PAF and the JXX Fifth Gen Fighter

[SBD-3]

stealth is only good for hit and run tactics, but if u were to engage in a close dogfight than stealth is no good. qasibr is right, mig 21 of f7 with decent avionics can effectively engage f22 because they have high maneuverability. US airforce dont pay that much attention to maneuverability anyhow, they believe if they can shoot something from a mile away, whats the point of maneuverability

.....thanks for enlightening us....

 

[rockstarIN]

stealth is only good for hit and run tactics, but if u were to engage in a close dogfight than stealth is no good. qasibr is right, mig 21 of f7 with decent avionics can effectively engage f22 because they have high maneuverability. US airforce dont pay that much attention to maneuverability anyhow, they believe if they can shoot something from a mile away, whats the point of maneuverability

There hardly be any dog fights, I'm not saying others do not have a chance but very less.

Also thru ISRT, you can track up to 90 kms...whether it is a stealth or not.

 

[S10]

First look of J-XX at CAC testing facility. It became apparent that it conducted runway tests on December. 22 by both picture and eyewitness accounts. Based on this, I am predicting test flight in early 2011.

Image modified to show a better outline of the plane

 

[S10]

stealth is only good for hit and run tactics, but if u were to engage in a close dogfight than stealth is no good. qasibr is right, mig 21 of f7 with decent avionics can effectively engage f22 because they have high maneuverability. US airforce dont pay that much attention to maneuverability anyhow, they believe if they can shoot something from a mile away, whats the point of maneuverability

No, just no.

I highlighted the wrong assumptions in your post. Basically, it's all wrong.

 

[SBD-3]

First look of J-XX at CAC testing facility. It became apparent that it conducted runway tests on December. 22 by both picture and eyewitness accounts. Based on this, I am predicting test flight in early 2011.

Image modified to show a better outline of the plane

the tails are strange....looks like they are not canted ones.....and also by the size, it does not look like a 5th gen rather a bomber

 

[S10]

the tails are strange....looks like they are not canted ones.....and also by the size, it does not look like a 5th gen rather a bomber

Can't tell much by the resolution of the pics at this point. Somebody will have to get closer to get better photos. As for the size, I fully expect the plane to be quite large, up to 20 meters.

 

[SQ8]

Why does it look like a Mig-31 from the clint eastwood movie firefox??

That is an uncanny resemblance in the images there.

 

[Manticore]

http://dc249.*******.com/img/dNQJmVqS/0.5390710009895979/jxx.jpg

 

[gambit]

True.. My point was that non-stealth aircraft with modern gen avionics still have a place.

Of course. Never said that the current generation is useless. But the side that dominate the EM spectrum increases its odds of control of the air arena over any territory. An ECM shield is like a physical shield. I may not be able to identify the wielder or how many are there behind that shield, but at the very least I am alerted of a potential threat. Being low radar observable (or reflective), aka 'stealth', is akin to a well camo-ed soldier. Not only is his personal outline disguised under layers of coverings, but his outer appearance blends with the immediate environment, he does not cough, sneeze, or even yawn lest his breath and movements give him away, and he covered himself with the substances that emit the same odors of the forest. As the human mind reject what is evident and common for all to see and seek out anomalies, the radar's electronic mind is programmed with the same rejection threshold -- clutter. The F-117 class aircrafts are designed to be within that EM clutter rejection threshold.

 

[gambit]

stealth is only good for hit and run tactics, but if u were to engage in a close dogfight than stealth is no good. qasibr is right, mig 21 of f7 with decent avionics can effectively engage f22 because they have high maneuverability. US airforce dont pay that much attention to maneuverability anyhow, they believe if they can shoot something from a mile away, whats the point of maneuverability

You are so wrong in everything above...

Raptor debuts at Red Flag, dominates skies

Pilots from the 65th and 64th AS, including exchange pilots from the Royal Australian Air Force and Royal Air Force, of Australia and England respectfully, expressed their frustration related to flying against the stealthy F-22.

"The thing denies your ability to put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it through the canopy," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, F-15 exchange pilot in the 65th AS. "It's the most frustrated I've ever been."

