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PAF to retire the F-7 Fleet

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This is great PAF has one of the best pilots of mirages in the world.

Another option could be to ask china to produce more jf 17 thunders per year. They have the capability.

Or we could always purchase the J-10C .

These could be used to replace F 7s but these are most probably for spares or to replace mirages in existing squadrons.

I think one of the F 7 P squadrons will be replaced with JF-17s B 2s this year.
 
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Yes Sir is denying these rumours, he was kind enough to give me a detail reply on the issue.
Posting Sir Kaiser Tufail's reply with his kind permission.

''I have gone sick of answering irresponsible posts on FB regarding the high attrition rate of F-7P/PG, that is is murder, that the PAF is being run by incompetent people, and so on.
The airframe design of the F-7 may be old, and the airframe life may be less than Western fighters, but that does not mean that the PAF is pushing thr airframe life limits. When the life is finished, another life cycle is permitted after a complete overhaul. All air forces do that.

How has this issue of F-7P/PG being difficult aircraft to fly come up? These are the simplest aircraft to fly. Absolutely uncomplicated. And they are not old. I have already posted a number of times, that our F-16s are 35 years old. The F-7PG are only 16 years old. The USAF B-52 is 65 years old. The F-15s are 45 years old.
I have flown all tyoes of fighters and grant me this much that I can comment on their performance better than these so called social media experts.


32440468_10156100850515549_7500479230715625472_n.jpg

We have come down from 50 major accidents for every 10,000 hrs of flying in 1950s to less than ONE accident per 10,000 hrs. We have had two years with ZERO accidents. Fatalties are part of the game.
We don't even know if it was pilot error, but everyone is quick to blame the aircraft.
Do social media 'experts' know that pilots who fly the F-7 have the lowest experience on fighters. All newbies. So it is natural for them to experience more accidents than pilots on Mirages and F-16s who have at least 1,000 hrs experience.''
1000% agree with Sir Kaiser Tufail.

How can they retire all of them 70-80 aircrafts in a go? Probably PAF is negotiating with Americans and Chinese for an off the shelf purchase of 40 and 40 F-16s and J-10C respectively. Otherwise, 24 Thunders production rate will take atleast 3 years to replace the F-7s. And who knows how we will be able to replace a Mach 2.2 aircraft. Probably PAF is working on it from years and now they have decided to chose a perfect replacement for these highly agile and somewhat highly maneuverable jets.
 
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PG are not going any where they r here to stay. It is a brilliant fighter which gives a run for the money to any thing thing flying east or west of our border.
 
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How many of you remember news about old birds replacement , PAF have to replace about 200 old birds by 2020 ,,,,,, Please don't add current 100 JF-17 ,,,,,, These are extra 200...…..
With current production rate of JF-17 and 2 years for JF-17 block III production , we have no chance to do that unless we buy off the shelf ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
We like it or not ,,,,,, We have to buy a new bird to replace Mirages (If we stay with original plan that Jf-17 will replace A5s, F-6s and F-7s) ,,,,,,,,,,,, J-10 is the only option ……………….. Rest time will tell
 
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How many of you remember news about old birds replacement , PAF have to replace about 200 old birds by 2020 ,,,,,, Please don't add current 100 JF-17 ,,,,,, These are extra 200...…..
With current production rate of JF-17 and 2 years for JF-17 block III production , we have no chance to do that unless we buy off the shelf ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
We like it or not ,,,,,, We have to buy a new bird to replace Mirages (If we stay with original plan that Jf-17 will replace A5s, F-6s and F-7s) ,,,,,,,,,,,, J-10 is the only option ……………….. Rest time will tell
I agree with you.. I wonder what PAF is actually thinking and planning because its hard for me to believe that PAF will only depend on JF17 while IAF is inducting Rafale and opting for more platforms.. Its not easy for me to digest and it will be extreme dum on PAF part if they dont do anything..
 
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Not again.

Refurbished. second-hand. used. old.
I had enough of it...……… Why people and PAF don't realize no matter what they do Mirages have to go...… We may have 5 to 10 years window so why not buy new bird and start replacing them …….. J-10C(P) can do wonders and we can use 5 to 10 years time window to build the numbers (120+)….
China Air force have 100s of J-10 and J-10 is their main bird ,,,,, They will invest heavy in this bird to upgrade it (R&D),,,,, PAF will safe many billion$$$ for that..... People need to look at JF-17 block III , how hard it is for PAF to get the goodies(R&D) required for block III

I agree with you.. I wonder what PAF is actually thinking and planning because its hard for me to believe that PAF will only depend on JF17 while IAF is inducting Rafale and opting for more platforms.. Its not easy for me to digest and it will be extreme dum on PAF part if they dont do anything..
Only having JF-17 will be suicide……….. It will be losing war before it even start ……. JF-17 is Great Light Bird at max …….. We need single engine Medium Bird and then heavy (twin engine)….
 
