What's new

PAF participates in "Red Flag" and "Green Flag"

Gentlemen... you do not need captive missiles for training with the exception of the AIM-9. Radar missile shots (AIM-7, AIM-120) are simulated completely with software. The computers both on the aircraft itself, and the data transmitted through the all-important ACMI pod, evaluate the quality of the shot, and the likelihood of a successful kill. This is all based upon a large number of factors - range, quality of the radar track during any semi-active phase, kinematics, etc.

That is the reason I had asked earlier, if these F-16 fire control and internal software is "AIM-120 ready" meaning that it has AIM-120 symbology, simulated time-of-flight, and other cues needed to employ the AIM-120.

It is senseless to carry a full load of air-air missiles if none of them will be expended. What was done in the past is that a single centerline tank is retained, and not jettisoned, for aerial maneuvering. This simulates a rough aerodynamic and performance penalty (drag) on the airframe, equivalent to a load of several A-A missiles.

A captive AIM-9 (live seeker, the remainder is dummy) is always used so the pilot receives the warbling tone that a real missile gives, and knows whether the shot is good, and the seeker is tracking the target, and not hot rocks, the sun, or flares.

No one is handcuffing the PAF pilots. A captive AIM-120 is not needed for most training shots.
 
.
Gentlemen... you do not need captive missiles for training with the exception of the AIM-9. Radar missile shots (AIM-7, AIM-120) are simulated completely with software. The computers both on the aircraft itself, and the data transmitted through the all-important ACMI pod, evaluate the quality of the shot, and the likelihood of a successful kill. This is all based upon a large number of factors - range, quality of the radar track during any semi-active phase, kinematics, etc.

That is the reason I had asked earlier, if these F-16 fire control and internal software is "AIM-120 ready" meaning that it has AIM-120 symbology, simulated time-of-flight, and other cues needed to employ the AIM-120.

It is senseless to carry a full load of air-air missiles if none of them will be expended. What was done in the past is that a single centerline tank is retained, and not jettisoned, for aerial maneuvering. This simulates a rough aerodynamic and performance penalty (drag) on the airframe, equivalent to a load of several A-A missiles.

A captive AIM-9 (live seeker, the remainder is dummy) is always used so the pilot receives the warbling tone that a real missile gives, and knows whether the shot is good, and the seeker is tracking the target, and not hot rocks, the sun, or flares.

No one is handcuffing the PAF pilots. A captive AIM-120 is not needed for most training shots.
Thanks for clarification sir.I thought so too as the french rafale were carrying no missile on red flag except for pods and fuel tanks which also gives them better maneuverability due to less load.
Yes, All F16 can fire AIM120 or Sparrow. (F-16.net)
Modifications

The Pakistan Air Force currently has the Block 15 F-16A/B model in operation, which has an upgraded APG-66 radar that brings it close to the MLU (Mid-life Update) radar technology. The main advantage is the ability to use the AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles if they were ever to be released to the PAF. Furthermore, the radar is capable of sorting out tight formations of aircraft and has a 15%-20% range increase over previous models. All the earlier F-16s were brought up to OCU standards and have received the Falcon UP structural modification package.
 
.
Here's something I don't understand. Unless terminology has changed, or perhaps the PAF uses a different terminology from the USAF, the word interdiction (to me, at least) means an air to ground mission that strikes supply lines and staging areas well behind the battle area. We did not normally use that to mean air to air. In a typical red flag mission, if you were "Blue" counter-air, that's what we called it. Or perhaps the mission was escort, CAP, or sweep... but it was not normally called interdiction. So I'm wondering what the PAF mission actually is when tasked with it.

Even with A/G missions, they weren't all done with live ordnance. Usually it was BDU-33, little practice bombs, but an air-ground mission can be simulated entirely without ordnance as well, if desired.
 
