Paf Is Run By Fighter Mafia Jocks---Kaiser Tufail Is Wrong

[Ray_of_Hope]

PAF could bombs Indian military bases located near Luknow or farther east.

We simply do not have to bomb iaf bases that far.If we can bomb IAF FOB`s,then its job done for PAF.Then IAF will loose any potential to retaliate with massive numbers.

how PAF could bombs Indian military bases located near Luknow or farther east.

How about delhi?Its only 426 km from lahore.JFT`S LOADED WITH raad alcM

 

[SipahSalar]

You have misunderstood CSD, it is not an attempt to beat Pakistan to the border.

I have not misunderstood CSD. It is exactly like i said it is. After 2002 confrontation, India was embarrassed by the very slow mobilization of its forces. India is trying to implement CSD so it will take short time for India to mobilize its forces into action, although it still lacks most of the capacity to do so.

 

[Last Samuri]

Master Khan and others are clearly advocating the option of up to 50 Flanker J11 type of fighters..

This fighter with its vast range and payload would be a great force multipler for much larger nos of falcons & thunders.

If PAF is to buy an interim fighter between now & 2025( when they have option of J31arrives)

I think the J11 would be a better option than J10

For me J10 merely duplicates the F16

JFT is the CAS and local air superiority over pak air space x 100 fighters

leaving the F16 for long range BVR and top end dog fighting x 100 fighters

J11 maritime support and long range strike x 50 fighters.

 

[Wolfhound]

Master Khan and others are clearly advocating the option of up to 50 Flanker J11 type of fighters..

This fighter with its vast range and payload would be a great force multipler for much larger nos of falcons & thunders.

If PAF is to buy an interim fighter between now & 2025( when they have option of J31arrives)

I think the J11 would be a better option than J10

For me J10 merely duplicates the F16

JFT is the CAS and local air superiority over pak air space x 100 fighters

leaving the F16 for long range BVR and top end dog fighting x 100 fighters

J11 maritime support and long range strike x 50 fighters.

this is what we need as of right now

 

[Mitro]

In today's war multirole fighter is the right choice and there many different weapon system like MRL (A-100) and the smart ammunition and smart clusters bomb to destroy the charging tank battalions .

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

In my opinion our overall War Doctrine under which all branches of our defence forces have evolved their war strategies is 'defensive' be it Army, Navy or Air force (as the subject of discussion of this thread).

In my opinion answer is no as both of the branches of our armed forces has opted to fight the war inside the International border of Pakistan so as the PAF which is required to fulfill the supportive role within the borders.

In this case we all know that 'Multirole Fighter' are more relevant than 'Dedicated role Fighters' as they not only defend but pose 'limited' threat as well & the capability of limited threat could be 'enhanced to an extent' with the standoff weapon & this is the strategy of PAF.

Pakistan has had no “Bomber” aircraft after B-57 was retired. These days except the USA, Russia & China, no other country can afford luxury of dedicated “Bomber” force.

You both have the correct points.

1. PAF is a support arm for the PA and PN.
2. Bomber Forces are very costly to operate.
3. PAF is point defense.

You have to look at the battle space of any potential war between, god forbid, Pakistan and India but before take this case study.

Take America as a case study. Canada and Mexico to North and South. Further weaker nations South. America never had the liability to fighting a war so close to it's borders. So when the Soviets tested out their own Nuclear, ThermoNuclear, and other WMDs combined with the advances in their delivery systems it freaked out the Pentagon to it's core. 50% of the US Defense Budget was then allocated to the Airforce in the 1950-1970? And the USAF gave 25% of that 50% to the Strategic Air Command. The USAF was able to make HEAVY investments in it's Long Range WMD capable bomber fleet. That were protected in the Continental US, the Fighter/Interceptor Wings were placed in forward airbases in Europe, Japan and the Naval Air Wings on Aircraft Carriers. By the time war started, it was hoped that the Forward USAF assets, Missile Forces, and AAD would be able to decapitated Soviet Air Defenses, and the USAF Bombers would clean out any Communist units that were left standing.

