PAF Single engined Doctrine Good or Bad.

[[--Leo--]]

Dam this question of double engine or single to have balance air force
i must say it single engine that is suitable for PAF and less costly the reason is if you have same performance of single engine and double engine so whats is problem both gave same result PAF go for dog fight with ero typhoon which is double engine result is PAF beat them 3-0 so i don,t get the point why is this topic is started?and for balance air force i think PAF is getting more and more balance time to time and every 1 knows at high altitude FC-20 is usefull mediam-high F-16 and JF-17 with 8 AWACs erieye which is westren and chines and 1 question rise of weight lifting JF-17 can carry cruise missile RA'AD thats offical news about f-16 11 hardware points it means some thing that can carry any thing and same as FC-20 thats all

 

[MastanKhan]

What advantage would twin engines bring, to a PAF in its current operational environment and requirements.?
let me ask you that..
There are already strike assets with Standoff weapons that will hit the targets needed to be hit the most.
most major enemy assets are ten minutes from the border.. east OR west.
Loiter time will be increased by AAR... incorporated.

Also, carrying more weapons , doesn't mean that there is a higher chance of surviving.
You may fire four out of ten of your missiles, but if the second missile from the guy carrying only four is going to get you, its a waste of resources.

If you need to hit a single target, why carry twenty CM's when two at most will do the job.. and current single engined craft can do that.

Hi,

They have the practical puropse as well----. They are also there for show and projection along with practicality---isn't that what the millitaries do----strut their weapons around to project their wares---.

It is more of a complete package scenario type of thing---bottomline is that you ought to have something that can go fight the opponent mano a mano and hold its ground under all scenarios of bvr / wvr.

You also have to take into account---as the time progresses---technology changes in leaps and bounds as well---that is another dilemma that any millitary is facing today---it is the race to get the best of the best and not to be left behind---case in point indian MRCA deal---

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

They have the practical puropse as well----. They are also there for show and projection along with practicality---isn't that what the millitaries do----strut their weapons around to project their wares---.

It is more of a complete package scenario type of thing---bottomline is that you ought to have something that can go fight the opponent mano a mano and hold its ground under all scenarios of bvr / wvr.

You also have to take into account---as the time progresses---technology changes in leaps and bounds as well---that is another dilemma that any millitary is facing today---it is the race to get the best of the best and not to be left behind---case in point indian MRCA deal---

In the partially honest quest to avoid being left behind in defense.. Pak establishment has gotten Pakistan left behind in every other field. But that is for another day.
There are however, alternative, not so famous or publicized solution being taken by the PAF to improve its capability.. to be able to take on tactics and systems.. and not "single aircraft" mano a mano.

 

[MastanKhan]

Dam this question of double engine or single to have balance air force
i must say it single engine that is suitable for PAF and less costly the reason is if you have same performance of single engine and double engine so whats is problem both gave same result PAF go for dog fight with ero typhoon which is double engine result is PAF beat them 3-0 so i don,t get the point why is this topic is started?and for balance air force i think PAF is getting more and more balance time to time and every 1 knows at high altitude FC-20 is usefull mediam-high F-16 and JF-17 with 8 AWACs erieye which is westren and chines and 1 question rise of weight lifting JF-17 can carry cruise missile RA'AD thats offical news about f-16 11 hardware points it means some thing that can carry any thing and same as FC-20 thats all

Hi,

Mr Leo----so as the paf beat the eurofighter in training excercise---so that mean the usefulness of that fighter is over---the europeans should dump them and bury them because pakistanis trumped them---.

Should the U S had dumped the F15's which got snagged during the excercises in the 70/80's by the mirages---!!!

 

[Tshering22]

There's nothing wrong with single engine doctrine. As Pakistan claims, it is a defensive force which doesn't need to cover vast territory and then enter deep into enemy territory. So 1 engine jets are fine enough. The reason why we use twin engines more is because of distance within the country as well as in case the wars get too nasty.

Every country needs to see what is best for it rather than going for what others are going. Think about it; even J-10 is single-engined. So if your big brothers Chinese are going single engine, then what's wrong with your doctrine? Nothing.

 

[[--Leo--]]

Hi,

Mr Leo----so as the paf beat the eurofighter in training excercise---so that mean the usefulness of that fighter is over---the europeans should dump them and bury them because pakistanis trumped them---.

Should the U S had dumped the F15's which got snagged during the excercises in the 70/80's by the mirages---!!!

well my point is wether are singal engine or double same result in dog fight which is the main use of engine at that time. point was use the engine where it is usefull if you go afterburn for land attck mission or bvr might be not usefull as in dog fight so you better see it and observse it with open eyes

 

[Safriz]

They tried it..they didnt like it...for whatever reason

 

[Major Sam]

is any body knows status about J11b when we are getting these birdz?

 

[Storm Force]

FIRST OF ALL THANK YOU for everyone taking part both good points and criticisms.

I for one believe that the PAF have DUPLICATED its fighters and purchased 3 different systems that offer the same package.

Relative cheap to buy and operate
light to meduim loads
short to meduim ranges
Air combat geared both wvr & bvr

Which is fine it shows PAF has no real desire to take its air power beyond 300km max prehaps only 200km from the LOC or the coastline.

Its a defensive force (santro used sweden as a example they too are geared defensive)

In my opinion this limits your overall OPERATIONAL freedom for example

You cant go out to sea 800km to meet a indian blockade using both sea power and air power combined
You cant threaten some of india,s big hitech cities with strikes like Mumbai, chennai, banglaore hydrobhad.
You cant touch indian naval bases on any coastline

With single engines One bird hit or your engine fails on your mission "and the plane goes down"

10 su30mki can do the job of 30 single engined fighters be it F16 THUNDER OR MIRAGE2000. The range pay load electronic warefare capability combined is frightening.. 120 BVR missles on 10 fighters. 2 pilots each to share workload.

If and increasingly it looks likely a combo of twin engined mmrca & su30mki means IAF will be a very OFFENSIVE air power. They will go deep into pakistan looking to take out as much of the industrial & military testicles of the PAK military very early in any major conflict.

OR A strike pack of 4 mmrca or mki can go 1000km to sea to chase a Pak navy frigate if they have too

IF THEY CHOOSE TOO they can sit back and go ultra defensive

" The point is the FLEXIBILITY of operations is MASSIVE" with bigger more potent machines

PS

300 F16 & FC20 & thunder is a very good air force BUT just imagine 50 mmrca/j11 along side them

BUT AT LEAST THEY HAVE THE OPTIONS

 

[joekrish]

I'm sorry can you please tell me which part of the posts replied by joekrish is not considered to be trolling? Why the heck people judge me by my amount of posts. Can't you all see that I'm a member since 07. Yes I have not posted enough but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm a new be. Anyhow lets get back to the topic please!

Really what do you think you are doing?

Regards

 

[epinephrine]

FIRST OF ALL THANK YOU for everyone taking part both good points and criticisms.

I for one believe that the PAF have DUPLICATED its fighters and purchased 3 different systems that offer the same package.

Relative cheap to buy and operate
light to meduim loads
short to meduim ranges
Air combat geared both wvr & bvr

Which is fine it shows PAF has no real desire to take its air power beyond 300km max prehaps only 200km from the LOC or the coastline.

Its a defensive force (santro used sweden as a example they too are geared defensive)

In my opinion this limits your overall OPERATIONAL freedom for example

You cant go out to sea 800km to meet a indian blockade using both sea power and air power combined
You cant threaten some of india,s big hitech cities with strikes like Mumbai, chennai, banglaore hydrobhad.
You cant touch indian naval bases on any coastline

With single engines One bird hit or your engine fails on your mission "and the plane goes down"

10 su30mki can do the job of 30 single engined fighters be it F16 THUNDER OR MIRAGE2000. The range pay load electronic warefare capability combined is frightening.. 120 BVR missles on 10 fighters. 2 pilots each to share workload.

If and increasingly it looks likely a combo of twin engined mmrca & su30mki means IAF will be a very OFFENSIVE air power. They will go deep into pakistan looking to take out as much of the industrial & military testicles of the PAK military very early in any major conflict.

OR A strike pack of 4 mmrca or mki can go 1000km to sea to chase a Pak navy frigate if they have too

IF THEY CHOOSE TOO they can sit back and go ultra defensive

" The point is the FLEXIBILITY of operations is MASSIVE" with bigger more potent machines

PS

300 F16 & FC20 & thunder is a very good air force BUT just imagine 50 mmrca/j11 along side them

BUT AT LEAST THEY HAVE THE OPTIONS

nice post but dont be so relaxed.we can hit india anywhere we like to not by air crafts but with missiles.

 

[Zarvan]

I don't know about JF-17 level 2 can somebody tell me is it better than those F-16 which we got in 80s if yes than 300 above JF-17 and 250 J-10 B with 60 Upgraded F-16 and than Stealth plane is future will make Pakistan Air force among top ten and if our economy gets better a lot we can increase our fighter planes to around 1000

 

[drunken-monke]

Dear Zarvan,

1. Jf-17 level 2 or (mark 2) would be deffinately better than thoes block A f16 your AF received way back early 80s. Why?? Well I read somewhere from MuridK sir that it performed well in DACT exercises against f16. Also the radar is better with upcoming chinese AESA. Also weapon package would be quite good having bvr installed on it. Even with conformal fuel tanks I am not sure whether f16 can match the range of JF 17. And most importantly the tunder is without any strings attached to it.
But f16 has better climb rate and T/W ratio compared to that of JF and top speed is also better than jf.

2. About 300 jf- Well they would form very good numbers and enough fire power.

3. About 250 J10B- Aircraft is good and potent, but question is whether your economy permits that?? Also PLAF will have her own requirement. Whether they gonna fullfill their own first or yours??

4. About stealth Plane-- J20 I assume. Still a way long to be cleared for IOC. 5-7 years from now atleast for first J20 aircraft in PAF... Also $$$$$.. Whether Pakistan's economy would get backon track and really boom to get these toys in their inventry??

Airforce is not like Vegetable market. Need lot of money and with limited fund, PAF would like to make most of it..

regards..

 

[Zarvan]

Plan to take numbers of J-10 B to 150 is already there and if our economy gets better well than we can go for 250 because we will get them with TOT and also yes it depends on our economy but still slowly we can go for it

 

[drunken-monke]

Plan to take numbers of J-10 B to 150 is already there and if our economy gets better well than we can go for 250 because we will get them with TOT and also yes it depends on our economy but still slowly we can go for it

The bold part is the matter of concern... Slowly but how much slow??