Pak-Afghan Unification

[Kompromat]

The identities you are attributing to people, were formed thousands of years after these civilizations began. Its like calling Alexander the Great a Yugoslavian. Hope you understand, nut saab.

Im not responsible for your ignorance.

Indo-Persian is a culture that existed due to the mixture of Muslims and Hindus.
Indo-Persian culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indo-Persian civilization points to the spread of modern civilizational structures from the ancient Persian civilization to the people of Indus (us). Muslims - Hindu thing is very recent.

 

[A Town]

Indo-Persian civilization points to the spread of modern civilizational structures from the ancient Persian civilization to the people of Indus (us). Muslims - Hindu thing is very recent.

There doesn't seem to be any other use of the term, also I'm not sure were the rule that it has to be west of the Indus came from.

 

[himalayah]

Im not responsible for your ignorance.

You are for your own. So rectify it, look into academic journals rather than your dreams for knowledge of history. Don't trust me. Study the movement of peoples, origin of civilization in this part of the world, from as many credible, peer reviewed scholarly perspectives as possible.

 

[l'ingénieur]

I don't mind but first all the militants on both sides need to die and the idea of terrorism needs to fade away.

 

[A Town]

You are for your own. So rectify it, look into academic journals rather than your dreams for knowledge of history. Don't trust me. Study the movement of peoples, origin of civilization in this part of the world, from as many credible, peer reviewed scholarly perspectives as possible.

It's a very interesting theory though, that everyone west of the Indus is "Indo-Persian" and that these "Indo-Persians" civilised the savages to the east of the Indus.

 

[Kompromat]

There doesn't seem to be any other use of the term, also I'm not sure were the rule that it has to be west of the Indus came from.

Because the Persian civilization had Indus as its border in modern day Pakistan and didn't spread further. Our ancestors from the Indus valley civilization, traded and seeded civilizational structure from the Persians which is why the west of Indus bank is classified as Indo-Persian.

Persian Civilization predates the IVC

IVC and Harappa were our ancestors which handed civilizational structure to other parts of India. The Indo-Aryan migration as it is believed also happened through what today is Pakistan to India.

In turn, IVC is a successor to the Persian civilization which was a successor to the Babylonians.

 

[KingMamba]

The identities you are attributing to people, were formed thousands of years after these civilizations began. Its like calling Alexander the Great a Yugoslavian, or Hannibal as Turkish. Hope you understand, nut saab.

Alexander was Macedonian, the majority of Macedonia is in Greece today hence he is Greek heritage. Hannibal being Turkish now that is a strange one since Carthaginians were Semites and Carthage was in Tunisia making it a part of their heritage. So what was your point exactly?

 

[Kompromat]

Alexander was Macedonian, the majority of Macedonia is in Greece today hence he is Greek heritage. Hannibal being Turkish now that is a strange one since Carthaginians were Semites and Carthage was in Tunisia making it a part of their heritage. So what was your point exactly?

His point is that whatever his history has been told to him is the only truth he's willing to buy, including the myths of Aryan invasion. Cilizational spread is very well documented. Its for every individual to educate themselves.

 

[KingMamba]

Because the Persian civilization had Indus as its border in modern day Pakistan and didn't spread further. Our ancestors from the Indus valley civilization, traded and seeded civilizational structure from the Persians which is why the west of Indus bank is classified as Indo-Persian.

Persian Civilization predates the IVC

IVC and Harappa were our ancestors which handed civilizational structure to other parts of India. The Indo-Aryan migration as it is believed also happened through what today is Pakistan to India.

In turn, IVC is a successor to the Persian civilization which was a successor to the Babylonians.

Uh disagree IVC predates the Persian empires. It was around during the same time as the Babylonians and the Nile valley civilizations. You got dates messed up bro

 

[Kompromat]

Uh disagree IVC predates the Persian empires. It was around during the same time as the Babylonians and the Nile valley civilizations. You got dates messed up bro

Not talking about the Persian empire but the Persian civilization. I have not been talking about imperial structures but the civilizational spread all along.

 

[himalayah]

Because the Persian civilization had Indus as its border in modern day Pakistan and didn't spread further. Our ancestors from the Indus valley civilization, traded and seeded civilizational structure from the Persians which is why the west of Indus bank is classified as Indo-Persian.

Persian Civilization predates the IVC

IVC and Harappa were our ancestors which handed civilizational structure to other parts of India. The Indo-Aryan migration as it is believed also happened through what today is Pakistan to India.

In turn, IVC is a successor to the Persian civilization which was a successor to the Babylonians.

See your confusion. IVC is a successor to Persian civilization? You are showing a map of the Achaemenids (middle of 6th century BC). and saying its a predecessor to IVC (3500 BC or earlier). That's why I say, seek knowledge, don't fabricate it and bring grave embarrassment to yourself in the process.

Indo Aryan migration theories, the evolutionary timeline of Vedic civilization, the nature of Harappan people's origins, from where/how they migrated to the Indus plains, can all be discussed once you take a cursory glance at the dates and overview of these at least, and not spout rubbish as you did in the rest of your post.

edit: I'll pre empt your further looking at a primary school encyclopaedia then proclaiming some new "facts". The Elamites were somewhat contemporaries or a bit earlier than early Indus valley civilization. They were dark skinned people, unrelated to Persians/Parthians and other Iranic people, who invaded the Iranian plateau about the time Indus valley was in decline and Harrappans were themselves migrating east. Only difference is, Elamite language/culture became all but extinct by the time of the empire posted in your first map, whereas scholars think either a merger, evolution or distinct development of Vedic culture followed IVC in the central Indo-Gangetic plains.