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I had enough of it...……… Why people and PAF don't realize no matter what they do Mirages have to go...… We may have 5 to 10 years window so why not buy new bird and start replacing them …….. J-10C(P) can do wonders and we can use 5 to 10 years time window to build the numbers (120+)….
China Air force have 100s of J-10 and J-10 is their main bird ,,,,, They will invest heavy in this bird to upgrade it (R&D),,,,, PAF will safe many billion$$$ for that..... People need to look at JF-17 block III , how hard it is for PAF to get the goodies(R&D) required for block III


Only having JF-17 will be suicide……….. It will be losing war before it even start ……. JF-17 is Great Light Bird at max …….. We need single engine Medium Bird and then heavy (twin engine)….

IMO, J-10 brings nothing new, in terms of technology. F-16 already has some of technology features while JF-17 Block III will have most of it covered and F-16 also covers the medium weight fighter segment.
 
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F-7P/PG AND AIR CRASHES




A completely ill-informed campaign is going on in the social media regarding yesterday’s F-7PG crash, and so called ‘experts’ calling for grounding of these aircraft on grounds of being old, and having a poor design. This sort of a campaign based on rumours does nothing but harm the morale of PAF personnel, while also playing into enemy hands unwittingly.

First of all, everyone must know that a comment about the cause of an accident cannot be made when even a preliminary inquiry has not been completed. The causes could be pilot error, material failure, faulty maintenance, bird hit, etc. Therefore, it is wrongly being assumed that the aircraft was faulty in this latest accident.

As far as the high accident rate on the F-7P/PG, it has to be remembered that fighter pilots with very low experience start out on these aircraft, unlike pilots on Mirages, JF-17 and F-16 who have a lot of experience. It is as simple as that.

As for the design of the F-7P/PG, it is simple and straightforward and the aircraft is virtually viceless. It may be an old design, but continues to be a classic fighter for the limited roles it is employed in. I have flown both the F-7P and F-PG, and found them free of any snags. In fact I carried out flight trials on the F-7PG in 1997 and recommended its induction in the PAF. For its value, it has proven to be a very capable aircraft, and is, in fact, referred to as the poor man’s F-16. Of course, if Pakistan had enough money, we could have an all-F-16 or all Rafale fleet. The reality is, unfortunately different.

As for the age of the aircraft, it would be worthwhile to note the following figures: Since their initial induction in the PAF, the F-16s are now 35 years old, the F-7Ps are 30 years old, while the F-7PG are 16 years old. Compare it to the USAF: the B-52s are 65 years old, the F-15s and A-10s are 42 years old, and F-16s are 40 years old. In all air forces, aircraft are regularly inspected, parts replaced, and overhauls done. What is to be noted that the stipulated airframe and engine life is NEVER exceeded, and PAF pays special attention to this aspect. The PAF is, however, in the process of gradually phasing out the older aircraft and replacing them with JF-17 but it is a slow process and will take a few years.

As for the age of the aircraft, it would be worthwhile to note the following figures: Since their initial induction in the PAF, the F-16s are now 35 years old, the F-7Ps are 30 years old, while the F-7PG are 16 years old. Compare it to the USAF: the B-52s are 65 years old, the F-15s and A-10s are 42 years old, and F-16s are 40 years old. In all air forces, aircraft are regularly inspected, parts replaced, and overhauls done. What is to be noted that the stipulated airframe and engine life is NEVER exceeded, and PAF pays special attention to this aspect.


It also must be noted that PAF’s accident rate is well below that of the IAF. In the 1950s, the accident rate was horrendously high at 50 accidents per 10,000 hours, while now it is less than ONE accident per 10,000 hours. In fact the PAF has seen three years without ANY accident a few years ago.

The PAF Air Staff is fully cognizant about safety of its pilots, but it does not mean that after a few accidents, a particular aircraft type should be grounded. Few would know that President Iskander Mirza’s son died in an air crash while he was president, but the PAF aircraft were not grounded. Air Marshal Asghar Khan’s two younger brothers died in air crashes while he was the C-in-C, but the PAF aircraft were not grounded. Fighter flying is risky business, and the loss of life is particularly tragic. However, full trust must be reposed in the PAF’s leadership and all efforts must be made so as not to affect the morale after these air accidents. Let’s us not play into the hands of the enemy.

[DISCLAIMER: This is not a sponsored post, but reflects my personal views]

Kaiser Tufail
 
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IMO, J-10 brings nothing new, in terms of technology. F-16 already has some of technology features while JF-17 Block III will have most of it covered and F-16 also covers the medium weight fighter segment.
USA will not sell us F-16s ………….. And J-10 will bring many new things ,,,,,, one of them is medium bird ,,,, 2nd delta wing ……. list goes on ………… And I am sorry JF-17 is good no doubt but it is light F-16 at best...…
Again replacing all the birds in PAF with JF-17 is competing Suicide .
And sir J-10 will do what JF-17 did,,,,,,, Replacing PAF's old birds with better tech and next Gen …… and of course at affordable price.
 
