PAF F16-Blk70 possibly coming - TO BE CONFIRMED

[Riz]

Why dont you tell them the answer PAF gave to the Americans.

Which one bro??

 

[Khafee]

Which one bro??

On the footage of the downing of the Su-30

Thing is not that what is right or what is not.
Thing is, what should be disclosed on a public forums and what should not.
You initially leaked the news of 18-24 Blk72 and then of 36 Su35 on public forums, though as per AHQ these topics are not meant to be shared in social media.

So you are basically agreeing with what I stated, but diverting attention. Oh ok!

 

[Riz]

We are prepaid... New badge of PaF with Kashmir map

 

[CHI RULES]

View attachment 577608 View attachment 577608
We are prepaid... New badge of PaF with Kashmir map

Instead of badges they should take some practical steps to pressurize India then these badges shall have some worth.

Many people are talking about block 70 meanwhile the existing F16 users are going for V upgrade. Can someone shed light on specs of block 70 along with per unit cost, and also the V upgrade along with per Jet cost.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Instead of badges they should take some practical steps to pressurize India then these badges shall have some worth.

What type of step do you refer for example @CHI RULES

 

[CHI RULES]

What type of step do you refer for example @CHI RULES

I shall be called a key board warrior but many experts are of the view like me that a limited war within Kashmir either by inserting SSG personnel with help of Kashmiri Mujahdeen or open attacks on Indian border posts should have been launched also with limited A to A skirmishes. Even a small show of power shall bring world powers/ so called brotherly Islamic countries on their knees as they will not prefer to see a open war resulting in destruction of Indian economic centers which have billions of USD investment by them.

With some sacrifices not only issue shall be resolved but BJP/RSS hidden agenda of cleaning subcontinent from Muslims first and later on other minorities shall sleep for ever.

 

[MIRauf]

If President Trumps orders the release of CSF $s, more then likely the funds will be put in an escrow account with stipulation that most if not all the amount only be spent on US Products.

If such is the stipulation that it be best to go for F-16 even Block-70 without AESA along with more AH-1. Good news if true is that Kushner Lobby is working for the deal, he can make things happen when push comes to shove.

This will also make it tough to spend these funds on Education / R&D in Pakistan as someone wrote in one of the posts. President Trump is shrewd businessman so don't be surprised if he does something like this. i.e US soybean for F-16 $ refund by President Clinton, but this be much better deal then that.

Now this is my hunch based on news clippings etc.

 

[Silicon0000]

1)PAF will be getting 18~24 NEW Blk70 or 72's for now.

2)The current fleet will be upgraded to "V" specs. All of them.
Depending on the condition of the air-frame, some or all, will go through SLEP to 12k hrs.

This Breaking News, is a gift for all those people who stood by me, when I was unfairly banned. Thank You!

170 pages, lots of time and discussion...... and ........ Nothing ......... @Khafee @Khafee
I hope your source is not "Jamati et al" otherwise the term "Bongian" applies on both side.

 

[FuturePAF]

I heard their are almost 1,000 Surplus US F16, we just need 40-50 Surplus crafts with
Block C/D upgrade

Many European countries also selling F16 A/B

F16 Block C/D has served us well so far why break the bank ?
10 Billion Coalition Support funds

• 2 Billion to acquire 45 Block C/D surplus crafts from USA , Used crafts

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• 8 Billion Transferred to Army / Navy / Air-force
• APC purchase , Corvette Purchase , Transport craft purchase, SAM batteries

Best to get 3-4 dozen air frames now using CSF funds (if not with CSF funds then don't do it and just go for the J-10CE with AESA), and if they pan out in terms of a future upgrade great, but if they don't then no loss of Pakistani funds.

If Pakistan is ask for SAM for ships from US without VLS capacity then ESSM is good option then SA SAM but having said that SA SAM can fill role of RIM-116 if I m not wrong.

Especially to upgrade the F-22P SAM capacity from 8 FM-90 of 15 km range to 32 ESSM with a range out to 50 km; Couple that with an upgrade of the radar to a Smart S Mk. 2. The real issue remains political with western upgrades on Chinese vessels, when the Chinese are more than capable of manufacturing similar missiles, and giving over the AAW capability for the ship to Americans could be risky if relations sour again.

I remember those days quite well.

People have short memories.

The political power dynamics as well as hardware options for the PAF have changed in the world since that time, however.

Chinese improvements have been a miracle for Pakistan.

I don’t even wanna think about a scenario where FC-1/JF-17 failed or the Russians didn’t release the RD-93 in that era.

Fortunately if nothing else, China provides a better option in 2019 than 2004.

Still the -V upgrade path obviously provides most bang for the buck.

But I am extremely weary of US motivations to aid Pakistan’s military capabilities vis a vis Pakistan/India.

Especially in light of conspiracy theory-ish Israeli plans.

Before choosing a type if any, I hope Pakistani leadership keeps the long term political implications in mind.

(Including potential scenarios of vulnerability due to external reliance) i.e. sanctions. i.e. a vast majority of a PAF fleet degraded if the US chooses.

Hence the PAF should commit to getting One Squadron of the J-10CE TODAY. It will show the US (and PAF's own fence sitting officers) the PAF is deadly serious. Once the PAF gets the ball rolling on inducting a new type it will make it a lot easier for the PAF to shift away from the F-16 and towards the J-10CE if the US doesn't supply needs spares or upgrades or weapons in the future. With out proper support and an upgrade, in a few years the F-16 Block 52 will be third string to the J-10CE and the JF-17 Block III.

