PAF locked on 9 shoot only two...PAF official....0n 27 Feb....

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

There's not a single country on the planet, that pointed fingers at India on Feb 26, for violating Pakistan's sovereignty. Even Christian Fair, till date practically cries herself hoarse that she 'wishes' India had bombed us to bits. US wanted us to 'de-escalate'. Even the 'brotherly' nation of Iran was issuing threats of committing attacks on Pakistani soil right after. Heck, even China did not issue any 'threats' to India on 26th, instead had called upon both countries to 'exercise restraint' - alongside EU and France. Our Arab brothers were inviting Sushma Swaraj to speak at OIC conference just prior to the strikes and literally stayed mum on the day of 26th Feb, 2019. There was a heck a lot of diplomatic pressure on Pakistan to just 'accept' the strikes and not do anything. (I actually used Google to specifically make sure that my claim above is dead right. Feel free to do that same, enter the dates and see statements from all countries on 26th Feb)

We really had no one in our corner on that day, except ourselves. And for once, Pakistan did what it does absolutely best when faced with dire consequences and pushed against the wall. That cornered tiger syndrome is pretty f'n real, if you ask me.

And while no one country had anticipated Pakistan to respond. Not even India. We did come back forcefully and PAF's response was actually measured as per damage caused and gave a surprise to not just the Indians, but to friends and foes alike. Where's the cowardice in taking war directly to an enemy that is multiples of time bigger than you in tech, size and practically had the world siding with it? And to make sure to land a punch, that it had to withdraw an entire arm of its armed forces from the fight. When was the last time a so called super-power like force withdrew and 'entire' arm of their armed forces one day 'one' and resorted to a sub conventional threat, only out of fear of unbearable losses?
India practically did, what the entire world until that day anticipated Pakistan would do, if faced with a massive conventional strike. They have managed to subvert the strategic calculus of a multitude of nations, in the aftermath of this.

And Pakistan and Pakistanis really need to stop forgetting lessons learnt in the time of hardship.

Once again, read the piece 'Hit and Run' by DCAS Ops of IAF, where he clearly puts it to his own leadership that when they think about firing SOW at Pakistan, they'd know that similar capability exists with the other side just as much. They have this realization burnt into their minds now.

Except Turkey!!! For she's not just the name of a country in this world!! By HIS PERMISION Turkey will be again like the Hazret-i Zulkernain with the Zulfiker in her hand....

Charity begins at home. Syria is the test case now as the heads of the Zalims are being chopped off...

 

[War Thunder]

To reduce risk of full war or nuke war

Is called "Cowardice" in other words, or in the language of Sun Tzu.
If you strike, strike hard with an intent to throw in everything. Only that forces the enemy to back off. Not to shoot two and chant Peace, and expose yourself as weak and unwilling.

Now the apologists can say whatever as usual. But war is war and its not won by singing songs of peace. You helped enemy prepare better so they can come at you more prepared and more willing to shoot all of your birds out of the sky.
And this is why you will always be the underdog, the weaker one, the one trying to escape war instead of willing to initiate it. And this is exactly why we lost East Pakistan.

Because we are always a damsel in distress, seeking the help of international community to educe tensions with our enemies. Just like we were waiting for the 7th fleet to arrive.
Pure slave mindset in existence and in practice even after 70 years of independence.

But yes, Apologists

 

[Mumm-Ra]

There's not a single country on the planet, that pointed fingers at India on Feb 26, for violating Pakistan's sovereignty. Even Christian Fair, till date practically cries herself hoarse that she 'wishes' India had bombed us to bits. US wanted us to 'de-escalate'. Even the 'brotherly' nation of Iran was issuing threats of committing attacks on Pakistani soil right after. Heck, even China did not issue any 'threats' to India on 26th, instead had called upon both countries to 'exercise restraint' - alongside EU and France. Our Arab brothers were inviting Sushma Swaraj to speak at OIC conference just prior to the strikes and literally stayed mum on the day of 26th Feb, 2019. There was a heck a lot of diplomatic pressure on Pakistan to just 'accept' the strikes and not do anything. (I actually used Google to specifically make sure that my claim above is dead right. Feel free to do that same, enter the dates and see statements from all countries on 26th Feb)

We really had no one in our corner on that day, except ourselves. And for once, Pakistan did what it does absolutely best when faced with dire consequences and pushed against the wall. That cornered tiger syndrome is pretty f'n real, if you ask me.

