PAF Should Go For The F 35---A Coupe De Grace

[AtiF Malang]

F35 is the best answer to Pak Fa and i am sure Uncle sam will agree to sell as long as we can guarantee a chinese free air base .
Remember two countries Israel and Pakistan ,made Falcon very famous all over the world. America will for sure wants Pakistan and Israel to get Lightening 2 and roast Pak Fa , Su series and Rafael etc .

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@MastanKhan

Sir,
F-35 would be an ideal replacement for the F-16's or individually similar to what the Israeli's are doing but the issue is if USA would prioritize the deliveries like it intends for IDF. Moreover in one of the article regarding F-35 it was coated that the US is going to customize the amount of stealth features according to the requirements it deems fit for the country ordering the F-35's.

The other issue is if the US are going to deliver these aircraft within the same time frame that the SU-35 can be delivered.
Even if this is accepted what are the other conditions that US is going to agree regarding the use and integration of Pakistani weapons. Transfer of technology would also be a very big issue as the US would some how think that Pakistan would give this technology to the Chinese though this is not going to happen in reality.

The Russian on the other hand would have some what less limitations. On the other hand the Russians have seen that Pakistan is capable of providing them the technology of west in aircraft standards and quality.

Pakistan is also looking towards the Chinese Stealth Aircraft and also the Turkish aircraft. The reason they are still undecided is both aircraft are not fully developed and are still in the design phases. So it can be argued the F-35 would not come in because the Turkish aircraft would give PAF the western option that PAF is considering and would be 100% sanction proof. An Ideal aircraft to replace the F-16 by 2025-30, where as the Chinese J-31 could replace the other aircraft like the F-7PG which are not supposed to be replaced by the JF-17.

There was also a thread some time back regarding a stealth variant of JF-17 but this seems to only be a fanboy news. If this is correct then Pakistan might end up with the JF-17 stealth and the Turkish Fighter X as air-superiority fighter aircraft.

 

[MastanKhan]

Please enlighten us......

Not yet.

 

[Lightning Soul]

India purchasing F-35 can be a best thing in Pakistan's favour.
Heavy Burden on India:
- It would be very expensive to operate along with SU-30 MKI , Rafales (possibly in future)
- They would definitely then have to do reduction or some /trade off with PAK-FA deal with Russia
- Maintenance of both F-35 and PAK-FA would be a logistic nightmare.
- Overall operational cost would be very expensive (Weapons, Maintenance, Training)
Why Favour for Pakistan?:
- F-35 still not on par with F-22 (The best 5th Gen Fighter Operational)
- Cheaper Alternatives to F-35 technology would be available from China
- Can field Chinese stealth fighters in Large numbers against the F-35 with better customization
- Possibility of TOT or use of technology in future Stealth program or JV of Pakistan with China
- Alternative to F-35 lets assume J-31 can be customized to different configurations based on different specialized roles ( like F-18 Growlers) in the long run which would be more cost effective (as commonality of sub systems) when 4th Gen fighters would be needed to retire.

 

[That Guy]

Well may be i am misinterpreting the Asian pivot thing, i thought it was related to east Asia and pacific region rather than south Asia.

Secondly yes i do agree that we are seeing much better relations with US lately but would that stop Pakistan from offering Gawadar as a naval base to the Chinese, i believe no and with such kind of relations with China how can US trust Pakistan with its most sensitive stealth technology.

As for the room for Chinese expansion in Pakistan, well it depends more upon how quickly Chinese technology catch up with that of the US. If Chinese can offer Pakistan pretty much the same sophisticated weaponry that US has on offer then there is no chance that Pakistan will ever go for American weapons in the future. If there is some sanity left in our establishment then i believe they will never forget the 90's and presler.

My point is US can not offer us its top-notch technologies because of our closeness with China (we can't afford it either). And it can never curtail China's influence over Pakistan, in the coming decade or so we will get even closer with China.

US is moving its Atlantic fleet to Pacific, not Indian Ocean so i don't see us becoming a part of Asian pivot. But we can become part of their Anti-Isis alliance or anti-piracy fight e.t.c. That's what i believe but I might be wrong, please do correct me if that's the case.

The US's renewed interest in Asia includes South and central Asia, as they're China's immediate neighbors as well, and are more willing to cooperate with China. The US strategy to contain China's geopolitical growth depends heavily on cooperation from these nations. India and most East Asian nations are already on board, but Pakistan and central Asian nations are reluctant to go against, what they perceive to be, a potential super power ally. For central Asia, it is even more important that they're close to China, as China indirectly serves as a counter balance to Russian influence (and recent aggression). If China's plans of a new silk road are to succeed, Central Asia must remain (at the very least) independent.

Chinese expansion in Pakistan is not primarily based on defense, that is just a symptom. China's interests are economical in nature, and defense deals between Pakistan and China reflect that reality. A simple example is that China signed a deal with the PN for 6 naval ships, which is just to help PN guard Gwadar and conduct anti-piracy operations in the lanes that China will use, once CPEC is operational. Another example is China's supplying Pakistan with (what nations would consider) sensitive military technology, such as drone, so that PA can bring the insurgencies in Baluchistan and FATA to an end (Baluchistan insurgency is already on it's last feet).