.
Here's something I don't understand. Unless terminology has changed, or perhaps the PAF uses a different terminology from the USAF, the word interdiction (to me, at least) means an air to ground mission that strikes supply lines and staging areas well behind the battle area. We did not normally use that to mean air to air. In a typical red flag mission, if you were "Blue" counter-air, that's what we called it. Or perhaps the mission was escort, CAP, or sweep... but it was not normally called interdiction. So I'm wondering what the PAF mission actually is when tasked with it.

Even with A/G missions, they weren't all done with live ordnance. Usually it was BDU-33, little practice bombs, but an air-ground mission can be simulated entirely without ordnance as well, if desired.

the Nellis agenda for RF stated 'CAS' if i recall ! - what wld CAS be in US terminology?:cheers:
 
. .
Normally, CAS = Close Air Support, using a dedicated man on the ground to dynamically issue attack orders in support of troops in contact.

slightly off-topic but...
what IYO has the PAF conducted in the FATA - CAS/Interdiction/A2G !
 
.
BRIEFING - THE NELLIS RANGE COMPLEX , USAF'S FORBIDDEN COUNTRY

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY

DATE: 05-Aug-1998
EDITION: 1998
VOLUME/ISSUE: 030/005

BY LINE:

Mark Farmer

INTRODUCTION:

After decades of secrecy, new details of operations and capabilities
within the vast area of the US Nellis Range Complex in Nevada are
emerging. Mark Farmer reports


Although many bases within the US Air Force (USAF) fight hard to
survive and another round of base closures looms, Nellis Air Force
Base, its associated Range Complex and embedded secure test and
evaluation installations can realistically assume that their
collective future is assured.
The complex is the 'crown jewel' of the US defence test and training
establishment, paid for with tens of billions of dollars over half a
century.
Over the past year, Jane's Defence Weekly has been allowed
unparalleled access to commanders and control facilities and has
flown extensively throughout the ranges in a Red Flag mission of the
414th Combat Training Squadron "Aggressors".

