PAF to retire the F-7 Fleet

[Raider 21]

we all were thinking Pakistan is trying to sell JF17 to Egypt but its other way around...

The Egyptian Air Force are overall happy with their latest MiG-29s,F-16 A/B/C/D, Mirage 2000s and Rafales. JF-17B is of greater interest to them.

 

[Signalian]

Is F-7P that old?

technologically, not age.

Will it be good to give some upgrade to those PG for example data link, HMD/HMS + missile in class of ASRAAM (max range 50km) and capability to carry BVR with NCW capacity?

What if buyers(ones who cant even afford JF-17) are sought for P/PG and money utilized to induct a new platform instead. Not very practical since PAF has spend a good amount of time, effort and money invested in P/PG but just thinking outside the box.

JF-17B is of greater interest to them.

Plz share an official statement. looking for one since long.

Sir , We have to arrange that money by any means possible ……

Sell old aircraft or more JF-17's and buy a new platform.

 

[CriticalThought]

I find it extremely concerning that given the development of the JF17 and its induction to the PAF for the past 12 years, that the PAF still lack confidence in it's ability to replace the Mirage III which was the main purpose of this machine despite inducting near 100 of these fighters we still have young pilots staking there lives on machinery which is in an air force museum for most countries. Do u mean to tell me that the F7Pg is a better interceptor then the JF17, and the mirage 3 is overall better then the JF17?

Yes, the F-7PG is a better interceptor than JF-17 Block 1/2 and no the Mirage 3 is NOT overall better than JF-17, but it is better in its specialist strike role.

 

[CriticalThought]

If the PG is a better interceptor then the JF17, the thunder should have never been inducted, the whole purpose of the thunder was to replace the mirages and F7s if the thunder is incapable of doing this then its a serious design flaw imho. It's like we inducted a fighter to.give us basic BVR platform nothing more. If you build a fighter jet and that jet lacks the capability of a fighter jet which flew over 50 years ago it.means it's a failure

It's the difference between specialist and generalist. F-7PG specializes in a certain role, trying to make JF-17 excel in that role would turn the Thunder into a PG. Now that would be foolish.

 

[mingle]

I find it extremely concerning that given the development of the JF17 and its induction to the PAF for the past 12 years, that the PAF still lack confidence in it's ability to replace the Mirage III which was the main purpose of this machine despite inducting near 100 of these fighters we still have young pilots staking there lives on machinery which is in an air force museum for most countries. Do u mean to tell me that the F7Pg is a better interceptor then the JF17, and the mirage 3 is overall better then the JF17?

It's more to do with economics not designe or ability.

 

[Khanate]

Is F-7P that old?

Kaiser Tufail sb has summed up the issue in a more polite manner. The plane itself is fine.

As far as the high accident rate on the F-7P/PG, it has to be remembered that fighter pilots with very low experience start out on these aircraft, unlike pilots on Mirages, JF-17 and F-16 who have a lot of experience. It is as simple as that.

Source​

 

[Beast]

Ya the original claim of theirs was that LIFT were all overrated and that they'd use F-7PGs for it.

But then at IDEAS they said they want a LIFT, but it had to be with an afterburning engine. But, ironically, the JF-17B can't be that LIFT (though it's a training jet with an afterburning engine).

It's almost as if there is a play here to get a F404 equipped jet like T-50, HurJet or T-X.

FTC-2000G will be a good LIFT.

 

[mingle]

3 Sqd of JF-17, 36 to 45 J10C with 15 Jordanian to 30 surplus F16 can replace all F7 family in yr or two.

Not a good plan. As some of those Mirages are second hand, bought from UAE Air Force in the late 90s. And the Mirage III/V are very old designs.

If it's true probably for spare parts purposes?

Quickest and fastest would be again off the shelf F16s and JF17 let's see where way it goes

 

[CriticalThought]

That doesn't make any sense. One would expect the JF17 to be a better interceptor because its primary role is interception. It's like saying the F5 is a better interceptor then the F16?
If it's not a better interceptor then a 1950s design that that makes it a failure

JF-17 is not a point interceptor.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sir, to understand the situation, think in terms of engines.

Super Mushshak -> Turbo Prop
K-8 -> Turbo Fan
??????????????????? <------- LOCTA
JF-17 B -> Turbo Fan + After burner with high operational cost

The question marks show a need for Low Operational Cost Turbofan with Afterburner (LOCTA - I made up this abbreviation). That's the role the F7-PGs are playing. ACM Sohail Aman felt the existing so called options for LOCTA were too gold-plated. In any case, since JF-17 has set the benchmark for low acquisition cost, any LOCTA will be required to fall between JF-17 and K-8 in acquisition cost in order to even justify it.

I think PAF should hunker down, and give PAC the task of designing its own LOCTA. I keep coming up with these wild projects for PAC and people keep laughing, but the fact of the matter is, they need to work on a real project with real results in order to actually grow an indigenous industry. Merely creating universities will change nothing. It is utter folly that the first indigenous aircraft by PAC will be a fifth gen aircraft. This defies logic and reality.

There was a Polish-Ukrainian LIFT program on a single AI-222. It's probably dead, but it'd be intriguing to pick up the work and continue it.

https://defence-ua.com/index.php/en...ping-grot-2-airplane-with-a-motor-sich-engine

 

[CriticalThought]

There was a Polish-Ukrainian LIFT program on a single AI-222. It's probably dead, but it'd be intriguing to pick up the work and continue it.

https://defence-ua.com/index.php/en...ping-grot-2-airplane-with-a-motor-sich-engine

I wouldn't mind that, but I really want PAC to acquire the capability for indigenous design, testing, and validation.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Wth bro,didnt you have a 'professional' title?

I have 2 accounts. One for ''Quwa" (professional title) and this one. Got permission of course.

 

[T-123456]

I have 2 accounts. One for ''Quwa" (professional title) and this one. Got permission of course.

 

[litman]

i dont think PAF is in position to retire all the F-7 P and PGs in an year or so. it will take some years for JFT to replace all the junk as the junk is in good number. most likely it is just a statement for public consumption(if its official)

 

[Basel]

Last i check f7 have design life of 2000hrs or 15 yrs..so they should run out of live around 2017

Last PG were inducted around 2002

F16 have life of 8000hr after MLU

PGs have more life then Ps as they are different aircraft.