Pak Army Atheist Soldier Decorated and Promoted.

[Men in Green]

And what happens if God forbid, Pakistani Islamic army is forced to fight in a war against another Islamic army from another Islamic nation? Will they be still fighting for religion?

Looks like you forgot the Torkham border

 

[M.SAAD]

Great news.


Nation and country should always be above religion ..

 

[venu309]

Wars fought for national interest , not for religion. In army top order has more value then order of all mighty . NZMZ.

I agree with your views Sir, my question was directed to the posters who had said that Pakistani army fights primarily for Islam.

 

[Pakistani E]

I respect him and his services, Pakistani Armed Forces is a truly unifying force in this country. Which other institution in this country allows Sunnis, Shias, Christians, Hindus, Atheists, Ahmadis, to stand shoulder to shoulder in the field of duty?

As for those who are instead of praising this great officer, concentrate on his religion (or lack off). I have always found these people to come from those who have done nothing for this country but just sat on their ugly behinds while the hard working men and women of this great nation toil and give sacrifices. Frankly, they are like insects to me, buzzing around in your ear creating a lot of nuisance but only good at pestering and spreading diseases.

 

[MystryMan]

Regarding a fella, I know - who is the son of a historically well known Sindhi Nationalist family, to cut a long story short this guy was bought up as an atheist.

This lad has had an awesome start to his career, he has served on both hostile borders and taken part in many of the COIN operations in the country.

Just recently learned through a mutual friend, that he has been decorated for services on the eastern border.

He has also been promoted, like the thread I posted about him before, his fellow Officers and Soldiers know of his thoughts and though some of them disagree, he is well respected and loved.

According to my information BBZ is interested in meeting him, because his family is one that you would never expect military service from, (some members of his family were separatists).

The PA has always had a true "secular" tradition, encouraging all of its sons and daughters to take part in the defence of the "mother" MOTHERLAND.

All the men and women, who serve the nation of whatever race, religion or creed, are to be respected, and saluted.

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

I'm just curious to know how a person with such a background (Sindhi nationalist/separtist/athesist) made a conscious decision of joining a national army of Islamic Republic of Pakistan whose motto is

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz please read below
Exactly but you will see people are using his job or service to put down the Muslim by comparing his work with come Muslims..I mean how come you start comparing an military uniformed person with a civilian for serving on the boarder.

Look, was it us that distracted from his service and focused on his religion. You should read the post I quoted when I said that as to 'why' I said it.

And for the nth time, acknowledging his service as a an atheist doesn't take away from acknowledging the service of many Muslims. If this conflict occurs in your head, understand that it's in your head only. I'm fine with both ideas being separate as I've said more than a few times now.

This is the job of the soldiers, they sign up for it willingly and also get paid for that so why bring religion (or lack of religion for that matter).. If he did, he did for his country and thousands of soldiers are doing so and I want to rather know the details of his work since frankly as per details in OP I don't any thing substantial or beyond the call of the duty..well if you are part of army, you will serve at whatever position and place you have been deployed whether it is COIN operations or guarding LOC.. Did he even got injured let alone die for the nation...so first of all..it must established for which specific task he has been decorated? or he is being awarded for being an "atheist" ...I really don't think that is such an achievement

Look, most of that is obvious. Put it this way, he has served despite being an atheist and that allows him the same respect as any other fellow servicemen regardless of religion. If you agree, then fine, if you don't then you need to explain why one man's service is superior to another. That is all I take issue with.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I for one don't question his service, but the side-effects of placing non-Muslims in key positions. Who gives the guarantee that such a person will not favor other atheists and non-Muslims? Who gives the guarantee that such a person will not abet the liberal lobby who want to expunge all traces of religion from the country? I am intimately aware of the 'fill the jails' tactics employed by the super elite in the final days of Musharraf. They were materially helped by Police officers who are mental slaves of beauty, wealth, Western degrees, and a good command of English. The same officials regard a bearded Muslim man with the utmost suspicion.

