PAF's First Aggressor Unit TDS

[SQ8]

Just my opinion, 530D/F are absolutely no match with AIM-120C.

Nothing compares to the Aim-120

Basically

There are the proponents of the F-16(which still remains the perfect fighter for the PAF whenever the Air Staff start gaming requirements versus balance thing) and the M2k(those who want a strike fighter)

In the end
Technical studies & the history if projects have their various proponents & opponents- suffice to say Ive written enough technical and historical facts as to why the F-16 was always the better option as a multirole mainstay and why the M2k was an excellent strike option but not at that price; just don't want to repeat it all again.

The rest is whatever people prefer to suit their narrative, to each their own.

 

[Awan68]

Thanks to ALLAH , PAK forces are changing there "Defensive" force doctrine(looks like). Current doctrine of PAF and PN is against Islam , Quran and any modern warfare strategy .
You and your forces are useless if they cant go in to Enemy territory. simple , Isnt it?

So you think the defensive strategy of the state of Medina under holy prophet(pbuh) for almost a decade was unislamic and against quran???
Incursion into enemy territory and offense as a form of defence is not considered as an offensive strategy per se.... In the classical defination of the term only the Us has a proper offensive military strategy and the assets to back it up, other powers such as Russia, China etc all have defensive strategies.
Having a defensive strategy doesnt mean we will not strike at the heart of the enemy in its own den, infact offence is the best defence in some cases and for that we have two strike cores and PAF is well equipped to take the fight into enemy skies but our objectives will be defensive as we neither have the economic resources nor the military assets to occupy enemy territory for long periods of time, in short as how things stand right now our objective is and always has been not to lose even an inch of territory to the enemy.
To become a truely offensive military we need to score high on the economic front. An offensive regional military doctrine rests upon two pillars, economics and a true blue water navy with high end amphibious assault capabilities with a propotionate naval air arm to back it up. Our economics simply dont allow that for the moment.
There are many forms of offense and those who have closely studied pak indo history know that Pakistan has been tenfolds more agressive and offensive than india contrary to popular belief.
P. S: its the muslim in us.....

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan sahib is a senior and respectful member hence i don't like to contradict him.
From the period of Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, despite Mirages and F-6s flying constant CAPs, no worthwhile success was achieved against intruding Afghan/Soviet aircraft....mostly because they adopted hit 'n' run tactics....not until an F-16 managed to shoot down an SU-22 in May 1986....and all subsequent a dozen or so kills were also achieved by the Fighting Falcons.




17 May 1986 Sqn. Ldr. A. Hameed Qadri
No. 9 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
(S. No. 82-723)

PAF Sargodha 2 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s Shot down both Su-22s in a single sortie 16,000 ft. over Parachinar, Pakistan. 1 AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill, 1 Gun Kill.

30 March 1987 Wng. Cdr. Abdul Razzaq
No. 9 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
PAF Sargodha 1 Soviet/Afghan An-26 Shot down near Miranshah, Pakistan while on a recce mission.

16 April 1987 Sqn. Ldr. Badar Islam
No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet/Afghan Su-22 Shot down after strafing Pakistani villages near Tull, Pakistan along with another Su-22 and with a pair of MiG-23MLDs flying top cover. Remaining 3 aircraft bugged out.

8 April 1988 Sqn. Ldr. Athar Bokhari
No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
(S. No. 85-725)

PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet Su-25
Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, Soviet Air Force (ejected) 1 PAF F-16 Vs. 4 Soviet Su-25s. Night interception over Parachinar, Pakistan. AIM-9L Sidewinder Kill. Remaining 3 Su-25s bugged out. Soviet Su-25 pilot, Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, (later Vice-President of Russia) was taken prisoner by Pakistani authorities.

12 September 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
(S. No. 85-728) PAF Minhas (Kamra) 2 Soviet MiG-23MLDs 2 PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet MiG-23s. Near Nawagai border area with Pakistan. Both Kills in a single sortie with AIM-9L and AIM-9P Sidewinders.

3 November 1988 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
(S. No. 84-717)
PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Afghan Air Force Su-22

Capt. Hashim, AAF (ejected) 2 PAF F-16s Vs. 6 Soviet/Afghan Su-22s. (3 on ground attack and 3 flying top cover)near Tull, Pakistan. Kill made with 2 AIM-9L Sidewinders. Afghan pilot, Capt. Hashim, was captured after bailing out.

