PAF Should Go For The F 35---A Coupe De Grace

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If that happens, both India and Pakistan may be flying F-35 ,though of different version. India is negotiating with USA for 45-50 F-35C (carrier capacity =35, rest for ensuring availability of 35 at all times) for its second Indigenous Aircraft carrier (It is part of complete package with EMALS, E-2D, F-35C, and GE gas turbine,if carrier is conventional).


It would be interesting to see a F-35A vs F-35C battle,if Pakistan choose F-35A as its stealth plane. @AMDR , @Abingdonboy , @C130 @gambit . Which among F-35A and F-35C is better version in air?

Since we do not have carriers , we further do not have need for a F-35 , we are fine Sukhoi for navy Patrol missions in Pakistani Sea operations of our coast line supporting our Ships.
Sukhoi's flying /speed and radar capacity is ideal for patrolling Karachi / Gawadar ports
or responding to any emergency to support our frigate fleet launched from either Gwadar base or Karachi base. Fast and quick Sukhoi would reach emergency point fast

F-35 just does not fits into Pakistani Airforce agenda

Even if we got the F-35 given to us free we won't be able to keep it flying for more then 2-3 years before requiring expensive upgrade or repairs and it carries few missiles in its internal bays in a Dog fight it would be out dueled

So
Sukhoi-35 (50 Units) -> Mirage retirement (70 unit retired)
GripenNG (50 Units) -> F-7PG (70 Units retired)

The gripens are great option to replace the F-7PG fleet as we would get new radar / avionics in package and would work well with out Saab Erie Eye

 

[Signalian]

everything sanction prone here.lets get realistic for a change.

 

[HAIDER]

Since we do not have carriers , we further do not have need for a F-35 , we are fine Sukhoi for navy Patrol missions in Pakistani Sea operations of our coast line supporting our Ships.

F-35 just does not fits into Pakistani Airforce agenda

vertical take off and landing vehicle is most effective weapon in battle field. Don't need runway. Once sortie complete, it doesn t need to go back to airport for refill. Can land designated spot near the restive zone . Load the weapon and strike the enemy line without any delay.

 

[Signalian]

There will be no flying especially no vertical take off and landing when the sanctions hit in.

secondly, USA will not see F35 tech being shown to chinese when it lands in pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

Now Mastan is acting like Nishan aka Blackhawkv101. He is embarrassing himself and the forum.

@Bossman puttar too loosian lainday lainday mur jana aey

I just thought about it and cannot stop laughing.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

True , however the need for Pakistan is for improved technology and balance between the price vs performance

• We have numerous highways where planes can land and go
• We have air refueling planes
• We also have advance warning planes to give us early warning about incoming visitors

We can get sufficient birds in air to welcome any visitor.


Vertical landing is not every thing in an Air- Air combat for superiority battle in air

 

[I M Sikander]

Hi,

After much thought and deliberation---I have come to the conclusion that PAF should change gears in mid stream and go for a 2 Sqdrn strength of the F 35 initially.

They should drop the idea for the SU35 or the J11D and go for the JH7B with the upgraded engine and aesa radar.

But the key over here is the F35----. With the procurement of this aircraft---it can bring some balance to the fire fight and have some strength at its disposal to maintain and manage an aggressive and a defensive power stance---.

This is an unconventional approach to the problem at hand---. Go for the 5th gen aircraft first and then go back to the 4--- 4.5 gen aircraft---.

It will also give it enough time to develop the JF 17 blk 3 as well.

There are a couple of things that have changed-----. @Zarvan brought my attention to a thread started by Usama---I believe---regarding the F15 Silent eagle----with a new configuration of 16 BVR missiles on the wings and underbody with conformal fuel tanks designed by Boeing believe.

The F 15 would be guided by the F22 and the F 35 towards the target---the same can be done with the JF 17's. If it can be designed to carry 6 BVR missiles---then you have taken care of some of the problems facing the air defense of the country.

By going for the F 35---you are going to take the initiative away from the enemy. If it was me----I would rather have 2 sqdrn's of F35's than 4 sqdrn's of J11d's or SU35's.

You guys are being upset at why this change in game plan----why d I keep bringing different scenarios-----. I guess you people might come across some news in the near or distant future.

So---til then--- I am not going to say anything else---. Just wanted to let you guys know---if India was a litte more aggressive last year---the deal for the J10B's was done----.