@$60 million; a squadron of 18 Fighters would be give or take $1 Billion. (there will be hundreds of millions more spend to induct a new type) Once the PAF is busy training on the J-10CE, the US will visibly see the PAF slipping out of their hands, the best pilots and mostly likely to be promoted to highest ranks will go to the J-10 Squadron.

Do this across the other two branches, with Attack helicopters for the Army and C4ISR equipment or ships for the Navy, and the cadres of future high ranking officers will no longer be going to the the US.

This is the consequence of the US not supporting the Pakistani Military with modern equipment. BTW the saga of the F-16 Radars is not new, it was the same in the 80s, with the US initially refusing to sell the look down shoot down radars, until they realized PAF would only accept the jets with the radars or not at all. It was very well demonstrated in the movie; Charlie Wilson's war.

0:32-0:37

3:50-4:22

BTW the SABR Radar; the one in the Block 70/72 is itself not as good as the AN/APG-80 on the Block 60, The AN/APG-80 is the same radar offered to the Indians for the F-16IN. So if the US is serious about a strategic relation with Pakistan, it needs to be get real and at the very least AESA radar it has already approved to so many nations. Or sell Used F-16 C/Ds and let Pakistan buy Turkish F-16 AESA radars, and protect the SABR's "secret sauce".

To paraphrase the clip above; IF this was a real war, the US would take into account Pakistan's need and find a middle ground approach.

If President Trumps orders the release of CSF $s, more then likely the funds will be put in an escrow account with stipulation that most if not all the amount only be spent on US Products.

If such is the stipulation that it be best to go for F-16 even Block-70 without AESA along with more AH-1. Good news if true is that Kushner Lobby is working for the deal, he can make things happen when push comes to shove.

This will also make it tough to spend these funds on Education / R&D in Pakistan as someone wrote in one of the posts. President Trump is shrewd businessman so don't be surprised if he does something like this. i.e US soybean for F-16 $ refund by President Clinton, but this be much better deal then that.

Now this is my hunch based on news clippings etc.

New F-16s are not it unless they are fully equipped (including AESA) birds, otherwise CSF funds should just go to buying 50-60 if not more F-16 C/D with the least hours on their air frames and Thousands of Aim-120C7 and Aim-9X. This way we fill some of the numbers gap we have at the least cost; and speed up the retirement of the oldest F-7s and Mirages.

We can spend our own money on AESA birds like the J-10CE.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Yup, the same package which was once offered few years back during Sohail Aman times.
But there is difference in 'finalizing a deal' and 'initiation of negotiations'.
Yes Blk70/72 were negotiated, but no progress was made as Americans were willing not to offer any tech, and that too with military funds support, which could 'disturb' the regional power balance.

Definitely, if Su35 is on card then no more F16s or any other relevant equipment for Pakistan. Being an operative of sufficient size of American hardware, Pakistan cannot afford sanctions under the regulations of CAATSA.
PAF is itself split into two group of thoughts, one with more pro Western approach demanding more 'surplus' airframes instead of any Asian counterpart, and other one is inclined towards Asian market. And each group is attempting to generate pressure, rumors of Blk70 and Su35 are part of it.

I think Pakistan is taking a wait-and-see approach towards CAATSA, both in terms with how it is applied against Turkey and India, if at all, and then making its own choices. If there are no significant sanctions against either country, then it opens to door for us to purchase Su-35s from Russia, esp if Block 70s are a no-go.

 

[Zarvan]

Why dont you tell them the answer PAF gave to the Americans.

I don't know what answer they gave but what I know is USA and Lock Head Martin wants Pakistan to release proof

 

[baqai]

I don't know what answer they gave but what I know is USA and Lock Head Martin wants Pakistan to release proof

Hopefully the answer is coming tomorrow in the ptv program

 

[Ark_Angel]

So, it's unclear. The bare minimum is 3 ASW corvettes (similar to those with the Turkish Navy) and 1 VLS-equipped Jinnah-class frigate. However, based on the link I shared above, it now seems all 4 will be Jinnah-class frigates (?).

All 4 are VLS LY-80 equipped. MILGEM has been Re designated as Jinnah Class In PN. If US approval for PDMS isn’t approved you’ll be seeing Korkut-N being placed as instead. Moreover the SSM on the Jinnah Class vessels will be its most powerful element.

I assume you are asking on the ship side. Again same issue putting eggs into one basket. Why not go and get Umkonto.

Umkonto was seriously considered Adm Zaka was given a detailed briefing in SA on the system as well whilst the MILGEM program systems were being finalized. Umkonto couldn’t make it to the final cut due to :
1. The system was not operational with any allied navy/military, No prior experience with SA w.r.t military Eqt, Due to cost prohibition PN was apprehensive about the riskier route of inducting a unique system from a new vendor.
2. Time. PN has already faced a certain time delay in certain projects by opting for new,unique systems. Prior experience and urgent requirements compelled PN to go for RIM-116 and a back up plan provided by Turks of Korkut-N. Chinese FL-3000N system was also considered but dropped due to certain issues with the system during trials.

 

[kursed]

I highly doubt that J10C, off the shelf, are high on PAF radar, right now. Since integration with local data network will be an issue. It’ll introduce a third type to the system. And Pak isn’t interested in buying stand alone shooters anymore.

 

[Code_Geass]

how willing will Russia be to let us have J-16?