 

[AtiF Malang]

India purchasing F-35 can be a best thing in Pakistan's favour.
Heavy Burden on India:
- It would be very expensive to operate along with SU-30 MKI , Rafales (possibly in future)
- They would definitely then have to do reduction or some /trade off with PAK-FA deal with Russia
- Maintenance of both F-35 and PAK-FA would be a logistic nightmare.
- Overall operational cost would be very expensive (Weapons, Maintenance, Training)
Why Favour for Pakistan?:
- F-35 still not on par with F-22 (The best 5th Gen Fighter Operational)
- Cheaper Alternatives to F-35 technology would be available from China
- Can field Chinese stealth fighters in Large numbers against the F-35 with better customization
- Possibility of TOT or use of technology in future Stealth program or JV of Pakistan with China
- Alternative to F-35 lets assume J-31 can be customized to different configurations based on different specialized roles ( like F-18 Growlers) in the long run which would be more cost effective (as commonality of sub systems) when 4th Gen fighters would be needed to retire.

Indians Baniya are smart enough. They will never go for F35. They will purchase Pak Fa and the F35 only advantage , sensors and other electronics, over Pak Fa will be available to it via Israel .
Body Moruti ki interior GMC ka .
Why uncle sam can't stop israel from copying and selling its tech .

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Strange. It's just like having F16s in 80s which we eventually did yet topic starter heavily criticised its procurement till date.

 

[melb4aust]

Not yet.

Then perhaps your very intention was to start this thread to fuel up the insanity of insane(s) further and at another level. That can be observed from post # 1 to the very last indeed.

 

[waz]

I'd prefer the F-35 over the SU-35, but with the closeness to China this may not be possible. However I read an article from an American military analyst who said that the Russian offer could prompt the US to offer far more advanced weapons i.e. to keep Pakistan within its sphere.

 

[flameboard]

If money were not an issue. F-15 Stealth would be a really good option. Nothing is completely stealthy, but F-15 is great at areal dominance, fast and built upon a proven machine. It does eat a lot of fuel from what I've heard but I bet so does the F-35.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I'd prefer the F-35 over the SU-35, but with the closeness to China this may not be possible. However I read an article from an American military analyst who said that the Russian offer could prompt the US to offer far more advanced weapons i.e. to keep Pakistan within its sphere.

well they did that with the vipers didn't they. you wanted gunships they said no, china and russia said yes . the US got left out and came in hard and said ok now you have vipers and more. nice tactic.

but don't you think it would be economically better for the US to sell to india as they would more likely give a larger order than Pakistan . and also dont you think strings will affect such a deal as we are talking replacing the f16 here . this is a huge deal. and a huge deal with strings is a bad deal.

 

[waz]

well they did that with the vipers didn't they. you wanted gunships they said no, china and russia said yes . the US got left out and came in hard and said ok now you have vipers and more. nice tactic.

but don't you think it would be economically better for the US to sell to india as they would more likely give a larger order than Pakistan . and also dont you think strings will affect such a deal as we are talking replacing the f16 here . this is a huge deal. and a huge deal with strings is a bad deal.

The US thinks strategically first and foremost, a lost order with India isn't much of a big deal to them. There will be strings i.e. use of the aircraft, Chinese involvement etc.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

F35 is the best answer to Pak Fa and i am sure Uncle sam will agree to sell as long as we can guarantee a chinese free air base .

Not only, but it will give us qualitative edge . Even 1 or 2 squardons will give them sleepless night , there is no other better machine than F35 after f22. While U.S.A have decades old experience of Stealth, they just retired f117s in 2008 when other countries were looking on drawing board for prototype, let leave operational clearance for a moment.
Lolzzzzzzzxxzzzzz

 

[AtiF Malang]

Gentlemen let me assure you all India will never buy F35 .
America will try to get some early good kill score for F35 so that countries start buying it not like hot cake but like F16 which is sold quicker than hot cake .
India in future as well buy just transporter and other military hardware but will never buy Fighter jets submarines tanks etc from USA. They enjoyed when USA sanctioned Pakistan and they don't want Pakistan to enjoy the same situation with india .
They will follow the path body engine russia ki electronics israel ki

 

[S.Bukhari]

Since we do not have carriers , we further do not have need for a F-35 , we are fine Sukhoi for navy Patrol missions in Pakistani Sea operations of our coast line supporting our Ships.
Sukhoi's flying /speed and radar capacity is ideal for patrolling Karachi / Gawadar ports
or responding to any emergency to support our frigate fleet launched from either Gwadar base or Karachi base. Fast and quick Sukhoi would reach emergency point fast

F-35 just does not fits into Pakistani Airforce agenda

Even if we got the F-35 given to us free we won't be able to keep it flying for more then 2-3 years before requiring expensive upgrade or repairs and it carries few missiles in its internal bays in a Dog fight it would be out dueled

So
Sukhoi-35 (50 Units) -> Mirage retirement (70 unit retired)
GripenNG (50 Units) -> F-7PG (70 Units retired)

The gripens are great option to replace the F-7PG fleet as we would get new radar / avionics in package and would work well with out Saab Erie Eye

Why gripes when we already having JF 17s ?