And while no one country had anticipated Pakistan to respond. Not even India. We did come back forcefully and PAF's response was actually measured as per damage caused and gave a surprise to not just the Indians, but to friends and foes alike. Where's the cowardice in taking war directly to an enemy that is multiples of time bigger than you in tech, size and practically had the world siding with it? And to make sure to land a punch, that it had to withdraw an entire arm of its armed forces from the fight. When was the last time a so called super-power like force withdrew and 'entire' arm of their armed forces one day 'one' and resorted to a sub conventional threat, only out of fear of unbearable losses?
India practically did, what the entire world until that day anticipated Pakistan would do, if faced with a massive conventional strike. They have managed to subvert the strategic calculus of a multitude of nations, in the aftermath of this.

And Pakistan and Pakistanis really need to stop forgetting lessons learnt in the time of hardship.

Once again, read the piece 'Hit and Run' by DCAS Ops of IAF, where he clearly puts it to his own leadership that when they think about firing SOW at Pakistan, they'd know that similar capability exists with the other side just as much. They have this realization burnt into their minds now.

This post is delight to read. Why haven't we seen you around more?

The main issue is not showing cowardice. I do not think that anyone accuses PAF of cowardice. It is simply pressing your advantage home and ensuring that the other side does not resort to such attacks in the future. In all probability, they would try to do it again once they have inducted Rafale and S-400. Had a higher number of their jest been downed, such use of air power would not even be considered again.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Think dispassionately. Pakistan is not China or US but neither is India those tow things. Even after shooting down of their Mig, India, reported on this forum, was going for a missile strike against us. We thwarted it by threatening three times more destruction. So our shooting down of Mig, reported shooting down of an SU-30, bombing their facilities and locking of their planes did not had the intended effect of keeping India. We simply showed our capabilities and did not press the full advantage of these capabilities. Understand that no body is going to war in South Asia any time soon.

Most of the members in this forum as pretty convinced that India will again try to conduct a similar operation. News and statements of their policy makers have also mentioned that now use of air power is accepted form of "punishing Pakistan". Had we downed 8-10 IAF planes, this perception in the Indian circles would have vanished. There would be no talk of use of IAF in any scenario unless total war. PAF was dealt a very strong hand in 27th feb but it did not get the full advantage of cowing down the Indians once and for all.

Pak's policy is constant - Inna Lillahi ve Inna Ilahi Rajeun....

It's been working fine since Merhum Zia-ul Hak had a "little chat" with Late Rajiv Gandhi....

 

[Mumm-Ra]

Pak's policy is constant - Inna Lillahi ve Inna Ilahi Rajeun....

It's been working fine since Merhum Zia-ul Hak had a "little chat" with Late Rajiv Gandhi....

Hahaha...very well put bro.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

In all probability, they would try to do it again once they have inducted Rafale and S-400. Had a higher number of their jest been downed, such use of air power would not even be considered again.

As for the Russian made defense stuffs, especially the finished products, leave them to our boys and girls in Turkey!!! They're doing a fine job to "un-wind" them......

 

[Mumm-Ra]

As for the Russian made defense stuffs, especially the finished products, leave them to our boys and girls in Turkey!!! They're doing a fine job to "un-wind" them......

I am hoping somethings will be shared with PAF in our next joint exercise regarding these systems
Let's not derail further lest we face the wrath of Eagle.

 

[ARMalik]

Indian Military is in a shock, even without bombing of their depots/HQ and downing of their aircrafts.

Think rationally.
Did you see the video in which PAF showed the bomb targeting Indian depot, but in final stages it veered off to the left and fell onto green habitat ?
Don't you think PAF could have destroyed all ground targets also, since they were locked on too ? Then why did all bombs fell in un-populated areas ?

On the other hand, did you consider why is the fire from PA on LOC so accurate that it actually kills Indian soldiers/officers and destroys their infrastructure?

The answer lies within the Qs.

Mate, my post was about shooting down indian jets, not stand off weapons or ground targets. I actually agree with you on ground targets since my view is that destroying a fighter jet is much more significant and has a much bigger psychological impact than attacking ground targets. Anyone can attack ground targets but only the best can destroy 9 fighter jets.

 

[Mrc]

They did not intend to bomb trees, they intended to bomb buildings full of people. But granted your point is valid, since they hadn't caused any loss of life on the ground PAF took steps to ensure no one was harmed in their facilities. I am sure that had they managed to cause loss of life, those bombs would not have hot green patches in their bases.