20/21 November 1988 Muhammad Abbas Khattak
No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet An-26 Shot down while on a recce mission inside Pakistan. PAF pilot later Chief of the Air Staff, PAF, 1994-1997.

31 January 1989 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16B Fighting Falcon

PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet An-24 Night interception near Bannu, Pakistan while on a solo 'hot scramble'. An-24 on bombing run crashed while attempting to surrender. Thus credited as 'manoeuvre kill'.

Hi,

Whenever I bring in the M2K issue---it is always on tactical and strategic basis---.

Indeed the F16 was and is an extremely superior aircraft---no doubts about it---but tactically and strategically---it put us in an extremely inferior position---with the U S's finger on the kill switch button.

I will take the kill switch a step further---

I just recently leased a 2017 Toyota RAV4 XLE---it has active cruise / speed control---it has lane change warning and collision avoidance warning.

If my vehicle drifts into the next lane---my vehicle steering is automatically corrected and brings the car back into the lane---because the radar in the vehicle observes the disposition and corrects it.

I have an active cruise control as well---once I set the speed and distance for the car in front of me---the radar in my vehicle will automatically keep that distance---it will automatically apply the brakes or give more accelerator to keep the distance---. If the vehicle in front of me suddenly wants to stops---the radar in my vehicle will automatically hit the brakes and if need be---bring the vehicle to stop by itself---without me touching the brakes

If my suv can be hacked---my life is in the hands of the hacker---. So---I am ending this debate on NO KILL SWITCH right here.

Anyone still says otherwise---" get the fck out of Dodge ".

Now---when you are looking at the strategic and tactical outcome---cost is not the primary consideration---as a matter of fact---it is of least importance---why---because the rewards would be much higher in the long run---.

You can win a battle while keeping the " cost factor " in mind---but you cannot win a war keeping a cost factor in mind---.

You buy a major weapons systems for its tactical advantage and not for its cost saving measures---.

The F16 have been followed up by the Paf---purely for the sake of future jobs in the U S and elsewhere---parts supply commisions---.

Indian military cannot afford the SU30---but it has owned it for strategic and tactical reasons---the smartest move would have been to stay with the M2K's---but M2K did not give the Iaf the projection that it wanted tactically---strategically and egoistically---.

In the last major battle of Hannibal with the romans---Hannibal did not need his elephants---he did not realize or did not want to listen to those who said---' they are a liability now---because the romans have learnt how to tackle their presence '---and indeed the romans did and decimated those famous elephants of Hannibal---.

That is what the F16's are in their present form and numbers---.

Now if we had 200 of them and had an order coming of something equivalent to the BLK60---that would be a different story---.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

Whenever I bring in the M2K issue---it is always on tactical and strategic basis---.

Indeed the F16 was and is an extremely superior aircraft---no doubts about it---but tactically and strategically---it put us in an extremely inferior position---with the U S's finger on the kill switch button.

I will take the kill switch a step further---

I just recently leased a 2017 Toyota RAV4 XLE---it has active cruise / speed control---it has lane change warning and collision avoidance warning.

If my vehicle drifts into the next lane---my vehicle steering is automatically corrected and brings the car back into the lane---because the radar in the vehicle observes the disposition and corrects it.

I have an active cruise control as well---once I set the speed and distance for the car in front of me---the radar in my vehicle will automatically keep that distance---it will automatically apply the brakes or give more accelerator to keep the distance---. If the vehicle in front of me suddenly wants to stops---the radar in my vehicle will automatically hit the brakes and if need be---bring the vehicle to stop by itself---without me touching the brakes

If my suv can be hacked---my life is in the hands of the hacker---. So---I am ending this debate on NO KILL SWITCH right here.

Anyone still says otherwise---" get the fck out of Dodge ".

Now---when you are looking at the strategic and tactical outcome---cost is not the primary consideration---as a matter of fact---it is of least importance---why---because the rewards would be much higher in the long run---.

You can win a battle while keeping the " cost factor " in mind---but you cannot win a war keeping a cost factor in mind---.

You buy a major weapons systems for its tactical advantage and not for its cost saving measures---.

The F16 have been followed up by the Paf---purely for the sake of future jobs in the U S and elsewhere---parts supply commisions---.

Indian military cannot afford the SU30---but it has owned it for strategic and tactical reasons---the smartest move would have been to stay with the M2K's---but M2K did not give the Iaf the projection that it wanted tactically---strategically and egoistically---.

