Twin Engined J-10? What Happened to it

[Scorpiooo]

Perhaps people in the third world see things from far away and develop very strange and sometimes funny opinions. Fifth generation is not a cure all. No country in the world will go forward and have only fifth generation aircraft inducted. Not even the US.

Now, I can't explain this because I'm tired of the half-assed people who can't do their reading before making these sweeping statements and acting like others don't know and are "wrong". So little knowledge, so much bravado and ego...

This is not even relevant to the topic I started here. I don't know if this J-10 with twin engines - what it will be. What generation it will be. Or even if it even exists at all. Or if even existed at all. I asked for information and see just half-assed reply be people who don't do their research or reading but still have garbage opinions to share.

First of all No body is criticizing or challenging your information ur knowledge here, so no need to take its personal.
Secondly if you want others to observe and understand for information or you sharing. You need to develop ability to observe others information or sharing as wel, offcouse you have all the right to oppose it, ignore it or logical in criticizing it (if you want).

But using of abusive language or non decent language can't suppress other form providing there own information/sharing as this is public plateform, nor this language cant make you more informative or knowledgeable.

In this world full of public information and knowledge we cant dough anyone ability or superiority in knowledge.

Final : Those who give respect to other got respect in reverse only.

 

[ziaulislam]

J-20 HASN'T ANY CHANCE FOR PAF, CHINA BANNED J-20 EXPORT, JUST LIKE USA F-22, IF WE ARE LUCKY THAN WE WILL GET J-16 AT BEST


DEAD PROJECT SINCE LONG TIME

i doubt it was a real project to begin with

 

[KaiserX]

Pakistan will most likely go for both J-31 (very similar design/engine with the JF-17) for its lower end 5th generation needs...while Project Azm will be for higher end long range deep strike/air superiority missions.

Financing will not be an issue... With my discussion with PAF folks, funds were set aside in musharafs era for 42 j-10s (2 billion USD), but PAF decided to stick with an upgraded JF-17 block 3 and save these funds for a better future fighter (J-20/J-31). Don't forget we coughed up 6 billion USD for Chinese subs and the government is giving the Air Force top priority.

The same reason there is a J-31. Additionally, for aircraft carrier operations. I haven't been active on the Chinese forums in a while, so I'm looking to find the latest info here.

Perhaps I can get back on SDF and they would be the right forum to ask this question - I still have an account, wonder if I still remember the password of it.

Back then, the idea was that the J-31 had an equivalent competing program with a Chengdu product. Since Chengdu is known for delta canards, and because of all the rumours on Chinese forums back then, it was assumed that this was a twin engined delta canard.

PLAAF will go for both the J-20/J-31 for its needs making up a hi-lo platform combo similar to the F-22/F-35. There was discussion for a 3rd middle option in between these 2 for the PLAAF as well which could also be used for carrier options. Don't know where that has gone tho.

 

[Armchair]

Pakistan will most likely go for both J-31 (very similar design/engine with the JF-17) for its lower end 5th generation needs...while Project Azm will be for higher end long range deep strike/air superiority missions.

Financing will not be an issue... With my discussion with PAF folks, funds were set aside in musharafs era for 42 j-10s (2 billion USD), but PAF decided to stick with an upgraded JF-17 block 3 and save these funds for a better future fighter (J-20/J-31). Don't forget we coughed up 6 billion USD for Chinese subs and the government is giving the Air Force top priority.



PLAAF will go for both the J-20/J-31 for its needs making up a hi-lo platform combo similar to the F-22/F-35. There was discussion for a 3rd middle option in between these 2 for the PLAAF as well which could also be used for carrier options. Don't know where that has gone tho.

Hi, I think there are a few possibilities:

1. A competing design from Chengdu against the J-31
2. A competing design from Chengdu for an aircraft carrier aircraft.

The US airforce nor the USN ever intend to fly an all 5th gen jet, so this competing design could be (have been) a stealth or a non-stealth, either or both.

 

[MastanKhan]

Perhaps people in the third world see things from far away and develop very strange and sometimes funny opinions. Fifth generation is not a cure all. No country in the world will go forward and have only fifth generation aircraft inducted. Not even the US.

