main attack asset, india will immediately take out similar assets on pak side with brahmos. This will be a strong counter punch which will immediatedly puncture pak plans. But to get to tat level paf has to take out bigger iaf and multi layer air defence capabilities in just one or two strikes. Paf does not posses such capabilities. I think ur establishment has said tat paf is more defensive force.