Larger than Switzerland, the 1.5 million ha live-fire, test and
evaluation ranges at Nellis operate under the aegis of military
services, government agencies and corporate defence concerns. Over
50% of the weapons that the USAF uses in live-fire exercises are
expended over the range.
Last year, over 250 units and more than 20,000 personnel
participated in a Flag exercise flying over 900 aircraft in over
11,000 sorties. A senior intelligence officer said: "Nellis is the
centre of the universe for all that flies". Tactics, weapons and
entire aircraft have been developed within the range under
conditions of tight security.
Most training and weapons firing takes place within the highly
instrumented southeast and north central ranges where most Red,
Green and Maple Flag operations take place. The landscape is dotted
with video cameras and cinetheodolites, which document training and
testing events, and target arrays simulating airfields, armoured
convoys, underground bunkers and a nuclear storage facility. Realism
is heightened by a number of electronic warfare emitters linked to
19 surface-to-air missile (SAM) radars and 18 anti-aircraft
artillery radars along with 10 unmanned threat emitters and 42
Smokey SAM launchers.
While the Nellis range is designated as a Military Operating Area
and geographically the ranges are wide-open, training flights are
constrained by the existence of several severely restricted areas.
The most notorious is R-4808E surrounding Groom Dry Lake. The
forbidden airspace is known to military pilots as 'The Box' and is
under the airspace direction of 'Dreamland Control'. The base,
referred to as Area 51, is well-known as the birthplace of the U-2,
A-12, SR-71, Tacit Blue and F-117A aircraft.
Recent evidence indicates that the base is managed by E G & G
Special Projects in Las Vegas and is actually Detachment 3 of the
Air Force Flight Test Center headquartered at Edwards Air Force Base
(AFB), California, and comes under the control of the Air Force
Materiel Command.
While not commenting on past or current operations at the sprawling
base and after over 40 years of denials, USAF officials now
acknowledge the existence of the installation.
Despite black project budget cuts, several helicopter, aircraft,
missile and electronic warfare programmes are believed to be
undergoing testing at the facility and as many as 1,500 people a day
are ferried daily to the base on unmarked Boeing 737-200s, call sign
Janet, from Las Vegas and Burbank.
The location of 'The Box' in the mid-eastern part of the complex
means that attackers in Flag exercises must enter the northern part
of the Nellis range via several chokepoints that make it easy for
Red Forces to engage and kill them. To improve flexibility in
training, Red Flag officials have called for airspace restrictions
near Groom Dry Lake to be eased, and recently there have been a
number of instances where one-time-only permission has been granted
to penetrate 'The Box'. Airspace restrictions also apply over the
Nevada Test Site at the southern end of the Nellis range. The
nuclear-testing grounds have long been the location of very
sensitive weapons and nuclear science research.
Now that underground testing has been suspended with the exception
of subcritical tests at the U1a complex 305m below the desert, USAF
and allied aircraft are allowed to overfly most of the test site at
an altitude of 19,000ft (5,790m) or above. Marines and special
operations forces use the facilities and highly varied terrain to
conduct unconventional warfare and anti-terrorist training while the
Defense Special Weapons Agency continues deep underground target
defeat and other research within areas 12 and 16.
Due to delays in decision-making by the Federal Aviation
Administration, Kistler Aerospace has moved most of its reusable
launch vehicle testing programme to Australia, although Kistler
remains confident it can eventually conduct operations from its test
site launch base.
To the north of Nellis lies the Tonopah Test Range (TTR), the home
of the F-117A fighter aircraft during the late 1980s and the site
of continued Joint Test Article studies where nuclear weapons are
test-dropped without their operational physics package.
Under the jurisdiction of USAF and Sandia National Laboratory, the
TTR is used mostly as a "pickled" [warm storage] facility though
An-2s, Mil-8, Mil-24 and five 'Scud' missiles and their transporter
erector launchers operate from the base during Flag and Joint
Suppression of Enemy Air Defence exercises. Several Janet flights
per weekday bring contractor and USAF personnel to the installation
and there are persistent though unproven rumours of some test
programmes being based at the TTR.
MiG-29s bought from Moldova were to be based at the TTR due to their
short range and lack of infrared equipment. However, it is now
unlikely that more than three of the 'Fulcrums' will be restored to
flight status, with one 'Fulcrum C' being delivered to the Threat
Training Facility "petting zoo" at Nellis AFB run by the 547th
Intelligence Squadron.
Plans are under discussion to use the TTR as the 'Motherland' of the
Flag battle scenarios. Former users of the base lament its current
condition: one former high-ranking USAF officer based there during
the F-117A's secret operations said: "the base is a national asset,
many interesting things happened there and could happen again with
the right support".
The Tolicha Peak Electronic Combat Range lies to the southwest of
the TTR and is shielded by a small mountain range to the west.
Little is known of the capabilities of the installation and no USAF
or range contractors are willing to discuss its mission or
equipment.
Of all activities within the Nellis Range Complex, the least
discussed is Site IV to the east of TTR. The USAF installation is
reported to be where 'acquired' Soviet, Russian, Chinese and 'gray'
threat radars and electronic countermeasures (ECM) equipment are
tested against US aircraft, missiles, nuclear weapons, targeting
sensors and ECM/electronic support measures equipment.
Observations indicate that the site has grown in recent years.
Throughout the range there are various small airfields and
installations of unknown purpose. One airstrip reportedly used
pop-up water sprinklers to darken the desert-coloured tarmac to
increase its visibility so that aircraft could land when no Soviet
reconnaissance satellites were within range.
The complex could accommodate testing and training of army artillery
in the southern ranges firing towards Papoose Lake. This would help
overcome firing azimuth restrictions at the National Training
Facility in southern California.
The only operational units within the complex are the 11th and 15th
Reconnaissance Squadrons equipped with Predator unmanned aerial
vehicles at the Indian Springs Air Force Auxillary Field to the
southeast of the Nevada Test Site. Some sources indicate that the
15th is having problems with its ground-control station and four
Predators.
Marine helicopters and Special Operations Forces teams work from the
field and the Thunderbird Demonstration Team practises nearby. The
complex is undergoing a prolonged environmental impact statement
process in conjunction with a forthcoming request for either an
indefinite or 25-year withdrawal of the Range Complex lands from
public land use.
The Secretary of the Air Force plans to present the plans to the
public this September. Modelled after the permanent withdrawal of
public lands in Alaska for military use, USAF officials would prefer
the indefinite withdrawal option.
Nellis AFB base itself is now safe from additional urban
encroachment with the new zoning of explosive ordnance loading areas
which should keep developers at a safe distance.
- Mark Farmer is a freelance writer based in Alaska.