Now, I can't explain this because I'm tired of the half-assed people who can't do their reading before making these sweeping statements and acting like others don't know and are "wrong". So little knowledge, so much bravado and ego...

This is not even relevant to the topic I started here. I don't know if this J-10 with twin engines - what it will be. What generation it will be. Or even if it even exists at all. Or if even existed at all. I asked for information and see just half-assed reply be people who don't do their research or reading but still have garbage opinions to share.

Hi,

I very much doubt that the Paf would go for a 5th gen aircraft with Canards---.

I would not either---unless it is already built---like the J20---.

The J31 is there---. It is already flight tested---that is the best and the fastest approach to get a 5th gen aircrfaft---.

 

[KaiserX]

Hi,

I very much doubt that the Paf would go for a 5th gen aircraft with Canards---.

I would not either---unless it is already built---like the J20---.

The J31 is there---. It is already flight tested---that is the best and the fastest approach to get a 5th gen aircrfaft---.

J-31/J-20 line is different from Pakistans own domestic Project Azm. I agree that PAF will def go for J-31, don't forget when the whole J-10/F-10 saga was going around PAF countered that they would purchase the "F-31"...This is many years before the J-31/FC-31 made a test flight in musharafs era. PAF has def been eyeing the J-31 for a while now.

The leaked design of Project Azm shows a delta-canard configuration, along with side DSI's. PAF has worked with the delta designs for decades in the form of the mirage 3/5. Tho the design has not been finalized, I expect it to be very similar to the final design once finishing touches are made because a specific statement was put out that the conceptual design phase has been finalized a few years back.

A few of the reasons PAF may be more interested in a delta-canard design:

1. A further development of the JF-17 block 3 to a stealthy twin engine design would pretty much already be a J-31. It would be a waste of time/resources for Pakistan since they could procure J-31 right off the line, and simply reconfigure existing JF-17 assembly lines to produce the J-31 in the future. Design is very similar with similar radars, DSI intakes, and engines.

2. It would be more challenging for Pakistan to spend its time and resources on a delta-canard design since it has prior experience with the mirage 3/5. Having different designed jets allows the user to take aerodynamic benefits that both designs give to make it more challenging for enemy pilots. IAF pilots would have to practice against 2 different designs each of which has its own pros further confusing the enemy.

3. Since J-31 would already be available to the PAF. Pakistan could further test the stealth envelope to come up with a more stealthy aircraft than the J-31.

Just some thoughts

 

[MastanKhan]

J-31/J-20 line is different from Pakistans own domestic Project Azm. I agree that PAF will def go for J-31, don't forget when the whole J-10/F-10 saga was going around PAF countered that they would purchase the "F-31"...This is many years before the J-31/FC-31 made a test flight in musharafs era. PAF has def been eyeing the J-31 for a while now.

The leaked design of Project Azm shows a delta-canard configuration, along with side DSI's. PAF has worked with the delta designs for decades in the form of the mirage 3/5. Tho the design has not been finalized, I expect it to be very similar to the final design once finishing touches are made because a specific statement was put out that the conceptual design phase has been finalized a few years back.

Hi,

Thank you for your post---.

Canards on a 5th gen aircraft---defeat the purpose of building a true stealth aircraft---but have been installed due to a design compromise.

 

[ARMalik]

Hi,

Thank you for your post---.

Canards on a 5th gen aircraft---defeat the purpose of building a true stealth aircraft---but have been installed due to a design compromise.

J-20 also has front canards. I wonder if the design compromise was due to the engine power?

 

[Armchair]

About the Azm, although its a bit off topic here, I was actually rethinking everything last night based on @TheTallGuy 's assertion that Azm is a replica of the JF-17. This actually makes perfect sense - its the least risky development proposal.

Basically, a larger, stealthier JF-17. Something like the Hornet and the Super Hornet. An engine is readily available for this - the WS-10 / WS-15. This is incidentally what @MastanKhan originally wanted - a larger JF-17. Make it somewhat stealthy, put a laser, and viola, Azm is born!

