PAF has requested for an increase of 1.5 billion dollar in the budget.

[Fawadqasim1]

1.5 billion is just the increase not the total amount. Plus that too for just 1 year. China has the capacity to make 20 j-31s per year hence 40 in one budget year won't be the case.

J31 after 2020 j16 is the only viable option available.

 

[imadul]

No way

Wayyyyy

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

J31 after 2020 j16 is the only viable option available.

Only if Russia has no problem. India can twist Russia's arm. Regarding j-16.

BTW J-16s were designed to be bombers and electronic countermeasures / jamming aircraft not interceptors like su-35.

 

[volatile]

sir what are your opinion on this..if we lets say talk about j10b/c and j11d also at the same time in paf...j10b can replace the roles of mirage 5 on borders as well as many j10s can be station in baloch to guard gwadar and j11d at karachi to counter naval threats and also along indian border??? any possibility?

Brother my answer is little different in approach as strategist as well as history student i have different point of view on procurements as well as its role . e.g IAF has at the moment multiple platforms it provides diversity but if you see the amount of vendors as well as countries its really amazing as well as astonishing to see how these birds are flying or will fly in an event all out war .
If i say some thing about these platforms it will be mere speculations but in order to make it more tangible following variables I will be considering before making any buy

J10 B/C J11D
Availability rate
Amount per sortie
Foreign dependence
Adversary facing
Numbers we can afford
TOT (tech transfer)

On paper what you suggest is good but IAF has similar flankers but in large amount so there is no point in going for same as we cant match one on one ,J10 B/C can be good option till J31 replaces F16s as i always believe IAF problem has out of the box solution ,J10B/C with AESA/IRST /HOBS and large numbers is as deadly as any thing IAF has ,Just my thought and i hope this can bring something new to you or to the people

 

[WarFariX]

Brother my answer is little different in approach as strategist as well as history student i have different point of view on procurements as well as its role . e.g IAF has at the moment multiple platforms it provides diversity but if you see the amount of vendors as well as countries its really amazing as well as astonishing to see how these birds are flying or will fly in an event all out war .
If i say some thing about these platforms it will be mere speculations but in order to make it more tangible following variables I will be considering before making any buy

J10 B/C J11D
Availability rate
Amount per sortie
Foreign dependence
Adversary facing
Numbers we can afford
TOT (tech transfer)

On paper what you suggest is good but IAF has similar flankers but in large amount so there is no point in going for same as we cant match one on one ,J10 B/C can be good option till J31 replaces F16s as i always believe IAF problem has out of the box solution ,J10B/C with AESA/IRST /HOBS and large numbers is as deadly as any thing IAF has ,Just my thought and i hope this can bring something new to you or to the people

Pardon me sir , ur last para suggests that u consider j-11d/su-35 to be (avionics aside) one on one however thats not the case. The fact that i am confident in thunders beating up MKIs in BVR is that MKI (SU-30) has tooooo huge RCS of 20m^2 ..thunder can detect it at 120km and track at 90 so its too vulnerable..however J11D and SU35 r in different league..their inlets r modified to reduce RCS by several times to a value of 1-3m^2 ...thats a major plus point so getting su35 or j11d without matching numbers will truely benefit us believe me...we will have very upper hand in detection and tracking

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Only if Russia has no problem. India can twist Russia's arm. Regarding j-16.

BTW J-16s were designed to be bombers and electronic countermeasures / jamming aircraft not interceptors like su-35.

Not in case of j16 both china and pakistan can be quite persuasive in this regard and j16 is a true multi role fighter

 

[imadul]

if there is space in budget:
PAF needs planes which can give qualitative edge in the region, so nothing better than
24 Super Flankers SU-35
A state of the art RD-93 Rebuilt and development workshop
8 more Mil Mi-35M and 12 Mil Mi-28NE for Army Aviation.
A mix of Gunships is so badly required for COIN in afg and against indian 460 T-90 SMs.

 

[volatile]

Pardon me sir , ur last para suggests that u consider j-11d/su-35 to be (avionics aside) one on one however thats not the case. The fact that i am confident in thunders beating up MKIs in BVR is that MKI (SU-30) has tooooo huge RCS of 20m^2 ..thunder can detect it at 120km and track at 90 so its too vulnerable..however J11D and SU35 r in different league..their inlets r modified to reduce RCS by several times to a value of 1-3m^2 ...thats a major plus point so getting su35 or j11d without matching numbers will truely benefit us believe me...we will have very upper hand in detection and tracking

Brother I dont mean to say that any of these planes are bad or good but if you see my criteria of choosing a platform is based on realism factors like i mentioned above

Availability rate
Amount per sortie
Foreign dependence
Adversary facing
Numbers we can afford
TOT (tech transfer)

If any of these planes lies or score good in these will be my pick .I hope it clarifies my point of view

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Not in case of j16 both china and pakistan can be quite persuasive in this regard and j16 is a true multi role fighter

If you ask my opnion. Su-35 should be considered but not j-16 as it's designed with something else in the mind.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Remember china is testing it's vlraams with j16s not j11ds or j10b/cs

If you ask my opnion. Su-35 should be considered but not j-16 as it's designed with something else in the mind.

