PAF Should Go For The F 35---A Coupe De Grace

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

After much thought and deliberation---I have come to the conclusion that PAF should change gears in mid stream and go for a 2 Sqdrn strength of the F 35 initially.

They should drop the idea for the SU35 or the J11D and go for the JH7B with the upgraded engine and aesa radar.

But the key over here is the F35----. With the procurement of this aircraft---it can bring some balance to the fire fight and have some strength at its disposal to maintain and manage an aggressive and a defensive power stance---.

This is an unconventional approach to the problem at hand---. Go for the 5th gen aircraft first and then go back to the 4--- 4.5 gen aircraft---.

It will also give it enough time to develop the JF 17 blk 3 as well.

There are a couple of things that have changed-----. @Zarvan brought my attention to a thread started by Usama---I believe---regarding the F15 Silent eagle----with a new configuration of 16 BVR missiles on the wings and underbody with conformal fuel tanks designed by Boeing believe.

The F 15 would be guided by the F22 and the F 35 towards the target---the same can be done with the JF 17's. If it can be designed to carry 6 BVR missiles---then you have taken care of some of the problems facing the air defense of the country.

By going for the F 35---you are going to take the initiative away from the enemy. If it was me----I would rather have 2 sqdrn's of F35's than 4 sqdrn's of J11d's or SU35's.

You guys are being upset at why this change in game plan----why d I keep bringing different scenarios-----. I guess you people might come across some news in the near or distant future.

So---til then--- I am not going to say anything else---. Just wanted to let you guys know---if India was a litte more aggressive last year---the deal for the J10B's was done----.

To those who are roaming around the air force bases----please look for 2 of them------.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

F-35 is out budget plane , its waste of money and every 2-3 months it gets grounded by US airforce due to problems its in systems, we should have just opted for Hornets F18 if we had that option considering , Canada and other nations are selling their units off, on avarage asking 1 Billion per plane or something ridiculous figure for 1 fighter jet


Sukhoi-35 is better suited for our NAVY's need , 40-50 Units , we can thus retire our Mirage fleet (70 planes or so) Endurance & Radar coverage and performance in air, from specialization point of view , the plane would be 100% dedicated would help retire Mirage fleet


JF17 Thunder (150)/ F16 (150) Combination is enough for the Air Defense for Time being.

For F-7PG , ideal replacement would be Gripen with AESA - 50 Units , we retire 90 F-7PG
the new Gripen units would help bring in new Technology , close integration with SAAB erie eye and we can replace older F-7PG

For 1, F-35 (8 Missile in air), We can get 6 JF17 Thunders (Armed with 42 Missiles in Air).
Specially with JF17 Thunder introducing double seat version & introduction of AESA radar the value of JF17 Thunder rises even further!! for Pakistani Airforce

The problem with its Oxygen sensors and body problems are of great concern , and most folks in USA state that it good fighter in close range battle



IDEAL SCENARIO for Pakistan Air force:

150 JF17 Thunder (Our on going project)
150 F16 C/D (Our on going project) negotiate better radar/spare engines

Off the shelf purchase

• 50 Sukhoi-35 units for NAVY (GWADAR/KARACHI), and coastal areas dedicated focus, retiring 70 Mirage units
  
• 50 Gripen NG, retiring 70 F-7PG units, only if equipped with AESA

Focus for 2016-2022
Option 1: 6 Year Project with Turkey
Start of Stealth Plane project with Turkey: For 5th Generation plane

Option 2: Off the shelf purchase with China
Off the shelf purchase of J20 , 20 Units for specialized missions

 

[Muhammad Omar]

What about Sanctions? Like Pakistan Faced Sanctions on F-16's same thing can happen to F-35... Why would someone want a Plane which strings and Controls will always be in another hands.... I think the Main reason even India Refused F-16's because of sanctions

 

[Kompromat]

Guess you are paying for it are you?

 

[Hurter]

Hi,

After much thought and deliberation---I have come to the conclusion that PAF should change gears in mid stream and go for a 2 Sqdrn strength of the F 35 initially.

They should drop the idea for the SU35 or the J11D and go for the JH7B with the upgraded engine and aesa radar.

But the key over here is the F35----. With the procurement of this aircraft---it can bring some balance to the fire fight and have some strength at its disposal to maintain and manage an aggressive and a defensive power stance---.

This is an unconventional approach to the problem at hand---. Go for the 5th gen aircraft first and then go back to the 4--- 4.5 gen aircraft---.