Alexander was Macedonian, the majority of Macedonia is in Greece today hence he is Greek heritage. Hannibal being Turkish now that is a strange one since Carthaginians were Semites and Carthage was in Tunisia making it a part of their heritage. So what was your point exactly?

If you see the ridiculous debates about this, where he was born and spent his days, and the pedantry with which "Macedonian" Slavs argue with Greeks over this, you would understand.

Hannibal is more directed to Aeronut personally, because many Pakistanis claim that as long as preachers/warriors died in Lahore or other areas of present day Pakistan, they are the exclusive heritage of Pakistanis. Hannibal by some accounts died in Gezbe modern Turkey, even though he was born in North Africa. Both examples are intertwined.

Point is, drawing lines on history, like 20th century colonialists did on land, will only lead to confused and ridiculous posts like that of the admin above.

 

[KingMamba]

Not talking about the Persian empire but the Persian civilization. I have not been talking about imperial structures but the civilizational spread all along.

Persian civilizational influence began after Cyrus united them before that they were not relevant as a major civilization. The Mesopotamian (Babylon), Nile River and Indus Valley Civilizations are considered the cradles of civilizations as they were the only advanced civilizations of the "old world". Simply put our IVC predates ancient Persia (as great as it was) itself.

Btw the map you posted with borders is the empire formed after Cyrus by Darius the Great and you are right that its borders extended up to the Indus river so you were right about everything else.

If you see the ridiculous debates about this, where he was born and spent his days, and the pedantry with which "Macedonian" Slavs argue with Greeks over this, you would understand.

Hannibal is more directed to Aeronut personally, because many Pakistanis claim that as long as preachers/warriors died in Lahore or other areas of present day Pakistan, they are the exclusive heritage of Pakistanis. Hannibal by some accounts died in Gezbe modern Turkey, even though he was born in North Africa. Both examples are intertwined.

Point is, drawing lines on history, like 20th century colonialists did, will only lead to confused and ridiculous posts like that of the admin above.

The Macedonian slavs argue about such things because they named their country after something that never was within its own borders. If you look at the map of ancient Macedonia and current slavic Macedonia you will realize their position is hilariously wrong. It has nothing to do with the heritages of countries who claims things within its own lands.

Except Hannibal died in exile after the fall of Carthage he did not conquer his way to Turkey he just happened to be there at the invite of I believe it was the Seleucids. Hence Turks do not consider him a part of their heritage although for tourists purposes if they have his tomb I bet it comes in handy. So no the examples are not intertwined.

Pakistan only claims Kings that ruled over Pakistan as part of its heritage but no where does Pakistan say it is "exclusive heritage", obviously if the borders of the Kingdom extended to other nations then it is a part of their heritage as well.

 

[Kompromat]

Persian civilizational influence began after Cyrus united them before that they were not relevant as a major civilization. The Mesopotamian (Babylon), Nile River and Indus Valley Civilizations are considered the cradles of civilizations as they were the only advanced civilizations of the "old world". Simply put out IVC predates ancient Persia (as great as it was) itself.

Btw the map you posted with borders is the empire formed after Cyrus by Darius the Great and you are right that its borders extended up to the Indus river so you were right about everything else.

Huzoor - All civilizations flourished during the Bronze Age - the IVC and ancient Persian Civilization (ELAM) along with the Parthians existed together, around the same time. All Bronze age civilizations were situated around major rivers like the Ancient Egypt around the Nile (Starting from the stone age), Mesopotamia around Tigris–Euphrates rivers, Elam around Iranian plateau, Indus valley around the Indus river and Yellow river in ancient China. I didn't talk about the Persian Achaemenid empire, they were much younger and belonged to the late Iron age.

The point i have been trying to make is that our civilizational connections with the Indo-Iranic/Persian cultures and subcultures are ancient, therefore it is possible that our cultures can exist under new political set ups as they have in the past.

 

[KingMamba]

Huzoor - All civilizations flourished during the Bronze Age - the IVC and ancient Persian Civilization (ELAM) along with the Parthians existed together, around the same time. All Bronze age civilizations were situated around major rivers like the Nile (Starting from the stone age), Mesopotamia around Tigris–Euphrates rivers, Elam around Iranian plateau, Indus valley around the Indus river and Yellow river in ancient China. I didn't talk about the Persian Achaemenid empire, they were much younger and belonged to the late Iron age.

The point i have been trying to make is that our civilizational connections with the Indo-Iranic cultures and subcultures are ancient, therefore it is possible that our cultures can exist under new political set ups as they have in the past.

Ok then yeah I agree, I think the map threw everyone off.

 

[The SC]

Its like oil and water not going to happen. Even terrorists who wants to see a unified Islamic state from Europe to North Africa to ME to Asia. Is that really going to happen?

So, every one who wants a united Muslim State(s) is a terrorist in your mind. So only you are allowed to live in a 50+
states united under one flag, meaning from what I understand from you is that your founding fathers were terrorists.