My reason to call out the promotion of non-Muslims is the very real bias faced by practicing Muslims in Pakistan.

Stoked by the powers vested in them, these liberals work at marginalizing Muslim interests. This is evident on this very forum where people are allowed to pour vitriol and hate against Islam, Muslims, and the fundamental tenets of our religion and belief.

You're afraid that a non-Muslim might be given preferential treatment and may in turn due to some internal evil or preference may also change the dynamics once in to favour their ideology? I'm sorry but I can't help you overcome these fears.

Tell me, why would it not be a problem if I took your same post and instead of you referring to atheist, we started talking about Muslims. Here's my attempt at holding a mirror up against your post, and you tell me whether you see the absurdity I am seeing in yours:

I for one don't question his service, but the side-effects of placing Muslims in key positions. Who gives the guarantee that such a person will not favor other Muslims? Who gives the guarantee that such a person will not abet the extremist and mullah lobby who want to expunge all traces of progress and modernity from the country? ....

^Imagine that was some westerner writing it about their army or civil service, I am sure you would take issue with your own logic if presented like that. But it is sufficient to point out why I don't agree with you.

My reason to call out the promotion of non-Muslims is the very real bias faced by practicing Muslims in Pakistan.

Stoked by the powers vested in them, these liberals work at marginalizing Muslim interests. This is evident on this very forum where people are allowed to pour vitriol and hate against Islam, Muslims, and the fundamental tenets of our religion and belief.

Sorry, but this victimhood mentality, and the idea that Islam is suppressed in Pakistan is a fantasy.
I reject this notion utterly.

@Jungibaaz U said he is doing better then many million Muslims, but isn't this his job , I did not put pistol (like many million other Muslims ) on his head and force him to join Army???????? So for u good doing of one Atheists = Millions of Muslims doing wrong?

No, you've not understood my post. I've already addressed this in post 27.

 

[farhan_9909]

Sorry Sir as per my best information atheist, Ahmadi can't join forces until unless they lied in recruitment form.
And a liar can't become good soldier.

Who told you so?I am not sure about atheists but everyone else including ahmadi's can join

 

[farhan_9909]

I am 100% sure since my own cousin fill this form before ISSB (required for ISSB) that I am declare that I am Muslim and does't now follow Ahmadiya or Lahori group. (In case a person choose Islam as religion)

for non-Muslims this section is not necessary.

Since ahmadi's are not muslim by constitution so they join as non muslim and they don't have to mark the option for Muslim.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

And muslim ummah will be leading it---.

Either one is with Ummet-i Muslimeen or with Ummet-i Mujrimeen. Unfortunately, there's no third party...

 

[farhan_9909]

They are doing it to get in services.


Yes but they are calling themselves Muslims and doing forgery by declaring them Muslims.

I am not sure but Ahmad's can join as Non Muslim

 

[newb3e]

Since you quoted me - I would not call it neutral either. But I will resist from making further posts explaining my position. I expect this to be a congratulatory thread instead of one of debate.

lols

 

[LeGenD]

I think fighting for the nation of states system is against the whole idea of being atheist. Why would such a person be willing to die for a country like Pakistan.

Why do you think that?

Atheist do not acknowledge existence of God but they may get the importance of statehood and the family.

As an example, why do you think people of all beliefs join the American Army?

 

[CriticalThought]

You're afraid that a non-Muslim might be given preferential treatment and may in turn due to some internal evil or preference may also change the dynamics once in to favour their ideology? I'm sorry but I can't help you overcome these fears.

Tell me, why would it not be a problem if I took your same post and instead of you referring to atheist, we started talking about Muslims. Here's my attempt at holding a mirror up against your post, and you tell me whether you see the absurdity I am seeing in yours:



^Imagine that was some westerner writing it about their army or civil service, I am sure you would take issue with your own logic if presented like that. But it is sufficient to point out why I don't agree with you.



Sorry, but this victimhood mentality, and the idea that Islam is suppressed in Pakistan is a fantasy.
I reject this notion utterly.