To those who are roaming around the air force bases----please look for 2 of them------.

F35 is no where on paf menu card.
America has no intention to offer this beast to pakistan. Neither we can afford this 220 million per piece jet.

Mastan yaar come to real world and stop dreaming so early in the morning.

 

[Cry.me.a.River]

Since we do not have carriers , we further do not have need for a F-35 , we are fine Sukhoi for navy Patrol missions in Pakistani Sea operations of our coast line supporting our Ships.
Sukhoi's flying /speed and radar capacity is ideal for patrolling Karachi / Gawadar ports
or responding to any emergency to support our frigate fleet launched from either Gwadar base or Karachi base. Fast and quick Sukhoi would reach emergency point fast

F-35 just does not fits into Pakistani Airforce agenda

Even if we got the F-35 given to us free we won't be able to keep it flying for more then 2-3 years before requiring expensive upgrade or repairs and it carries few missiles in its internal bays in a Dog fight it would be out dueled

But your problem is that you are not getting SU-35. Even if all speculations are true, a junior minster of Russia has proposed that you could get Su-35.There are many stages of negotiations left after this,both with SUkhoi corp and Russian government, even before this deal get go ahead; and Sukhoi is dependent of India to finance its Su-30 modernization and PAK-FA program, both individually worth more than a couple of squadron of Su-35.

Unless Pakistan is willing to pay ultra high premium for getting Su-35 (say 15 billion upfront for two squadrons) like we paid Dassault to block French avionics for JF-17 ( Mirage upgradation deal was not worth even a quarter of its stated value.Most of tender cost was a bribe for Dassault to block sale of French avionics for JF-17), there is a blue moon chance of Sukhoi agreeing to sale of Su-35 to Pakistan, based purely on economic reason.



F-35 has three versions; A for Land, B and C for carriers. You people could buy A version for land.

vertical take off and landing vehicle is most effective weapon in battle field. Don't need runway. Once sortie complete, it doesn t need to go back to airport for refill. Can land designated spot near the restive zone . Load the weapon and strike the enemy line without any delay.

Vertical landing/Takeoff version F-35B is shittiest F-35 of all A/B/C. It has low range,low payload,and is less stealthy than F-35 A/C. On top of it, it may be less maneuverable than F-35C as F-35C has longer wing span than F-35B.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well few days ago we were not sure of getting 8 Submarines worth billions either but hey we ended up getting what we wanted. I think most indians stated we will get 1-2 Submarines or we do not have funds for Submarines. We could have bought 2 Aircraft carriers with that kind of money however we had different things in mind

However , Russia /Pakistan defense is growing and if Egypt can have both
Apache and KA-52 I am sure we can also negotiate appropriate options to get Sukhoi 35 introduced in Pakistan air-force.

Pakistan Air-force has not exhausted their budget lately we had small purchases for Jordanian air-force in 2015 , and we have surplus of $$ when we did not get the J10b as it was still being tested. Where did we spend cash in 2015?? Just the Jordanian F16 deal which it self was very good deal

So we have our options open

Also Russian leaders have openly stated , they are open for broader defensive cooperation.

Sukhoi company has world wide customers india is 'a' customer. India themselves purchased
certain planes overlooking Russia in past , and Russia did not object

New customers always come and purchase what they need.

And plus the planes we are getting are for coastal defence and ship defence.
They will help retire our aging fleet so over all numbers of our airforce will remain same

Also India has also bought weapons in open market , not like its fully committed to all purchases from Russia or Sukhoi

> The tankers
> The helicopters
> The missiles
> The ammunition
> Drinking chai with prez
> The awacs from Israel

Russia did not object to Indian purchase so India should also respect Russian counter parts and know their own place

Russia was recently snubbed by French , when Mistral was not delivered did India cancel the plane deal in retaliation - I don't think so ....

India is looking for its own interest and Russia is diversifying its sales

 

[MastanKhan]

F35 is no where on paf menu card.
America has no intention to offer this beast to pakistan. Neither we can afford this 220 million per piece jet.

Mastan yaar come to real world and stop dreaming so early in the morning.

Hi,

If not sooner---then later you guys are going to find out what I am saying.