However, the IAF planes coming to challenge you were fair game. They could have been hit. We would have delivered a stronger message. India was forced to look towards missile attack anyway. It's not like they willingly diffused the situation after 27th feb.



This was a military operation. You were not sending them garlands. But I would appreciate if you could share the link of such procedure. Would definitely help in advancing my knowledge. thanks

Point taken.

From my stand point there was a mis calculation at command level

The response would have been sufficient for a rational enemy.. and d that's how it was structured

But we are dealing with irrational fundamentalist delusional minds here .. So i hope next time they will get what they ask for

 

[Mentee]

Should have gone for all of them...

You lock, you shoot...

They've come for you, so you take them out...

Imagine the misery of the pilots deliberately sent behind enemy lines somehow managed to aim at the adversaries but waited for an order to execute anything. We got lucky that all came back.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

Point taken.

From my stand point there was a mis calculation at command level

The response would have been sufficient for a rational enemy.. and d that's how it was structured

But we are dealing with irrational fundamentalist delusional minds here .. So i hope next time they will get what they ask for

Fingers crossed for that.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Hmm..PAF claims it locked on 9 Indian aircrafts, however they are not even able to present any evidence whatsoever that even Su 30 was shot down, despite repeated claims, that more evidence is on its way?

Agar Rafale hota tou yeah na hota.

 

[Mrc]

Fingers crossed for that.

They need to focus on mindset behind the madness

 

[Signalian]

Killing military personal was not the aim and hence PAF was right in veering off the bombs into the green area. However, India had crossed international border and bombed KPK. The IAF aircrafts that were locked should have been downed. That was fair game.

You said in line that I highlighted killing military personnel was not the aim and then you say that aircrafts that were locked on should have been shot at. Their pilots would have landed inside IOK, and maybe 1 or 2 or more would have been killed due to any occurrence of aircraft crash. So the first thing to decide is - was killing military personnel the aim or not ?

Now as you say, IAF crossed IB, or say LOC and then bombed KPK. Then PAF also crossed IB or LOC and bombed IOK, this is fair game, tit for tat response. Abhinandan in his Mig-21 crossed over and was shot down.

Now if PAF had to go in for the kill, lets say, an aim to down IAF aircraft even if they fall inside IOK, then why in the first place lock on ground targets, veer bombs left or right towards vegetation, seconds before impact ?
Why not just unleash 5 x squadron worth aicrafts loaded with bombs and bomb the hell out of Military targets and airfield in IOK and start a war?

This means there was a plan in place.
I mean whats the plan - start a war or give response ?

If any target that is locked has to be taken out then India must have locked on to military targets through SSM (CMs) and Pakistan would have done the same, but locking means that fire order has to be given at all costs ?

Next, it seems that IAF aircrafts that were locked on had probably disengaged from a fight, but the result would have been different had they engaged PAF aircraft in air to air combat, the SU-30 that was caught in the middle, was shot down.

 

[Dark1]

Killing military personal was not the aim and hence PAF was right in veering off the bombs into the green area. However, India had crossed international border and bombed KPK. The IAF aircrafts that were locked should have been downed. That was fair game.

But India and Pakistan regularly kill each others soldiers on the LOC . No reason to pull punches.
I feel paf planned well by keeping the su30s out of the picture by launching the AMRAAMS early and then launched their air to ground missiles from the safety of their territory. Low risk.
It seems difficult to prevent a repeat as these missiles have a range of 50 to 100 km. If fired from the safety of your own territory, how does a opponent during peacetime, prevent their launch from deep inside a territory ?
During wartime ofcourse any enemy aircraft in the air, at any distance, will be tracked and treated as hostile.
My learning from the incidents was -
1. Indian mig21s didnt have encrypted communications , which is horrific in this day and age.
2. Abhinandan showed unprofessional behavior in crossing over , as per the then air chief, he crossed over in josh.
3. The Indian attack was more of a message and test than aimed at causing damage.
4. India didnt want escalation so all the official statements on the 26th of targeting only terrorist camps and not Pakistan army. Totally ameuterish as when you have bombed the territory of another country, you cant rely on their good intentions. You should be prepared for total war.
5. Pakistan wont retaliate strongly/ nonproportionally incase of future strikes. The Pakistani response was apologetic , ie we did not deliberately target the Indian camps. Contrast with India saying we deliberately targeted.
6. India is always reactive in defense matters.In 1962 procuring arms from usa during conflict with china. During kargil, buying Air to ground missiles from israel. Now buying encrypted radios for mig21 and long range air to air missiles. Only time India has planned was ofcourse in 1971.