In the last major battle of Hannibal with the romans---Hannibal did not need his elephants---he did not realize or did not want to listen to those who said---' they are a liability now---because the romans have learnt how to tackle their presence '---and indeed the romans did and decimated those famous elephants of Hannibal---.

That is what the F16's are in their present form and numbers---.

Now if we had 200 of them and had an order coming of something equivalent to the BLK60---that would be a different story---.

Should have bought the CR-V if you wanted value for money or the Mazda Cx-5 for fun...

 

[ziaulislam]

Should have bought the CR-V if you wanted value for money or the Mazda Cx-5 for fun...

i think Rav4 is the best for value, just bought it

 

[CriticalThought]

Should have bought the CR-V if you wanted value for money or the Mazda Cx-5 for fun...

All pilots in the aggressor unit should get Mazda Cx-5

 

[Raider 21]

20/21 November 1988 Muhammad Abbas Khattak
No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16A Fighting Falcon
PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet An-26 Shot down while on a recce mission inside Pakistan. PAF pilot later Chief of the Air Staff, PAF, 1994-1997.

31 January 1989 Flt. Lt. Khalid Mahmood
No. 14 Squadron, PAF F-16B Fighting Falcon

PAF Minhas (Kamra) 1 Soviet An-24 Night interception near Bannu, Pakistan while on a solo 'hot scramble'. An-24 on bombing run crashed while attempting to surrender. Thus credited as 'manoeuvre kill'.

Shady on the Abbas Khattak part....he never flew operationally with No.14 squadron on F-16s. And by 1989, Khalid Mahmood was flying F-16s in Turkey on an exchange program.....

 

[fatman17]

View attachment 423984

Will post more details later.

Is TDS part of CCS or a separate unit

 

[MastanKhan]

Should have bought the CR-V if you wanted value for money or the Mazda Cx-5 for fun...

Hi,

So---when I was in sales---customers would ask me" what is the difference between a honda and a toyota buyer---.

My reply was " honda is for a younger buyer and toyota is for an older buyer "---why because of seat comfort and softer ride that older people like---.

And I am a living proof---I never thought that I would buy a Toyota---but this is my 4th toyota in the last 8 years.

2nd thing---I went looking for the CR-V---but it had very little leg room---and to top it off---Toyota had .096 apr ie .00001 money factor for the lease.

@Khafee

It is good to see you.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

So---when I was in sales---customers would ask me" what is the difference between a honda and a toyota buyer---.

My reply was " honda is a younger buyer and toyota is an older buyer "---why because of seat comfort and softer ride---.

And I am a living proof---I never thought that I would buy a Toyota---.

2nd thing---I went looking for the CR-V---but it had very little leg room---and to top it off---Toyota had .096 apr ie .00001 money factor for the lease.

@Khafee

It is good to see you.

There is nothing like a Honda engine, although I am not too fond of the turbo trend-

 

[Khafee]

@Khafee

It is good to see you.

You are like my cigars, can't seem to get rid of either of you.

 

[Tps43]

You are like my cigars, can't seem to get rid of either of you.

Hi nice to see u back used to enjoy ur posts alot , I hope u contribute more or as far as u can here.

 

[MastanKhan]

There is nothing like a Honda engine, although I am not too fond of the turbo trend-

Hi,

It's CVCC engines ran cleaner---then they came out with the VTEC---more HP cleaner running---better fuel---

Now---due to EPA regulations---due to emissions and gas mileage limitations---they are forced to chose the turbo charging route---.

40 + years ago Soichiro Honda proclaimed that Honda does not need a 6 cyl engine---we will stay with the 4 cyl---our 4 cyl will give enough HP---he has been proven right. As long as he lived---Honda had 4 cyl engines---after his death---they came out with a 6 cyl engine for Honda cars.

With direct injection---4 cyl turbo charged engines are giving upwards of 250 HP---the out put of a 6 cylinder.

Enjoy the read in this link

http://jalopnik.com/when-honda-gave-gm-one-of-historys-most-amazing-smackdo-1576732771

 

[CriticalThought]

LOLz am I the only one who sees the humor in current discussion? Seniors seem to be suggesting that instead of getting equipment that faithfully replicates real world enemy threats, the Aggressors will be getting Honda Sedans.

 

[Khafee]

LOLz am I the only one who sees the humor in current discussion? Seniors seem to be suggesting that instead of getting equipment that faithfully replicates real world enemy threats, the Aggressors will be getting Honda Sedans.

Well reality is- even if there is a consensus on this forum, in real life it would amount to big fat zero. So might as well go with flow, (when you are on the forum).