It will also give it enough time to develop the JF 17 blk 3 as well.

There are a couple of things that have changed-----. @Zarvan brought my attention to a thread started by Usama---I believe---regarding the F15 Silent eagle----with a new configuration of 16 BVR missiles on the wings and underbody with conformal fuel tanks designed by Boeing believe.

The F 15 would be guided by the F22 and the F 35 towards the target---the same can be done with the JF 17's. If it can be designed to carry 6 BVR missiles---then you have taken care of some of the problems facing the air defense of the country.

By going for the F 35---you are going to take the initiative away from the enemy. If it was me----I would rather have 2 sqdrn's of F35's than 4 sqdrn's of J11d's or SU35's.

You guys are being upset at why this change in game plan----why d I keep bringing different scenarios-----. I guess you people might come across some news in the near or distant future.

So---til then--- I am not going to say anything else---. Just wanted to let you guys know---if India was a litte more aggressive last year---the deal for the J10B's was done----.

To those who are roaming around the air force bases----please look for 2 of them------.

No sir.. F16's example is front of us. U.S ki potty bhi agar phass jae to hum pe sanction lag jate hain. Secondly, U.S will not offer F35 and we should avoid buying their stuff now.

 

[That Guy]

Pakistan has shown interest in the f-35, in the past. Problem?
The US reject Pakistan's interest, due to concerns that tech may fall into Chinese hands.

Second, even if Pakistan WAS approved to buy it, it is out of PAF's budget.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

I don't think we will ever be offered F-35s.

The tech is too sensitive and we are a little too close to the Chinese. Americans already believe that Chinese stole their stealth technology for J-31 and will not be delivering such a prized item to a staunch Chinese ally. It is not 60's or 80's anymore when we were provided with sabers and fighting falcons. Then we were in the American camp against USSR, now we are in the Chinese camp and not a part of US Asian pivot strategy.

We can't afford them anyways.

 

[That Guy]

I don't think we will ever be offered F-35s.

The tech is too sensitive and we are a little too close to the Chinese. Americans already believe that Chinese stole their stealth technology for J-31 and will not be delivering such a prized item to a staunch Chinese ally. It is not 60's or 80's anymore when we were provided with sabers and fighting falcons. Then we were in the American camp against USSR, now we are in the Chinese camp and not a part of US Asian pivot strategy.

We can't afford them anyways.

One problem with your comment, Pakistan is very much a part of the Asian pivote. The US cannot afford to ignore Pakistan, as it would just give China more room to expand. This is why we are seeing the US come back to Pakistan.

 

[s.k]

Su 35 cancel nai lene mastan bhai ne, darjan F35 bhejo jaldi chotay

 

[Goenitz]

BTW
any good thread regarding stealth tech ?
does it work?
especially f 35.. is it a good fighter ? spec please,,,!!!!1111

 

[krakatoa]

Its better to settle for something less rather than going for something which seems great but has sanctions issues with it.

 

[Cry.me.a.River]

Guess you are paying for it are you?

F-35 would be cheapest stealth plane in long run due to economies of scale, similar to how F-16 is cheapest aircraft for its capabilities.

 

[Bossman]

Now Mastan is acting like Nishan aka Blackhawkv101. He is embarrassing himself and the forum.

 

[Cry.me.a.River]

F-35 is out budget plane , its waste of money and every 2-3 months it gets grounded by US airforce due to problems its in systems, we should have just opted for Hornets F18 if we had that option considering , Canada and other nations are selling their units off, on avarage asking 1 Billion per plane or something ridiculous figure for 1 fighter jet


Sukhoi-35 is better suited for our NAVY's need , 40-50 Units , we can thus retire our Mirage fleet (70 planes or so) Endurance & Radar coverage and performance in air, from specialization point of view , the plane would be 100% dedicated would help retire Mirage fleet


JF17 Thunder (150)/ F16 (150) Combination is enough for the Air Defense for Time being.

For F-7PG , ideal replacement would be Gripen with AESA - 50 Units , we retire 90 F-7PG
the new Gripen units would help bring in new Technology , close integration with SAAB erie eye and we can replace older F-7PG

For 1, F-35 (8 Missile in air), We can get 6 JF17 Thunders (Armed with 42 Missiles in Air).
Specially with JF17 Thunder introducing double seat version & introduction of AESA radar the value of JF17 Thunder rises even further!! for Pakistani Airforce

The problem with its Oxygen sensors and body problems are of great concern , and most folks in USA state that it good fighter in close range battle

If that happens, both India and Pakistan may be flying F-35 ,though of different version. India is negotiating with USA for 45-50 F-35C (carrier capacity =35, rest for ensuring availability of 35 at all times) for its second Indigenous Aircraft carrier (It is part of complete package with EMALS, E-2D, F-35C, and GE gas turbine,if carrier is conventional).