No, you've not understood my post. I've already addressed this in post 27.

Except that is exactly what 'Westerners' do. In Pakistan people have a very wrong perception of 'West', 'Westerner', and 'Liberalism'. And that is because sweet pills are administered through the pro-Western media about 'equality', 'tolerance' etc. Of course! Why wouldn't the non-Muslim West want to place non-Muslims in key positions of power in Muslim lands so they can forever control and manipulate them.

Now, in 'democratic', 'modern', 'liberal', 'Western' countries, they don't believe in all that B.S. No Sir! They don't. They believe in racist, bigoted, biased, anti-Islam, anti-Muslim policies. Let me open your eyes to the reality. Please meet "Pauline Hanson's One Nation' party in Australia. Now, before you think these are some small time, unimportant nobodies, please observe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Hanson's_One_Nation

At the 2016 election the party polled 4.3 per cent (+3.8) of the nation-wide primary vote in the Senate. Only Queensland polled higher for the party than their nation-wide percentage − the party polled 9.2 per cent (+8.6) of the primary vote in that state. Pauline Hanson (QLD) and three other One Nation candidates − Malcolm Roberts (QLD), Brian Burston (NSW) and Rod Culleton (WA) were elected to the Senate. Elected to the 3rd Queensland Senate spot, as per convention Hanson is serving a six-year term while the three other One Nation Senators who were elected in the last half of spots are serving three-year terms.

Here is the official mandate of this party. They got elected on the basis of this published agenda. Please note not just the vitriol, but also the outright lies, the deception, and the outright disinformation that is being spread.

http://www.onenation.com.au/policies/halal-certification

HALAL CERTIFICATION
Do you realise that you are paying a tax/surcharge that funds ISLAMIC SCHOOLS AND MOSQUES, when you do your shopping? What is also believed is that it funds terrorism.

In October 2010, news broke about how the Campbell’s Soup Company received an Islamic (halal) certification for some of its product line, and many were outraged. There was a legitimate concern – not with the fact that Campbell’s received the certification, but with what organisation the certification came from, that being the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) which is a group co-founded by Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) leader Sami al-Arian.

In 2007 and 2008, ISNA was named by the U.S. Justice Department as a co-conspirator for two federal trials dealing with the financing of millions of dollars to Hamas. The defendants of the trials were the leaders of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and HLF itself. In the end, each was found guilty of all charges.

Why should you as an Australian be concerned about Halal Certification?

By buying Halal certified products, it means that you are financially supporting the Islamisation of Australia, including Sharia Law, which opposes our Australian Constitution and democracy. The Halal certification fees extracted from companies would have to be passed on to the consumer as this is a large cost to them.

Australians are being forced, and we will use the word forced, to buy food that is Halal certified. This means food that has been subjected to approved certification systems, which guarantees to the consumer that nothing in the food has any forbidden components such as blood, pork, alcohol, and the flesh of carnivores or carrion, not to mention coming from an animal which has not been slaughtered in the correct manner (having its throat slit).

Halal certificates are issued, for a fee, by a certifying body. This system began in the 1980’s.

In France, the Halal food market is worth an estimated $7 Billion per annum

Companies in Australia don’t discuss what it costs them, as they have signed non-disclosure agreements. Yet we have been informed that one chicken manufacturer in Australia had to pay $40,000 per processing plant per annum, a milk producer has to pay $7,000 per annum and even a small confectionery manufacturer was quoted $1,800 per annum. These fees are passed onto the consumer, YOU.

The estimated worth of Halal accreditation worldwide is in excess of $2.5 trillion per annum.

Halal food by itself is not of concern. Nearly all food is naturally halal, meaning permissible under Islamic Sharia law. Observant Muslims can make food of unknown origin halal, by pronouncing ‘bismillah’ over their meals as a prayer. What is of concern is the recent invention of Halal certification schemes.

