PAF to retire the F-7 Fleet

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Another JF-17 Block II squadron is being raised this year, so that would probably be the end of F-7P/FT-7P.

Regarding F-7PG/FT-7PG, it appears PAF is using these for compensating the lack of a LIFT, which explains the extra flying hours & high attrition. The PG squadrons continued losing strength but the previous leadership kept telling us they wouldn't buy a LIFT - that it was overrated and the manufacturers had added too much.



I have heard rumours about R-Darter being used with PG and ROSE Mirages, and MAA-1A Piranha by the latter, but never got a confirmation. Is this true?

@Knuckles



Assuming F-7PG's stay for 10 more years, which aircraft would the JF-17 Block III replace? I don't think it will be the Mirage as those have higher payload + range and over the years PAF has modified them for ground attack role (like IAF Jaguar's) with integration of Raad, Mectron MAR-1 ARM, etc.

Ya the original claim of theirs was that LIFT were all overrated and that they'd use F-7PGs for it.

But then at IDEAS they said they want a LIFT, but it had to be with an afterburning engine. But, ironically, the JF-17B can't be that LIFT (though it's a training jet with an afterburning engine).

It's almost as if there is a play here to get a F404 equipped jet like T-50, HurJet or T-X.

 

[Gryphon]

Ya the original claim of theirs was that LIFT were all overrated and that they'd use F-7PGs for it.

But then at IDEAS they said they want a LIFT, but it had to be with an afterburning engine. But, ironically, the JF-17B can't be that LIFT (though it's a training jet with an afterburning engine).

It's almost as if there is a play here to get a F404 equipped jet like T-50, HurJet or T-X.

And one ex-PAF officer is telling critics that they have a low attrition rate compared to the IAF, and that the criticism could affect PAF morale.

Can someone ask this ex-PAF officer how many PAF pilots have survived crashes in last 10 years or so (%age compared to IAF)?

 

[Raider 21]

And one ex-PAF officer is telling critics that they have a low attrition rate compared to the IAF, and that the criticism could affect PAF morale.

Can someone ask this ex-PAF officer how many PAF pilots have survived crashes in last 10 years or so (%age compared to IAF)?

You are welcome to ask him for us...

 

[randomradio]

Ya the original claim of theirs was that LIFT were all overrated and that they'd use F-7PGs for it.

But then at IDEAS they said they want a LIFT, but it had to be with an afterburning engine. But, ironically, the JF-17B can't be that LIFT (though it's a training jet with an afterburning engine).

It's almost as if there is a play here to get a F404 equipped jet like T-50, HurJet or T-X.

Why not the L-15B?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

BOI should determine cause of crash. PGs are good interceptors and with life remaining.

 

[Tps43]

Another JF-17 Block II squadron is being raised this year, so that would probably be the end of F-7P/FT-7P.

For 18 sqn? or a new sqn is being raised , What I think is paf going to replace 18 sqn inventory with a lift ac

Assuming F-7PG's stay for 10 more years, which aircraft would the JF-17 Block III replace? I don't think it will be the Mirage as those have higher payload + range and over the years PAF has modified them for ground attack role (like IAF Jaguar's) with integration of Raad, Mectron MAR-1 ARM, etc.

What I think is block 3 will replace all mirages except 27 ssqn zarrar and another Rose3 sqn

I have heard rumours about R-Darter being used with PG and ROSE Mirages, and MAA-1A Piranha by the latter, but never got a confirmation. Is this true?

I saw sidewinder on pg's but don't know about this

 

[YeBeWarned]

Bhai no money in the coffers. We are having difficulties paying off the interest on the loans we have. This is unlikely to improve in the next 3-5 yrs.

A

Just a thought Araz bhai

 

[Gryphon]

For 18 sqn? or a new sqn is being raised , What I think is paf going to replace 18 sqn inventory with a lift ac

It was reported (link) that PAF will raise its 6th operational JF-17 squadron this year, having ordered a total of 112 Block I/II.