When an F-22 is airborne without its radar enhancer, the effect upon an adversary's seeking radar is evident. We have a former F-15 pilot member of this forum who taught everyone this rule of air combat: Lose sight. Lose fight.

But how can you win when you cannot even 'see' him even when you do see him?

 

[Qasibr]

@hasnain0099 The US fielded F-22s in that exercise. There was alot of outcry in the Indian media when this video of a USAF officer surfaced, where the bloke candidly talked about the performance of Indian SU-30s and MiG-21s. He talked about how the F-22 wouldn't detect the MiG because the MiG was small and had an Israeli jammer, and only found out when it was being fired upon.

The video was widely discussed over here, I'm surprised you don't know about it. That's where I "added 7" and was talking about the F-22.

 

[jagjitnatt]

@hasnain0099 The US fielded F-22s in that exercise. There was alot of outcry in the Indian media when this video of a USAF officer surfaced, where the bloke candidly talked about the performance of Indian SU-30s and MiG-21s. He talked about how the F-22 wouldn't detect the MiG because the MiG was small and had an Israeli jammer, and only found out when it was being fired upon.

The video was widely discussed over here, I'm surprised you don't know about it. That's where I "added 7" and was talking about the F-22.

That was an F15 and not an F22

 

[Martian2]

Raptor debuts at Red Flag, dominates skies

Pilots from the 65th and 64th AS, including exchange pilots from the Royal Australian Air Force and Royal Air Force, of Australia and England respectfully, expressed their frustration related to flying against the stealthy F-22.

"The thing denies your ability to put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it through the canopy," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, F-15 exchange pilot in the 65th AS. "It's the most frustrated I've ever been."

When an F-22 is airborne without its radar enhancer, the effect upon an adversary's seeking radar is evident. We have a former F-15 pilot member of this forum who taught everyone this rule of air combat: Lose sight. Lose fight.

But how can you win when you cannot even 'see' him even when you do see him?

This doesn't sound right. The F-22 is within eyesight through the canopy of the F-15 pilot. Yet, RAAF Squadron Leader Chappell is too dumb to maneuver his plane behind the F-22 and fire a heat-seeking missile? His claim and your analysis both sound like propaganda that we hear from a defense contractor.

When the F-22 is within eyeball-range, it has a large engine heat-signature. It is vulnerable from behind. A competent pilot would maneuver his plane behind the F-22 and try to win Red Flag.

Here is the heat signature of a F-22 at eyeball-range. Do you see that bright orange flame? An AIM-9 Sidewinder would score a quick kill.

 

[gambit]

This doesn't sound right. The F-22 is within eyesight through the canopy of the F-15 pilot. Yet, RAAF Squadron Leader Chappell is too dumb to maneuver his plane behind the F-22 and fire a heat-seeking missile? His claim and your analysis both sound like propaganda that we hear from a defense contractor.

When the F-22 is within eyeball-range, it has a large engine heat-signature. It is vulnerable from behind. A competent pilot would maneuver his plane behind the F-22 and try to win Red Flag.

Unbelievable...But we have to give the Chinese boys here kudos for the balls to boast about Chinese high IQs despite the above 'argument' that proved they learned nothing here.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/1297385-post26.html

Let us see if you can exercise some critical thinking skills from reading a former F-15 pilot's experience at training and war games...Then see how ridiculous your argument above really is...

 

[jagjitnatt]

This doesn't sound right. The F-22 is within eyesight through the canopy of the F-15 pilot. Yet, RAAF Squadron Leader Chappell is too dumb to maneuver his plane behind the F-22 and fire a heat-seeking missile? His claim and your analysis both sound like propaganda that we hear from a defense contractor.

You're right. The F22 is good, but it just isn't as good as people hyped it up to be. F-22 is more of a propaganda than a fighting machine. It has never been used anywhere outside the US, and it hasn't engaged any fighter aircraft outside US yet.

US seems to glorify it beyond sanity, and yet shut down the program. The F-22 is not invincible, and can be shot down. According to me 2 Su30s should be enough to take it down.

90% claims regarding F-22's performance are propaganda. Nothing else.