It would be interesting to see a F-35A vs F-35C battle,if Pakistan choose F-35A as its stealth plane. @AMDR , @Abingdonboy , @C130 @gambit . Which among F-35A and F-35C is better version in air?

 

[HAIDER]

According to air defence analyst , F35 and F22 are kinda last of manned aircraft . Adopting more and more unmanned vehicles, help to control the cost from manufacturing to maintenance.

Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India?

Russia seems to be eager to antagonize both friend and foe alike these days.

In a move that seems to be completely inexplicable, Russia is apparently negotiating to sell Pakistan advanced Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters along with Mi-35 Hind-E attack helicopters. Perhaps more amazingly, the Russians don’t seem to grasp that their Indian allies are likely to react extremely negatively at the prospect of such a deal.

“I do not think that the contracts under discussion will cause jealousy on the part of any of the two sides,” Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told state-owned Russian media outlet Sputnik on Sept. 9.

Despite the fact that the two South Asian nations share linguistic, cultural, geographic and economic links—and are part of the same civilization—they have fought three full-scale wars over the past several decades. At the best of times, their relationship has been fraught with hostility and suspicion—and that probably won’t improve until the generation that lived through the 1947 partition of India passes on. As Australian defense analyst Brian Cloughley told Defense News: “The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift.”

An Edge for Pakistan?:

Acquisition of the Su-35 would probably give Pakistan a marginal edge in terms of capability over India’s two-seat Su-30MKI if it is bought in numbers, but the newer Flanker model only offers modest improvements over its predecessor. Most of those could likely be retrofitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Flanker fleet. In fact, there are indications that Russia and India are discussing modernizing the IAF Su-30 fleet.

How Would India Respond?:

However, Russia’s move to supply India’s archenemy with advanced weapons could lead to the nascent South Asian giant turning further towards the United States and Europe. Indian prime minister Narendra Modi has already signaled his intention to purchase 36 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters off-the-shelf from France after the cancellation of the long-running Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) debacle. And there are some signs that a deal could be imminent.

If Russia starts to sell weapons to Pakistan, that could mean that France and the Eurofighter consortium will be in a far better position for when India inevitably issues another tender to replace its dwindling and increasingly decrepit fleet of antiquated Soviet-built MiG-21s and MiG-23s. Moreover, the prospect of Su-35s in Pakistani hands could prompt the Indians to act with a sense of urgency as they watch their perceived advantages erode away.

Another possibility is that because India urgently needs to start recapitalizing its rapidly dwindling fighter inventory, they could opt to simply extend the Rafale buy to the original numbers envisioned for the MMRCA program. It would be an expensive proposition, but national security concerns might force India’s hand. In any case, the Rafale offers better technology and is probably a more effective aircraft overall than the Russian fighter.

Would India Purchase U.S. Jets in Response?:

There is also the prospect that India might move to buy fighter aircraft from the United States once it restarts the MMRCA program. The Lockheed Martin F-16IN and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet were both rejected last time around, but the United States does not have to offer the India a fourth-generation plane.

The United States could offer India participation on the Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Frankly, the United States has the wherewithal to offer India access to much better technology than Russia could ever hope to with the F-35 and follow-on projects. For India, the F-35 would kill two birds with one stone: access to advanced technology, and a trump card over Pakistan and China (in some respects). The only downside is that India would have to abide by U.S. restrictions on the aircraft--which it has traditionally resisted.

In fact, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter—when he was still the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics had expressed his willingness to sell India the fifth-generation stealth fighter in response to a question I had posed to him during an event at the Carnegie Endowment in January 2011.

"There is nothing on our side, no principle which bars that on our side, Indian participation in the Joint Strike Fighter. Right now, they're focused on these aircraft (F-16IN and F/A-18E/F) which are top-of-the-line fourth-generation fighters," Carter had said at the time.

Only time will tell if Russia ends up selling advanced weapons to Pakistan and driving India into a closer relationship with Europe and the United States. But, if Russia sells Su-35s to Pakistan, there is a chance one might see F-35s wearing IAF colors one day in the not so distant future.