Halal certification is a money making racket. Other products with Halal certification include food essence, make up and cosmetics, clothing, transport, conveyor belts, cold storage, cleaning products, pet food, holidays, medicine and vitamins. The race is on to establish powerful international pharmaceutical ‘halal’ brands with an estimated worth of $500 billion per annum.

An example of non-food items that carry the Halal label is Neways International (Aust) based in Adelaide. Their products cover shampoos, conditioners, skin cleansers, creams and more.

Australian icon Cadbury paid to have the Halal certification on their Easter product range in 2014, even though Easter is a Christian celebration and nothing to do with Islam. It is reported 71 of Cadbury’s products are halal certified.

Other Australian iconic brands and names paying for Halal certification include, Coles and Woolworths white milk, sour cream and some bakery items, Aldi, Franklins, Kellogg’s Cornflakes and All Bran, MasterFoods, Sara Lee, Nestle, Bega Cheese, Dairy Farmers, Heinz, Colgate, Tassel, Stengel’s Chicken and Sanitarium’s Weet-Bix to name some out of a reported 900 Australian companies and growing.

This tax is an impost on the Australian consumer, of which 98% are non-Muslim. Australians are struggling to meet every day cost of living and should not be forced to pay extra. Another great concern is, that some of the monies indirectly supports terrorism. 60% of Halal food in France is controlled by an organisation belonging to the Muslim Brotherhood. Other taxes collected go to Islamic schools and mosques or directly in to the pockets of those who see this as a viable profit making business.

Pauline Hanson's One Nation will call for the banning of Australian and non-Australian companies operating in Australia from paying a Halal certification tax. Collecting monies for this certification will be illegal.

All products that are Halal Certified must be clearly marked and easily identified by consumers.

Companies that wish to export product to Muslim countries must gain Halal certification from our Government.

At the very end of the page
http://www.onenation.com.au/policies/immigration

One Nation believes that immigration should be open for debate and a population policy in place. Australians have the right to a cohesive society and deny immigration to anyone who does not abide by our law, culture, democracy, flag or Christian way of life. Australians have been tolerant and welcome new migrants coming to find a new homeland. We don’t want or need migrants bringing their problems, laws, culture and opposing religious beliefs on us.

http://www.onenation.com.au/policies/islam

Islam
Australia is a country built on Christian values. Our laws, way of life and customs enforced in the Australian Constitution were based on a secular society. Secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government or religion or religious practices upon the people.

Australia has embraced migrants from all different races, making us one of the most multiracial nations on earth. Most have assimilated and are proud to call themselves Australian, accepting our culture, beliefs, laws and way of life. But unfortunately, there are some who have come to our country with the goal of changing our way of life, taking away our freedom and terrorising those who want to live in a peaceful society. Those migrants are the extremist Muslims who are devout to the teachings of Islam and its leaders. All may not follow the teachings of the Qur’an, but if Jihad is called (applying any methods, including threats, deceit and ISIS-style warfare, to establish Islam as the dominant power, completely endorsed by Allah and Mohammed) where do their loyalties lie?

What is Islam and how does it impact on Australia?

Islam sees itself as a theocracy, not a democracy. Islam does not believe in democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of the press or freedom or assembly. It does not separate religion and politics. Many believe that it is solely a religion, but the reality is that it is much more, for it has a political agenda that goes far outside the realm of religion. Islam regulates the Muslim’s social and domestic life, their legal system and politics - their total life.

Its religious aspect is fraud; it is rather a totalitarian political system, including legal, economic, social and military components, masquerading as a religion. Islam is a constitutionally protected religion, as stated in Section 116 of the Australian Constitution. This means that Mosques, Islamic Schools and other Islamic institutions are void from paying tax. Being defined as ‘a religion’ it is considered ‘discriminatory’ for Islam to be questioned and this is shutting down any debate that we, as Australians, would like to have.

Islam is proving to be seditious against every nation and government on earth. Islam demands that all Muslims work to overthrow all nations, governments and non-sharia laws. We recently saw this written within a linked website, that was provided in the Australian Defence Force publication “Guide to Religion and Belief in the ADF.” Since being exposed by journalist Michael Smith, it has been removed, but it stated:

“It is not permissible for a Muslim to nominate himself in the hope that he can become part of a system which rules according to something other than that which Allaah has revealed and operates according to something other than the sharee’ah of Islam. It is not permissible for a Muslim to vote for him or for anyone else who will work in that government, unless the one who nominates himself or those who vote for him hope that by getting involved in that they will be able to change the system to one that operates according to the sharee’ah of Islam, and they are using this as a means to overcome the system of government, provided that the one who nominates himself will not accept any position after being elected except one that does not go against Islamic sharee’ah.”
- The scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas (Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood)

The same guide for Muslims in the ADF also stated:

"Democracy is a system that is contrary to Islam (because) legislative authority is given to someone other than Allah, may He be exalted. In these systems legislation has been promulgated allowing abortion, same-sex marriage and usurious interest (riba); the rulings of sharee‘ah have been abolished; and fornication/adultery and the drinking of alcohol are permitted. In fact this system is at war with Islam and its followers. - Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajid

Read the full article at: http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2016/01/adf-website-for-muslim-members-calls-for-overthrow-of-our-government-says-we-are-at-war-with-islam-a.html

Islam is the fastest growing ideology in the world. Muslims represent a world population of 1.6 Billion now and expected to be 2.3 Billion by 2050. Pew Research believe Australia’s Muslim population is currently at 2.4% and growing.

It has been noted throughout the world that as long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part, regarded as ‘a peace-loving minority and not a threat to other citizens.’

Australia is now seeing big changes in the suburbs which are predominately Muslim. Some of these suburbs include Lakemba, Auburn, Bankstown, Punchbowl and Villawood in Western Sydney, Tolerance toward other Australians or non-Muslim migrants is no longer the case. Our law courts are disrespected and prisons have become breeding grounds for extremist Muslims to radicalise inmates.

Terrorism is not only seen around the world but now a part of our history with Muslim refugees involved in the Lindt Café siege, the murder of a police civilian employee Curtis Cheng and the stabbing of the two police officers in Victoria. We have more Australian Muslims fighting for ISIS than we have in our defence force and ASIO has over 450 known terror suspects under surveillance. Civil tension is on the rise across the country, led by Australians feeling the impact of Islam in their lives and distaste for its beliefs.

The Halal certification ‘tax’ has been forced upon us costing Australians approx. $10 million a year. Halal certification is not a religious requirement but a money making racket by those profiteering from the greater population including Muslims themselves who are being told that they must buy these items. Halal Certification only started in Australia in 1974. What were Muslim’s eating before that? Non-Halal food can be consumed providing that the word “bismillah” (’in the name of God’) is said over the food as a prayer.

Christmas carols can no longer be sung at some schools, bibles will not be found in most hospitals, some public swimming baths have time set aside for Muslim women only, and drivers licences obtained by Muslim women allow them to wear the Burqa or Niquab. Prayer rooms are now provided in Universities, hospitals, schools, airports and shopping centres to accommodate Muslims; this includes Islamic prayer rooms in Christian schools.

There are some Muslims who want to see Sharia Law introduced in Australia. This law is the totalitarian social code, which prescribes harsh feudal rules imposed on everything, firstly for Muslims, later for everyone. It has been reported that Sharia Law is already being practiced in Australia, within Family Law.

There are some Islamic terms that all Australians should be aware of. If Islam itself was a tolerant, non-discriminatory, non-deceptive and progressive culture, why do the following definitions exist?

Dhimmi is any non-Muslim (Christian or Jew) allowed to live and pay tax (jizya) under domination of Islam and treated as a second-class citizen in his or her own country.

Hijra is Muslim colonization of other lands (Australia) through migration.

Kaffir is any non-Muslim (us), the lowest rank of being, worthy of contempt, should be ruled over by Muslims.