The USAF was able to spread their myth, that Strategic Bombing runs over Germany and Japan won WW2.

Now to Pakistan-India. All of Pakistan falls under India's Missile reach. India can fire missiles, safely stored in its center, against the furthest reaches of Pakistan. All of Pakistan's Airbases are under this threat, I can't say that Pakistan has an anti missile defense SAM etc.

But what I can say is this.

@MastanKhan, If I were India, why risk the pride and joy of the nation, ie MKI, Rafale, indigenous Navy Ships, Soldiers, when I can fire a couple hundred Missiles at Pakistan's Air Bases and remove the PAF from the equation? Then take out grounded Pakistani Jets on the ground.

In any potential war between the nations, its going to be all out. Both sides want and will weaken the other to such a point that the fan-boys can brag about?

 

[Gufi]

Now to Pakistan-India. All of Pakistan falls under India's Missile reach. India can fire missiles, safely stored in its center, against the furthest reaches of Pakistan. All of Pakistan's Airbases are under this threat, I can't say that Pakistan has an anti missile defense SAM etc.

A nuclear war between South Asian rivals India and Pakistan would trigger a global famine that would immediately kill 2 billion people around the world and spell the “end of human civilization,” according to a study by an anti-nuclear group. The International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War and Physicians for Social Responsibility (PSR) also warned that even a limited nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan would destroy crop yields, damage the atmosphere and throw global food markets into chaos. China, the world’s most populous country, would face a catastrophic food shortage that would lead to enormous social convulsions.
The issue is moot because frankly every action of the Pakistani army from the missile systems it is chasing to the lack of certain weaponry signals a resolve to go nuclear if things escalate. There is a reason Pakistan is said to have the fastest growing nuclear program with most work being done on increasing the delivery systems.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

The issue is moot because frankly every action of the Pakistani army from the missile systems it is chasing to the lack of certain weaponry signals a resolve to go nuclear if things escalate. There is a reason Pakistan is said to have the fastest growing nuclear program with most work being done on increasing the delivery systems.

Nuclear Weapons are 20th Century.

Cyberwarfare is the future. Cyberwarfare is the WMD of the 21th century.

Pakistan has stated it will use Nuclear Weapons if:

1. It's forces are wiped out.
2. Country is taken over.
3. Country is decapitated.

Now the Question is, can India wiping out the P.A.F. be cause for crossing the threshold?

The Air Force is the pride and joy of every nation. Almost everyone can join the Army or Navy, but Air Force? Only the BEST.

Side Note: It takes longer to train a a Special Forces operator than a Pilot.

 

[Gufi]

Pakistan has stated it will use Nuclear Weapons if:

please read more on this...
there are 4 thresholds that Pakistan has mentioned you will find your answer of India using ballistic missiles against our air force there.

And the point I was making is not about cyber warfare but about the lack of bombers not being a mistake by the PAF like it is said but a decision made about the direction we will take if any of our major defensive lines are broken. The issue here was not what our nuclear doctrine is but what is the need for bombers when you have missiles that do the job just as well. And of course the reason we have around a 100 nuclear weapons and the number is growing is because it is a deterrent. while a bomber is something of a luxury for us the plan we have gives us basic air superiority while concentrating our limited funds on a proper plan to vanquish the enemy properly if it comes to that.

 

[MastanKhan]

Nuclear Weapons are 20th Century.

Cyberwarfare is the future. Cyberwarfare is the WMD of the 21th century.

Pakistan has stated it will use Nuclear Weapons if:

1. It's forces are wiped out.
2. Country is taken over.
3. Country is decapitated.

Now the Question is, can India wiping out the P.A.F. be cause for crossing the threshold?

The Air Force is the pride and joy of every nation. Almost everyone can join the Army or Navy, but Air Force? Only the BEST.