This would allow a 2025 launch for the product quite easily, which allows for a block 4 and block 5 before bringing the Azm into service. What's more - it can easily use the subsystems bin of the J-10C / E as well as the J-31 / 35.

It would perhaps also be a good export product as a relatively low cost fighter for the 2020s/30s. Laser replacing the gun, and perhaps semi-recessed hardpoints on the body.

J-20 also has front canards. I wonder if the design compromise was due to the engine power?

I am not sure to what extent the J-20 is bad from a stealth point of view. The issue may or may not be relatively minor. One would need to do a radar test of the airframe to understand exactly. Eyeballing stealth is a highly speculative science.

 

[Deino]

i doubt it was a real project to begin with

Perhaps people in the third world see things from far away and develop very strange and sometimes funny opinions. Fifth generation is not a cure all. No country in the world will go forward and have only fifth generation aircraft inducted. Not even the US.

Now, I can't explain this because I'm tired of the half-assed people who can't do their reading before making these sweeping statements and acting like others don't know and are "wrong". So little knowledge, so much bravado and ego...

This is not even relevant to the topic I started here. I don't know if this J-10 with twin engines - what it will be. What generation it will be. Or even if it even exists at all. Or if even existed at all. I asked for information and see just half-assed reply be people who don't do their research or reading but still have garbage opinions to share.

I really don't know what's your point and why again you get rude and angry??

Is it since you simply don't like your replies and arguments, since you run- out of own ones to support theaory similar to those be recently discussed in the China thread? I don't know, but from my understanding I agree with him:

i doubt it was a real project to begin with

From all i know this project - if it ever was a real one - came up as the Super-10 for a PLAN carrier-borne fighter and I indeed remember some impressive fan-made artworks of it. BUT IMO it was eventually at best a paper-project from CAC as an alternative for the SAC J-15 program which in the end won the PLAN's RfP for the carrier-borne type.

As such there was barely any chance this project would result in any hardware several years ago and even less - in fact the chance is non-existent now - that such a type could be an option for Pakistan. If anyone would want a twin-engined medium-weight class fighter developed from China and powered by two RD-33/-93 type engines it will definitely be the FC-31 and never ever this one.

So again, why getting rude and calling others "half-assed people who can't do their reading before making these sweeping statements and acting like others don't know and are "wrong". So little knowledge, so much bravado and ego"??? IMO the only one who demonstrates "so much bravado and ego" is You since once again you don't argue, you only bash down arguments you don't like in the same way you hype up a faked carrier-module image as proof that China is building more type 003/004 carriers or you overrate a crude fan-made sketch as proof that the J-35 uses TVC engines.

Get mature and grow up.

 

[Armchair]

@Deino if you have something intelligent to add - like no this project above did not exist - that is fair. The rest of your personal tirade is trolling. If you have an issue on another thread take it up there, don't ruin this thread for your personal glory.

 

[Deino]

@Deino if you have something intelligent to add - like no this project above did not exist - that is fair. The rest of your personal tirade is trolling. If you have an issue on another thread take it up there, don't ruin this thread for your personal glory.

Oh what a pathetic post!

You are calling others as "half-assed people" and insult members who don't follow your twisted logic and now accuse me of trolling.

 

[Armchair]

Oh what a pathetic post!

You are calling others as "half-assed people" and insult members who don't follow your twisted logic and now accuse me of trolling.

I think you are very angry and upset and now resorting to emojis and name calling. Which started from a different thread and then you decided to migrate here to troll. You're also off topic. If you don't like the topic, go elsewhere.
I'm going to stop replying and hope you can take your business elsewhere.

PS: I think this is the kind of behavior that caused your mod powers outside the international threads to be revoked. You seem unable to learn the lesson.

 

[Nasr]

The best option for Pakistan Air Force is to focus on Project Azm.

 

[Armchair]

The best option for Pakistan Air Force is to focus on Project Azm.

I actually agree with this. I'm still curious what Chengdu was up to and if it was just a rumour back then or there was something to it. Was there a competing design against the J-31 for instance?