Regarding No. 18 sqn, I am aware of its OCU role with F-7P/FT-7P. If equipped with JF-17s, the sqn can perform OCU role with the single-seater version (which may later be joined by JF-17B, currently being evaluated by PAF).

At Mianwali, a temporary sqn namely 'Shooter squadron' already exists for LIFT role; operates F-7PG/FT-7PG.

What I think is block 3 will replace all mirages except 27 ssqn zarrar and another Rose3 sqn

If Block III is planned to replace Mirages which haven't undergone the ROSE upgrade, I believe there will be considerable improvement in its air-to-ground capability compared to Block I/II (like a SAR mode capable AESA radar in addition to the AselPOD EO/IR targeting system, more payload & range, a SEAD weapon package, etc).
Which Mirage sqdrn's are Raad capable?

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

PG might be kept as reserve assets.

 

[Basel]

BOI should determine cause of crash. PGs are good interceptors and with life remaining.

Will it be good to give some upgrade to those PG for example data link, HMD/HMS + missile in class of ASRAAM (max range 50km) and capability to carry BVR with NCW capacity?

 

[fitpOsitive]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1088556631120662534

Why we have to loose lives to decisions? Right from this decision to Zerb e Azb, our Children and boys paid the price our delayed decision.

 

[Tps43]

If Block III is planned to replace Mirages which haven't undergone the ROSE upgrade, I believe there will be considerable improvement in its air-to-ground capability compared to Block I/II (like a SAR mode capable AESA radar in addition to the AselPOD EO/IR targeting system, more payload & range, a SEAD weapon package, etc).

as per my info indead we will see great leap

At Mianwali, a temporary sqn namely 'Shooter squadron' already exists for LIFT role; operates F-7PG/FT-7PG.

Shooter sqn had AC's from ex 19 sqn as those AC's were merged with 18 sqn If I am not wrong Shooter's are combo of both P and PG's

Which Mirage sqdrn's are Raad capable?

27th is confirmed and 25th , 7th as well
27th sqn will remain mirage user until&unless we get a new platform , hey are very capable machines

 

[ziaulislam]

Will it be good to give some upgrade to those PG for example data link, HMD/HMS + missile in class of ASRAAM (max range 50km) and capability to carry BVR with NCW capacity?

Last i check f7 have design life of 2000hrs or 15 yrs..so they should run out of live around 2017

Last PG were inducted around 2002

F16 have life of 8000hr after MLU

 

[CriticalThought]

Ya the original claim of theirs was that LIFT were all overrated and that they'd use F-7PGs for it.

But then at IDEAS they said they want a LIFT, but it had to be with an afterburning engine. But, ironically, the JF-17B can't be that LIFT (though it's a training jet with an afterburning engine).

It's almost as if there is a play here to get a F404 equipped jet like T-50, HurJet or T-X.

Sir, to understand the situation, think in terms of engines.

Super Mushshak -> Turbo Prop
K-8 -> Turbo Fan
??????????????????? <------- LOCTA
JF-17 B -> Turbo Fan + After burner with high operational cost

The question marks show a need for Low Operational Cost Turbofan with Afterburner (LOCTA - I made up this abbreviation). That's the role the F7-PGs are playing. ACM Sohail Aman felt the existing so called options for LOCTA were too gold-plated. In any case, since JF-17 has set the benchmark for low acquisition cost, any LOCTA will be required to fall between JF-17 and K-8 in acquisition cost in order to even justify it.

I think PAF should hunker down, and give PAC the task of designing its own LOCTA. I keep coming up with these wild projects for PAC and people keep laughing, but the fact of the matter is, they need to work on a real project with real results in order to actually grow an indigenous industry. Merely creating universities will change nothing. It is utter folly that the first indigenous aircraft by PAC will be a fifth gen aircraft. This defies logic and reality.

 

[airmarshal]

Is F-7P that old?