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F-7P/PG AND AIR CRASHES



A completely ill-informed campaign is going on in the social media regarding yesterday’s F-7PG crash, and so called ‘experts’ calling for grounding of these aircraft on grounds of being old, and having a poor design.

Tech wise it lags at few places. HMD's are in use of F-7 pilots, since these are basic interceptors ?

USA will not sell us F-16s ………….. And J-10 will bring many new things ,,,,,, one of them is medium bird ,,,, 2nd delta wing ……. list goes on ………… And I am sorry JF-17 is good no doubt but it is light F-16 at best...…
Again replacing all the birds in PAF with JF-17 is competing Suicide .
J-10 brings a sanction free bird. If that counts anything for PAF.

1 light, 2 medium. If you have to invest money, Why not a heavy or stealthy,.
 
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F-7P/PG AND AIR CRASHES



A completely ill-informed campaign is going on in the social media regarding yesterday’s F-7PG crash, and so called ‘experts’ calling for grounding of these aircraft on grounds of being old, and having a poor design. This sort of a campaign based on rumours does nothing but harm the morale of PAF personnel, while also playing into enemy hands unwittingly.

First of all, everyone must know that a comment about the cause of an accident cannot be made when even a preliminary inquiry has not been completed. The causes could be pilot error, material failure, faulty maintenance, bird hit, etc. Therefore, it is wrongly being assumed that the aircraft was faulty in this latest accident.

As far as the high accident rate on the F-7P/PG, it has to be remembered that fighter pilots with very low experience start out on these aircraft, unlike pilots on Mirages, JF-17 and F-16 who have a lot of experience. It is as simple as that.

As for the design of the F-7P/PG, it is simple and straightforward and the aircraft is virtually viceless. It may be an old design, but continues to be a classic fighter for the limited roles it is employed in. I have flown both the F-7P and F-PG, and found them free of any snags. In fact I carried out flight trials on the F-7PG in 1997 and recommended its induction in the PAF. For its value, it has proven to be a very capable aircraft, and is, in fact, referred to as the poor man’s F-16. Of course, if Pakistan had enough money, we could have an all-F-16 or all Rafale fleet. The reality is, unfortunately different.

As for the age of the aircraft, it would be worthwhile to note the following figures: Since their initial induction in the PAF, the F-16s are now 35 years old, the F-7Ps are 30 years old, while the F-7PG are 16 years old. Compare it to the USAF: the B-52s are 65 years old, the F-15s and A-10s are 42 years old, and F-16s are 40 years old. In all air forces, aircraft are regularly inspected, parts replaced, and overhauls done. What is to be noted that the stipulated airframe and engine life is NEVER exceeded, and PAF pays special attention to this aspect. The PAF is, however, in the process of gradually phasing out the older aircraft and replacing them with JF-17 but it is a slow process and will take a few years.

As for the age of the aircraft, it would be worthwhile to note the following figures: Since their initial induction in the PAF, the F-16s are now 35 years old, the F-7Ps are 30 years old, while the F-7PG are 16 years old. Compare it to the USAF: the B-52s are 65 years old, the F-15s and A-10s are 42 years old, and F-16s are 40 years old. In all air forces, aircraft are regularly inspected, parts replaced, and overhauls done. What is to be noted that the stipulated airframe and engine life is NEVER exceeded, and PAF pays special attention to this aspect.


It also must be noted that PAF’s accident rate is well below that of the IAF. In the 1950s, the accident rate was horrendously high at 50 accidents per 10,000 hours, while now it is less than ONE accident per 10,000 hours. In fact the PAF has seen three years without ANY accident a few years ago.

The PAF Air Staff is fully cognizant about safety of its pilots, but it does not mean that after a few accidents, a particular aircraft type should be grounded. Few would know that President Iskander Mirza’s son died in an air crash while he was president, but the PAF aircraft were not grounded. Air Marshal Asghar Khan’s two younger brothers died in air crashes while he was the C-in-C, but the PAF aircraft were not grounded. Fighter flying is risky business, and the loss of life is particularly tragic. However, full trust must be reposed in the PAF’s leadership and all efforts must be made so as not to affect the morale after these air accidents. Let’s us not play into the hands of the enemy.

[DISCLAIMER: This is not a sponsored post, but reflects my personal views]

Kaiser Tufail

Wonderfully written. Always a voice of reason, Kaiser Tufail. I felt a pang in my heart when I first read the news that F-7 PGs were to be replaced. Their climb rate combined with top speed of Mach 2.0 is a very interesting capability in the hands of PAF. Would hate to see this capability go away.
 
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