Side Note: It takes longer to train a a Special Forces operator than a Pilot.

Senor,

You are incorrect in your assessments and knowledge--. All your 3 points are invalid----that time will be too late to launch---supposedly by that time all will be neutralized.

The best time would be when all the 30 + divisions are within 30 to 50 miles of Pakistan's border---that would be the time to let the tactical nucs go----then target all the big cities all govt offices and building with a mega strike all at one time---a VOLLEY OF 75 TO A 100 NUCS---AND KEEP THE OTHER 100 FOR SECOND STRIKE---.

To prevent the war from happening---paf needs heavy strike and bomber aircraft---and as we have talked in other posts---a bunch a LR SA batteries---.

Basically money s not the issue---it is either you do and live or you die.

 

[Bossman]

Air Commodore Tufail retired from the PAF after a long and illustrious career which included evaluation of key platforms still being used by the PAF. Mastan Khan wanted to be a PAF pilot but was rejected and has spend most of his career selling used cars in California. Please decide who is qualified to talk about military planning and procurement.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Air Commodore Tufail retired from the PAF after a long and illustrious career which included evaluation of key platforms still being used by the PAF. Mastan Khan wanted to be a PAF pilot but was rejected and has spend most of his career selling used cars in California. Please decide who is qualified to talk about military planning and procurement.

Although I have no knowledge of what weapon system is more effective...

But there is a difference between a rejected vs disgruntled individual.

A disgruntled person doesn't post pages upon pages to prove his point. He, rather, is inclined towards being more personal about some issues (in the very beginning).

Being rejected for something - So what? Didn't you ever get rejected in many things? Everyone does! We take our chances and move on.

Only people that are rejected are the people that try. People that try put their hearts in. It makes them more special!

Saying what he does for a living: Actually...He is working hard. Not taking commissions for the weapons procurement, not selling his country and so on!

“Failure isn’t fatal, but failure to change might be” – John Wooden
You can easily comprehend who is who according to this quote. The first one being MK. The second, if proven wrong in his assessment, A/C Tufail, will make a fatal mistake. The country will perhaps suffer due to this!

 

[anonymus]

A nuclear war between South Asian rivals India and Pakistan would trigger a global famine that would immediately kill 2 billion people around the world and spell the “end of human civilization,” according to a study by an anti-nuclear group. The International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War and Physicians for Social Responsibility (PSR) also warned that even a limited nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan would destroy crop yields, damage the atmosphere and throw global food markets into chaos. China, the world’s most populous country, would face a catastrophic food shortage that would lead to enormous social convulsions.
The issue is moot because frankly every action of the Pakistani army from the missile systems it is chasing to the lack of certain weaponry signals a resolve to go nuclear if things escalate. There is a reason Pakistan is said to have the fastest growing nuclear program with most work being done on increasing the delivery systems.

@MastanKhan, If I were India, why risk the pride and joy of the nation, ie MKI, Rafale, indigenous Navy Ships, Soldiers, when I can fire a couple hundred Missiles at Pakistan's Air Bases and remove the PAF from the equation? Then take out grounded Pakistani Jets on the ground.

In any potential war between the nations, its going to be all out. Both sides want and will weaken the other to such a point that the fan-boys can brag about?

India need not risk firing ballistic missile to disable Pakistani runways. Most of Pakistani Airbase are within MBRL, Prahaar and/or Brahmos range, either from land or from sea. Only few like Quetta are far away, both from land and Sea.


I don't think India would fire IRBM's against Pakistan for anything other than nuclear strike.

 

[AUz]

J-11Bs in PAF ranks with upgraded capabilities sounds sweet!

PAF needs to become a strategic force with capacity to project power atleast 4,000km to 6,000km away from homeland..

 

[Pichkari]

Wasn't the whole point of going nuclear without the "no first use policy" was to not get into arms race with india??