Taqiyya is deliberate deception and lying to protect or advance Islam, by concealing its real agenda; One message to guide the Muslims, a separate one to fool the media and Kaffir.

Islam has no place in Australia if we are to live in a cohesive society. We have seen the destruction it is having around the world. If we do not make the necessary changes now to stop the advancement of Islam in Australia, there will be no hope in the future. Do you want your children and grandchildren to be living under Sharia Law and treated as a second-class citizen with no rights? We don’t!

Pauline Hanson’s One Nation Policy

We will enact the following:

• Call for an inquiry or Royal Commission to determine if Islam is a religion or political ideology
  
  
• Stop further Muslim Immigration and the intake of Muslim refugees until we can assure the safety of Australians
  
  
• Ban the Burqa and Niquab in public places
  
  
• Driver’s licence cannot be obtained without showing the full face and having photo ID on driver’s licence
  
  
• Surveillance cameras to be installed in all Mosques and schools. Mosques to be open to the public during all opening hours
  
  
• No more mosques to be built until the inquiry is held
  
  
• Oppose the introduction of Sharia Law
  
  
• Investigate welfare payments paid to Muslims who may be in multiple marriages, having multiple children
  
  
• Ban Halal certification. Halal certified food not to be provided in prisons or the armed services. Companies may comply for export but no monies must be paid
  
  
• Call for a referendum to change Section 116 of the Australian Constitution
  
  
• Muslims will not be allowed to be sworn in to Parliament under the Qur’an
  
  
• Female genital mutilation to carry lengthy jail term

And anti-Islam diatribe is part of the Australian political process:

Here is the reality @Jungibaaz and since you are an intelligent person I believe you already know this, but you feign ignorance because throwing around 'tolerance', 'equality' etc. serves your purpose. The reality is that everywhere people try to protect their way of life. The Islamic way of life in a Muslim country is a system in which Islam informs everything from matters of state to matters of personal life. Here is how Hazrat Umar May Allah be Pleased with him used to appoint people into office:

From Hayat-us-Sahabah Vol 2

Who Qualifies to be an Ameer?
Those who Know Most Qur'aan Qualify to be Ameer
Hadhrat Abu Hurayrah (May Allah be Pleased with him) narrates that Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam once dispatched an exceptionally large expedition. Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam made each one of them recite whatever portion of the Qur'aan he knew. When Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam came to a man who was one of the youngest and asked him what portion of the Qur'aan he knew, he named several Surahs that he knew including Surah Baqara. "Do you know Surah Baqara?" Rasulullaall Sallallahi 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam enquired. When the man replied in the affirmative, Rasulullaah Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam said, "Go ahead! You are now their Ameer."

Now you can argue that in the military we need certain attributes to be an officer, but the point is most definitely a non-Muslim cannot be appointed officer or 'ameer' over Muslims. That is, if we want to follow the teachings of Holy Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam.

 

[New World]

Regarding a fella, I know - who is the son of a historically well known Sindhi Nationalist family, to cut a long story short this guy was bought up as an atheist.

This lad has had an awesome start to his career, he has served on both hostile borders and taken part in many of the COIN operations in the country.

Just recently learned through a mutual friend, that he has been decorated for services on the eastern border.

He has also been promoted, like the thread I posted about him before, his fellow Officers and Soldiers know of his thoughts and though some of them disagree, he is well respected and loved.

According to my information BBZ is interested in meeting him, because his family is one that you would never expect military service from, (some members of his family were separatists).

The PA has always had a true "secular" tradition, encouraging all of its sons and daughters to take part in the defence of the "mother" MOTHERLAND.

All the men and women, who serve the nation of whatever race, religion or creed, are to be respected, and saluted.

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

I know some people who are from the family of Separatists or from the clan of those separatists..
.
member of nawab akhbar's family was my teacher in uni.. and Hafeez Pirzada's relative was also happens to be a teacher

most of the institution in sindh which prepare candidates for CSS and PCS are atheist, communists or nationalists...

and most people of Sindh are Nationalists. they dont care much about religion...