At the cost of repetition Russia will never and I repeat never sell su35 to Pakistan period.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Remember china is testing it's vlraams with j16s not j11ds or j10b/cs


At the cost of repetition Russia will never and I repeat never sell su35 to Pakistan period.

Hmm but testing 400 km+ missiles on j-16 doesn't mean they can't be used in j-10 j-11 jf-17.

 

[danger007]

More jf-17s can't cost that much, plus already 300 jf 17 thunders are more than enough. 250 was original order with 50 as backup, hence 300 are already allocated for. Hence it's not for jf-17.

J-10b was scrapped by senior PAF officials as it didn't bring that much a change from f-16s , PAF is looking to invest in something better than f-16s for medium category fighters, hence j-10b for PAF is out of question unless we need them immediately for stop gap purposes which is highly unlikely.

Chinese Flanders are a no no. Flankers of chinese origin have never been on export market or export exhibitions. Hence very less chance of them being sold to pakistan. Although Chinese officials have said in recent past, even though many weapons are not for export and are secret from the outside countries. There is one brotherly country Pakistan, which has and can have access to weapon systems in chinese inventory which are not cleared for export. China can transfer units already in use in armed forces to the only brotherly country provided there is urgency. But realistically this 1.5 billion USD doesn't seem to be for chinese Flankers either, plus most likely pakistan will not opt for chinese flankers, multiple reasons for it.

J-31 option is very very likely as 1.5 USD billion is exactly the amount that would be needed for 40+ stealth aircraft plus it's support , training and startup ammunition.
If the platform proves itself, this bird might be the second jointly produced fighter among Pakistan and china.

Russian SU-35 or mig-35 are highly unlikely as India gets red faces if pakistan gets these assets , which Russia cannot afford. But it's entirely up to russia, if they can than PAF would easily go for SU-35 along with j-31.

Joint venture with Turkey and BAE systems in TFX is also very unlikely at this stage. As it's very early. But 1.5 billion would be enough to get stakes in Turkish TFX programme.

2nd hand F-16s from USA or third parties like Europe or middle East? Please no! Even though we were in love with f-16 May be even now are. That's not a smart platform to invest 1.5 billion dollars in. We should be moving away from sanction prone assets.
If we have learnt anything from our history.

S-400 triumph missile defence system? May be if, PAF controls and procures missile defence systems. 1.5 billion USD per year would be good enough save in 3 years we could see s-400 in pakistan. As it's a defensive weapon and Russia has said it has no problem selling it to, pakistan , Turkey or Indonesia.

S 400-
No chance . .. We already inked deal with Russia... Though it's defence platform by the name.

 

[Readerdefence]

You think J-10B old J-10B is created to test radar and avionics system for J-20, there are one little problems to get Chinese Flankers is that the "DESIGN IS RUSSIAN"China can't export its to third party without Russian permissions

For that permission if they need to take any
They have invested and bought su35 from Russia
So hopefully can't is not there anymore for

 

[Ultima Thule]

JF-17 is capable of doing what j-10b can do so no need for new aircraft unless its 5th gen

No bro you can't compare JF-17 to J-10B with payload, avionics, AESA, IRST and better range

PAF dropped the J10 option long ago...we already hv Vipers and JFT...accquring some same level/role aircraft i.e J10 doesnt make any sense..
P.S PAF Vipers already took down J10s in friendly missions so no way we are getting j10s

I am not talking about J-10A but J-10B with AESA, IRST, better range and more advanced avionics

maybe they are planning to buy j 16 to close the gap between PAF and IAF

I think J-10C could be a very good replacement for ROSE Mirages. If it gets Cfts it would enhance its strike range and free up more stations for weapons.
But I suspect the current buy may be for maritime defense/strike so J11D/J16 could also b possible.
@MarvellousThunder@PDC

No bro J-10C is still in the development phase and not to forget J-10C will induct in PLAAF in numbers than China will Export it to Pakistan and as for J-11D/J-16 they can't export it without Russian permission because it is based on Su-27 which is Russian intellectual property

 

[danger007]

Pardon me sir , ur last para suggests that u consider j-11d/su-35 to be (avionics aside) one on one however thats not the case. The fact that i am confident in thunders beating up MKIs in BVR is that MKI (SU-30) has tooooo huge RCS of 20m^2 ..thunder can detect it at 120km and track at 90 so its too vulnerable..however J11D and SU35 r in different league..their inlets r modified to reduce RCS by several times to a value of 1-3m^2 ...thats a major plus point so getting su35 or j11d without matching numbers will truely benefit us believe me...we will have very upper hand in detection and tracking

What an great analysis... You just take out entire mki fleet just like that in pdf... At least try to Argue with sense.