CAPTION:

The Tonopah Test Range.The base was
the home of the F-117A stealth fighter aircraft and associated test
platforms during the late 1980s

CAPTION:

The Groom Lake facility. The airspace around this area is under the direction of 'Dreamland Control' Red Flag officials have recently requested that flying
restrictions be relaxed around this area.

CAPTION:


Last year, more than 20,000 personnel took part in one Flag exercise
flying over 900 aircraft in 11,000 sorties. (Photo: M Farmer/Jane's)


CAPTION:

Predator UAVs are operated by the 11th and 15th
Reconnaissance Squadrons southeast of the Nevada Test Site.

Nellis special use airspace

CAPTION:

Nellis special use airspace

Left:overhead view of the

CAPTION:

Left: overhead view of the Groom Dry Lake

CAPTION:

Below: Area 2, is the largest nuclear weapons storage area in the western USA over 200 bombs and cruise missile warheads are thought to be held there.
 
.
slightly off-topic but...
what IYO has the PAF conducted in the FATA - CAS/Interdiction/A2G !

I believe it lies under COIN and CAS depending on the mission.

If F16 is loitering and waiting for targets to appear, its COIN, otherwise if troops have already engaged the enemy and plan the mission up-front before aircraft takes off for target, its CAS.

It would have fallen into Interdiction if the enemy had Radars, Sams and CAP aircrafts; in which case the Viper pilots would have to cater in these factors and had taken necessary precautions, i.e. Jammer pods, A2A weapons load, Harm missiles etc.

Regards,
Sapper
 
.
I believe it lies under COIN and CAS depending on the mission.

If F16 is loitering and waiting for targets to appear, its COIN, otherwise if troops have already engaged the enemy and plan the mission up-front before aircraft takes off for target, its CAS.

It would have fallen into Interdiction if the enemy had Radars, Sams and CAP aircrafts; in which case the Viper pilots would have to cater in these factors and had taken necessary precautions, i.e. Jammer pods, A2A weapons load, Harm missiles etc.

Regards,
Sapper
Rightly said i also have read a few articles regarding PAFs OPS in NWFP and they are conducting coin operations....:agree:
 
.
slightly off-topic but...
what IYO has the PAF conducted in the FATA - CAS/Interdiction/A2G !

Both. Interdiction was done in the initial phases of the engagement when the Arny supplied specific target list to the PAF of sites where they believed the militants were regrouping, their ammunition dumps and logistics centers etc. and these were hit in interdiction sorties. Once the Army moved into Swat valley, PAF had their forward observers embedded with Army units and this is when they called in CAS as and when the need arose.

People tend to interchangably use CAS and interdiction eventhough these are two different things however both come under surface attack category for the PAF.
 
Last edited:
.
I believe it lies under COIN and CAS depending on the mission.

If F16 is loitering and waiting for targets to appear, its COIN, otherwise if troops have already engaged the enemy and plan the mission up-front before aircraft takes off for target, its CAS.

It would have fallen into Interdiction if the enemy had Radars, Sams and CAP aircrafts; in which case the Viper pilots would have to cater in these factors and had taken necessary precautions, i.e. Jammer pods, A2A weapons load, Harm missiles etc.

