Pak air force narrows gap as IAF struggles to get fighter jets

[CriticalThought]

ok kid lets start

1. what if i told you that you might have nars & shaheen and so called ababeel (of which you have done only one test & think its oprational wow )

what if i told you we already have four layered PESA &AESA radar network backed mu multiple SR, MR & LR and now AAD , PAD while S300 PMU is been ther for quite some time and we already made deal for S400 and talks on for Arrow 3

2. well do you have any idea about indian bombers and what is acyutaly a stealth bomber and will chinese sell you stealth bomber ? first try getting those 8 F16s without CSF or WR for USA then dream of so called stealth bombers

3.a bhramos takes to its traget at mach 2.3 and you do not have anything to stop when all your prime assets are just within its range (50-250 km from indian border) rest speulate yourself

4. do you have any idea about the BVRs and PGMs , LGBs and other guided air to surface missiles of IAF we got fro russia,france & israel over the years

5.and does JF17 eve has AESA but but wait MKI does have BARS IBRIS-E Hybrid PESA-AESA radar which is one of a kind first among the transition russians made the first genration AESA you can say which american wanted us to switch on many times in red flag exercises but we dint google it kid

do you know peak powr out out of JF17 radar and what is peak power out put of MKI radar go google it and its relevence in EW im sure you will find it revolutionary concept

6. and last but not the least this is the age of multi tasking and indian sir force is going that way all our fighters like MKI , M2K & Fulkrums have massive EW+ECM+Jammer suits even jaguars are getting israeli EL2052 AESA radars with Derby ER BVRs which are cnsiderred better than AIM120D (we also have latest gen russian R77 & french MICA & Israeli DERBY, I DERBY ER & Python5 VWRs)

so kid if you have no idea what IAF has right now cause if have not even told you about the PGMs, LGBs , SDBs or Glide bombs or anty radiation bombs /missiles and all those different smart pods we have plus the fact we are practising with singaporean air force F16 staioned in india for at least a decade with all the best tactics and inputs from israeli instrutors and pilots about your F16s so dont think we dont know about you and your prime assets and how to handle them rst you can speculate yourself

in short there is a reason why neither PAF nor PLAAF is ready to engage IAF in a direct or indirect mode cause they know the kind of sting we can diliver its only the arm chair general and fan boys who dont know keep making fun of IAF

1.. if you try to do that then forget your whole country because India already said if any one use any type of nuclear weapons against our forces in any part of world in any country then we consider it a nuclear war and at, that time there is a no chance of survival of Pakistan...

2.. hope u don't know that India recently done a deal with Russia for a supersonic bomber .., and about the ballistic missile defense I don't know u here about , AAD or not if not Pls do .. and pls also study about Barak 8 system which is one of the most advanced anti cruise missiles defence system..

3.. yep, sukhoi have large radar signature but how your going to counter it nd remember sukhoi will locate your any fighter jets before you locate them and with bvr of sukhoi u will defenetly see heavens.. nd do some research sukhoi is also upgrading to super sukhoi with aesa radar...and, India mainly brought the Rafael for there missile system...

4.. are you seriously idiot or assume others idiot first brought some money for some potent 4th generation aircraft... nd leave that j7 Chinese upgrade with metal body... nd until you get 5th generation aircraft India have both rafales, and also FGFA...

OK. One of you gentlemen is already banned, but I'll address the concerns for posterity. Also, you guys are making overlapping statements so to save time I'll give a general answer. If you have specific points after that, feel free to raise them.

1. About Nasr etc. The 'four layer' shield is giving you a false sense of security. Each component of that shield has different capabilities in terms of the velocity and range at which it can intercept. So, for example, you won't be employing S-300 to counter Nasr. So given a certain missile, Pakistan knows exactly which systems can counter it, and how to circumvent that. For example, through a saturation attack. Also, India is a big country. Yes, you have all those radars, but your entire country is not protected by a four layer network. You aren't the 'impregnable fortress' that you believe you are. If you really wanted to make all of India from Laddakh to Andaman Islands an 'impregnable fortress', you will bankrupt your entire nation, notwithstanding the 'trillion dollar' economy.

2. About 'upgraded xyz fighter'. Understand that most of you fighters are for point defence. When you send them for offense, they get shot down. They get show down, by shoulder fired missiles. This is important to understand. Majority of your fighters can be tracked from the ground and shot down by either shoulder fired or larger SAMs.

3. You are the invading airforce, invading a country that is very well defended. Pakistan's smaller size means it is also very easy to cover with our defensive systems. Imagine this, soon we will have 9 AWACS. India is approx. 4 times larger. Do you have 36 state of the art AWACS? Similarly, the coverage of our air defence systems is denser because of smaller area.

4. From an offensive point of view, your best bet currently is M2K and Tejas/Rafale when and if you acquire them in sufficient quantities. As I explained already, regardless of the ECM capabilities of Su-30 MKI, it is a lighthouse in the air. You shouldn't really brag about it.

And so now you see we are in a very good position relative to India for defending our borders. Alhamdolillah.

 

[Panzerkampf]

magine this, soon we will have 9 AWACS. India is approx. 4 times larger. Do you have 36 state of the art AWACS? Similarly, the coverage of our air defence systems is denser because of smaller area.

We don't need 36 awacs at all.
There is zero need of Awacs in south or north India.
We need about 6 awacs in north and 2 in Gujarat, Maharashtra coast.

 

[CriticalThought]

We don't need 36 awacs at all.
There is zero need of Awacs in south or north India.
We need about 6 awacs in north and 2 in Gujarat, Maharashtra coast.

Hey, its your country, you know best how to defend it. Our job is to know how best to attack it. Make our life simpler!

 

[Panzerkampf]

Hey, its your country, you know best how to defend it. Our job is to know how best to attack it. Make our life simpler!

Yes we know and we know that there are no threats requiring awacs in south or east.

 

[hell9214]

OK. One of you gentlemen is already banned, but I'll address the concerns for posterity. Also, you guys are making overlapping statements so to save time I'll give a general answer. If you have specific points after that, feel free to raise them.

1. About Nasr etc. The 'four layer' shield is giving you a false sense of security. Each component of that shield has different capabilities in terms of the velocity and range at which it can intercept. So, for example, you won't be employing S-300 to counter Nasr. So given a certain missile, Pakistan knows exactly which systems can counter it, and how to circumvent that. For example, through a saturation attack. Also, India is a big country. Yes, you have all those radars, but your entire country is not protected by a four layer network. You aren't the 'impregnable fortress' that you believe you are. If you really wanted to make all of India from Laddakh to Andaman Islands an 'impregnable fortress', you will bankrupt your entire nation, notwithstanding the 'trillion dollar' economy.

2. About 'upgraded xyz fighter'. Understand that most of you fighters are for point defence. When you send them for offense, they get shot down. They get show down, by shoulder fired missiles. This is important to understand. Majority of your fighters can be tracked from the ground and shot down by either shoulder fired or larger SAMs.

3. You are the invading airforce, invading a country that is very well defended. Pakistan's smaller size means it is also very easy to cover with our defensive systems. Imagine this, soon we will have 9 AWACS. India is approx. 4 times larger. Do you have 36 state of the art AWACS? Similarly, the coverage of our air defence systems is denser because of smaller area.

4. From an offensive point of view, your best bet currently is M2K and Tejas/Rafale when and if you acquire them in sufficient quantities. As I explained already, regardless of the ECM capabilities of Su-30 MKI, it is a lighthouse in the air. You shouldn't really brag about it.

And so now you see we are in a very good position relative to India for defending our borders. Alhamdolillah.

1.Bro first see your nasr, missile range and in that range it can't attack deep inside India and for that type of missile India has Barak 8,missiles if you know that and India don't have to deploy in all country we mainly new near the border to track any incoming things...

2.for the offensive missions India have jaguar, mirage 2000, Mig 27, Mig 21, Mig 29 its all make around 200 aircraft sufficient for Pakistan and remember all are upgraded to latest specifications..

3.so, what you think India is, a fool by jst going inside Pakistan India first take out your air defense with missile like brahmos..
And India has also phalcon awacs which is better than Chinese one and India is also making its, own awacs with Israel.. and India mainly need this awacs in Pakistan border and with phalcon awacs range when this will remain 100 kilometers inside Indian territory it can track cover most part of Pakistan territory..

4. I told u before mirage nd jaguar a fully upgrading with aesa radar so, its also too high for Pakistan.

 

[Windjammer]

If it was, Tejas would have been the front-line fighter and not the MKI or Rafale. Unfortunately, you guys have to claim the JF-17 is the "game-changer"..of course insecurities because of that would be a natural byproduct or illusions, both of which we witness in plenty with the fanboys here on PDF.

No body claims that JF-17 is the game changer however it has certain qualities to eventually become backbone of the PAF....insecurities indeed, while the JF-17 is already operational with five squadrons undertaking combat missions, the weekend warriors drag in the likes of Rafale and even Tejas which are barely and even no where on the horizon.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

No body claims that JF-17 is the game changer however it has certain qualities to eventually become backbone of the PAF....insecurities indeed, while the JF-17 is already operational with five squadrons undertaking combat missions, the weekend warriors drag in the likes of Rafale and even Tejas which are barely and even no where on the horizon.

Because we can wait With around 240 sukhois, 60 Mig 29s, 50 Mirage 2000 and 45 Mig 29K we still outnumber your 70 Jf 17 and 74 F 16s. if a war were to happen right today. And we are not even considering the 3rd gen aircrafts in our Arsenal. We can afford to wait for Tejas and Rafale to come which is already happening. But you cannot afford to cut slack as you already lost a decade doing nothing.

If you are banking on JF 17 as your backbone then I think that you are making a huge mistake.

 

[MULUBJA]

Hi,

The comparison of 1.6:1 or 1.8:1 is wrong---. That is just the number.

In true sense the numbers favor the indian air force---their SU30 has twice the weapons load and 5 times the bvr missile load of a pakistani fighter aircraft---.

So---in bvr mission mode---it becomes 5:1 and those are great odds---but if one SU is taken out---it is like 5 aircraft power taken out---.

What about UPG Mirage and MIg 29s?

 

[Windjammer]

Because we can wait With around 240 sukhois, 60 Mig 29s, 50 Mirage 2000 and 45 Mig 29K we still outnumber your 70 Jf 17 and 74 F 16s. if a war were to happen right today. And we are not even considering the 3rd gen aircrafts in our Arsenal. We can afford to wait for Tejas and Rafale to come which is already happening. But you cannot afford to cut slack as you already lost a decade doing nothing.

If you are banking on JF 17 as your backbone then I think that you are making a huge mistake.

IAF always maintained something like 4:1 numerical superiority so no surprises there, the PAF was in a worse situation both in 2002 and 2008 and despite having most of the above mentioned equipment, the IAF lost the appetite for battle and i suggest you read recent statements by the IAF airchief and others on IAF losing the edge.
Considering the most recent events, there couldn't be a better choice than JF-17 to become PAF workhorse.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pak-...-as-iaf-struggles-to-get-fighter-jets.496575/

 

[ShoutB]

IAF always maintained something like 4:1 numerical superiority so no surprises there, the PAF was in a worse situation both in 2002 and 2008 and despite having most of the above mentioned equipment, the IAF lost the appetite for battle and i suggest you read recent statements by the IAF airchief and others on IAF losing the edge.
Considering the most recent events, there couldn't be a better choice than JF-17 to become PAF workhorse.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pak-...-as-iaf-struggles-to-get-fighter-jets.496575/

We know what we have and we know what you have. Unneccesary conflict is waste of time.
The current air superiority not just depends on aircraft but electronic warfare and reaction time.

 

[el nino]

Where do people get this 4 to 1 superiority nos from

The most numbers Iaf ever had was 39 sqds and 770 planes in 70S and 80S
Pakistan has always maintained 350/400.fighters, IE 24 sqds.

Stop making rubbish claims

There s a 3 to 1, superiority in fourth generation fighters today IAdmittly

 

[satishkumarcsc]

IAF always maintained something like 4:1 numerical superiority so no surprises there, the PAF was in a worse situation both in 2002 and 2008 and despite having most of the above mentioned equipment, the IAF lost the appetite for battle and i suggest you read recent statements by the IAF airchief and others on IAF losing the edge.
Considering the most recent events, there couldn't be a better choice than JF-17 to become PAF workhorse.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pak-...-as-iaf-struggles-to-get-fighter-jets.496575/

IAF chiefs have always been crying for more budgets and it is not a big deal. IAF has not lost any appetite for batle..infact their appetite for shiny new weapons has increased.

JF 17 is an outdated concept like the Tejas. It does not have the deep penetration strike capability and can only be used as a point defence interceptor. If also does not have the capability to do any massive damage with its pay loads. Both these projects according to me is to build ones own aircraft development environment.

 

[Windjammer]

We know what we have and we know what you have. Unneccesary conflict is waste of time.
The current air superiority not just depends on aircraft but electronic warfare and reaction time.

While one may know their own capabilities, he can only speculate on others. The fear of unknown has always haunted human conscious.... else US would have attacked North Korea without a second thought.
BTW, it was the reaction time by the PAF which made IAF stand down in 2008.

 

[ShoutB]

While one may know their own capabilities, he can only speculate on others. The fear of unknown has always haunted human conscious.... else US would have attacked North Korea without a second thought.
BTW, it was the reaction time by the PAF which made IAF stand down in 2008.

Wrong analysis.
US if wishes can anytime anhiliate NoKo without a single thought. But never become an instigator.

Coming to 2008, well some actions are done deliberatelly to have a reaction. If PAF was serious, they would have considered shooting down IAF. That was the check to measure the seriousness of PAF.

 

[Windjammer]

Wrong analysis.
US if wishes can anytime anhiliate NoKo without a single thought. But never become an instigator.

Coming to 2008, well some actions are done deliberatelly to have a reaction. If PAF was serious, they would have considered shooting down IAF. That was the check to measure the seriousness of PAF.

No doubt, US can pulverize NK but it would take NK to fire just one shot even at Japan or SK for US to consider it's actions.... I'm glad that unlike your country-fellows, you know and admit that IAF aircraft were intercepted by PAF.
However there's another story to this tale, regarding a certain phone call to Zardari.