 

[gambit]

If that happens, both India and Pakistan may be flying F-35 ,though of different version. India is negotiating with USA for 45-50 F-35C (carrier capacity =35, rest for ensuring availability of 35 at all times) for its second Indigenous Aircraft carrier (It is part of complete package with EMALS, E-2D, F-35C, and GE gas turbine,if carrier is conventional).


It would be interesting to see a F-35A vs F-35C battle,if Pakistan choose F-35A as its stealth plane. @AMDR , @Abingdonboy , @C130 @gambit . Which among F-35A and F-35C is better version in air?

The C version is for the US Navy. It has carrier launch specifics requirements. If Pakistan have no doctrinal plan for an aircraft carrier and is allowed to purchase the -35, better off the PAF with the A/B versions.

 

[Thorough Pro]

The big question is who is going to give us F35 even if we have the finances and the will to acquire them. The second and very important question is do we have the technical capability to digest that technology to maintain and service them at this point in time?

Let alone F35, I don't think US would even consider selling F-15 or F-18 to Pakistan in this situation.

Hi,

After much thought and deliberation---I have come to the conclusion that PAF should change gears in mid stream and go for a 2 Sqdrn strength of the F 35 initially.

They should drop the idea for the SU35 or the J11D and go for the JH7B with the upgraded engine and aesa radar.

But the key over here is the F35----. With the procurement of this aircraft---it can bring some balance to the fire fight and have some strength at its disposal to maintain and manage an aggressive and a defensive power stance---.

This is an unconventional approach to the problem at hand---. Go for the 5th gen aircraft first and then go back to the 4--- 4.5 gen aircraft---.

It will also give it enough time to develop the JF 17 blk 3 as well.

There are a couple of things that have changed-----. @Zarvan brought my attention to a thread started by Usama---I believe---regarding the F15 Silent eagle----with a new configuration of 16 BVR missiles on the wings and underbody with conformal fuel tanks designed by Boeing believe.

The F 15 would be guided by the F22 and the F 35 towards the target---the same can be done with the JF 17's. If it can be designed to carry 6 BVR missiles---then you have taken care of some of the problems facing the air defense of the country.

By going for the F 35---you are going to take the initiative away from the enemy. If it was me----I would rather have 2 sqdrn's of F35's than 4 sqdrn's of J11d's or SU35's.

You guys are being upset at why this change in game plan----why d I keep bringing different scenarios-----. I guess you people might come across some news in the near or distant future.

So---til then--- I am not going to say anything else---. Just wanted to let you guys know---if India was a litte more aggressive last year---the deal for the J10B's was done----.

To those who are roaming around the air force bases----please look for 2 of them------.

 

[Cry.me.a.River]

The C version is for the US Navy. It has carrier launch specifics requirements. If Pakistan have no doctrinal plan for an aircraft carrier and is allowed to purchase the -35, better off the PAF with the A/B versions.

Yes I knew that.

My question was that since India is (most probably as deal has not been finalized, but there is already a Indo-US working group on this) going for F-35C for IACII (As part of package EMALS, E-2D, F-35C, and GE gas turbine Engines);so if Pakistan buys F-35A , both India and Pakistan would be flying F-35's but of different versions.

Which among F-35A and F-35C is better in one to one fight? This should not be difficult to judge for a knowledgeable person like you as basically they are same Aircraft, with some modifications.

 

[ganesh623]

So you did your research and concluded to buy 2 squadrons of F-35.
ROFL.

Did pakistan govt outsourced this research work to you ?
NO ? then go out and take some fresh air, chill with gf.

 

[Cry.me.a.River]

Sukhoi company has world wide customers india is 'a' customer. India themselves purchased
certain planes overlooking Russia in past , and Russia did not object

New customers always come and purchase what they need.

You are not understanding. It is not about whether Indian buys from Russia exclusively or not; it is whether Sukhoi/Russia could get potentially more benefits from India or Pakistan. As I said earlier, Sukhoi corp is expectant of two large Indian orders , one of Sukhoi-30 upgrade program, and another for PAK-FA/FGFA with combined worth of $50 Billion+, for both of whom there are qualitatively better options available in market. This puts India in a position where it could block sale of Sukhoi planes to Pakistan, similar to how it has blocked French sales to Pakistan.

Neither Russians nor French love either India or Pakistan. They are pure businessman. If one could give them a better deal, they would drop another like a hot potato.