Regards,
Sapper

Imho, COIN is not a term used to describe PAF or Air power missions. Its a general term used to describe a type of warfare.
If F16 is loitering and waiting for targets to appear, its COIN, otherwise if troops have already engaged the enemy and plan the mission up-front before aircraft takes off for target, its CAS.

CAS could be as a result of pre-planned missions or as targets of opportunity appear while the aircraft is over a theater where ground operations are taking place. The key with CAS is that it has to be coordinated with the ground forces because the air power is being brought to bear to help out the troops on the ground. The airpower is used in close proximity to own troops due to the close contact with the other side.
It would have fallen into Interdiction if the enemy had Radars, Sams and CAP aircrafts; in which case the Viper pilots would have to cater in these factors and had taken necessary precautions, i.e. Jammer pods, A2A weapons load, Harm missiles etc.

Here too, what to interdict is up to the PAF. If they are stopping the advance or hindering the mobility of the other side, then they are conducting interdiction. Interdiction missions usually require planning and intelligence about the target area before hand because the aircraft have to fly in a certain configuration of ordnance. However with swingrole and multirole aircraft, there could be situations that a mission is changed midway through flight.
 
Last edited:
.
Red Flag provides unique training opportunities

Posted 7/27/2010 Updated 7/27/2010 Email story Print story



by Airman 1st Class Daniel Phelps
Red Flag 10-4 Public Affairs

7/27/2010 - NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. -- Four times per year, U.S. forces and allies from around the world gather at "The Home of the Fighter Pilot" to participate in Red Flag and gain coalition air combat experiences in a peacetime environment.

They fly together on the Nevada Test and Training Range here, the U.S. Air Force's premiere military training area with more than 12,000 square miles of airspace and 2.9 million acres of land. The NTTR also includes 1,900 possible targets, realistic threat systems and an opposing enemy force that cannot be replicated anywhere in the world.

During Red Flag 10-4, more than 500 personnel are launching over 70 aircraft, ranging from F-15s and F-16s to EA-6Bs, EA-18Gs, E-3s, F/A-18s, and MC-130s, twice per day and KC-135s are pumping around 150,000 gallons of fuel daily.

Participating in this Red Flag 10-4 are members from all branches of the U.S. armed forces, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Singapore and NATO.

"Red Flag provides challenging scenarios, and only through teamwork and the integration of all the assets deployed to Red Flag can we succeed," said Col. Don Godier, 20th Fighter Wing vice commander and Air Expeditionary Wing commander for Red Flag. "No single aircraft can handle the tactical challenges that Red Flag presents and this provides the opportunity to fly with coalition partners and prepare for future high intensity conflicts."

Red Flag also provides unique training for more than just pilots because it replicates the full spectrum of threats.

"This exercise covers most scenarios, strategies and tactics that could occur and as an intelligence officer, it is rare to get war situation training," said Hungarian Air Force Capt. Victor Nemeti, from NATO Squadron 2, Geilenkirchen, Germany. "We had meetings with all of the units here. It was good to have all the intelligence communities come together and share their experience and questions. We were able to learn a lot from the others. It is an amazing learning opportunity."

"From the number of aircraft here to support the coalition effort and even the weather and climate at Nellis, all of this combines to makes this training valuable," said Canadian Air Force Maj. Ed Roberds, the NATO deployed forces commander. "Red Flag creates an opportunity to bring the crew into a multinational environment."

Red Flag 10-4 runs through July 31.
 
.
Normally, CAS = Close Air Support, using a dedicated man on the ground to dynamically issue attack orders in support of troops in contact.

Like "Tears of Sun" movie :azn: close Air support!
 
.
JF17-10-114-1739.jpg

A PAF JF-17 AT DISPLAY WITH A CHINESE WEAPONS KIT AT FARNBOROUGH AIR SHOW 2010
 
. .

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom