PAF and the JXX Fifth Gen Fighter

[Rafi]

My friend when it comes to the security and safety of the Pakistani people and state, we have surprised our enemies many times.

Suffice to say the Pakistani Defence Forces and the Security Establishment is well aware of the developments in the region. And any gap in the nations defence will be filled, of that you can be certain.

Acta Non Verba

 

[IamINDIA]

i think pakistans plan is to aquire 5th gen versions of jf-17 once the deliveries of all 4 to 4.5gen jf-17s are done ........

and i think most pakistanis would agree with me on this...

 

[Rafi]

i think pakistans plan is to aquire 5th gen versions of jf-17 once the deliveries of all 4 to 4.5gen jf-17s are done ........

and i think most pakistanis would agree with me on this...

Yes - but other options will also be looked upon - when the time comes, nice positive post by you my friend

 

[houshanghai]

China-Pak in MoU to Develop Variant on JF-17 Thunder

"The two (countries) have also reportedly signed a memorandum of understanding to develop a stealth variant of the JF-17 Thunder," it said.

news.outlookindia.com | China-Pak in MoU to Develop Variant on JF-17 Thunder

defence.pk thread

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...ou-develop-stealth-variant-jf-17-thunder.html

j20 is too expensive,PLAAF wont buy it too much .I guess PAF'S stealth aircraft maybe own version （a single ws-15 engine light JXX Variant ) in future.

 

[Ammyy]

China-Pak in MoU to Develop Variant on JF-17 Thunder

"The two (countries) have also reportedly signed a memorandum of understanding to develop a stealth variant of the JF-17 Thunder," it said.

news.outlookindia.com | China-Pak in MoU to Develop Variant on JF-17 Thunder

Indian news source for Pakistani MoU ????

 

[doctor_who]

OH so paksitan will have a stealth jf-17, thats great with their tight budget if they can acheive something like this - it will increase the number of toys in their arsenal ,

also india wont be too worried either.

but i dont see paksitan getting some fifth gen fighter for long time. reason being they dont need one currently. and none is on offer too.
china wont supply their top of the line equipment. because they want to keep ambiguity around their weapon and keep other guessing for what ever reason.
also their budget wont allow it.

 

[SBD-3]

China-Pak in MoU to Develop Variant on JF-17 Thunder

"The two (countries) have also reportedly signed a memorandum of understanding to develop a stealth variant of the JF-17 Thunder," it said.

news.outlookindia.com | China-Pak in MoU to Develop Variant on JF-17 Thunder

defence.pk thread

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...ou-develop-stealth-variant-jf-17-thunder.html

we had a lot of discussion on this, but the sources informed us that this plan was dropped......

 

[Qasibr]

Making the JFT a stealth aircraft would require a complete re-design, it would be easier to start off from scratch.

I think that Pakistan is looking to get latest-gen jamming technology, the Indians installed Israeli jammers on their Vietnam era(40 year old) MiG-21s, and even the F-22 couldn't detect it quiet easily. The Chinese have a history with Israeli technology, and personally I think this sounds alot more plausible. Unlike the Indian MiG-21, the JFT is a modern jet with a latest-gen warfare suite and everything, and if the JFT managed to get near targets undetected, they might not be so lucky. There've been various articles from western sources recently that talk about how the SD-10A platform seems much more complex and advanced than believed previously, especially in the light of the Chinese openly discussing -10A details with western journalists.

It also deserves a mention, that in 2008 when Indian SU-30s came crossed the border near Lahore and in the Kashmir sector, the Pakistani army chief presented an image of the SU-30 from the cockpit of a Pakistani F-16, with the -30 locked on. I remember the caption was, that the bloke threatened that the next time this happened, the situation wouldn't just climax at lock-ons and retreats.

That would suggest that Pakistan has some form of jamming equipment installed on the -16s, because the -30 has missiles of greater range, and yet the -16 got close enough to lock on with sidewinders.

 

[Qasibr]

Oh and @Storm Force, I do agree with you - the wargames the US has had, clearly show a very very lopsided win-loose ratio. The only time an F-16 scored a win was when it'd get blown to pieces right after firing off at the -22. My point was, that the benefit of stealth can be had with 4.5th gen too.

The Eurofighter consortium's been disputing that their aircraft is "4.5th gen" compared to "5th gen" F-35, because according to them, this implies that their aircraft wouldn't be able to compete with the -35. They clearly feel that it could. Alot of literature coming out of Australia also suggests that they were very suspicious of the practical benefits the F-35 offered, even their members of parliament raised questions about it. I'm not disputing that 5th gen aircraft, the F-22 specifically, haven't had alot of success in wargame scenarios and training exercises. My point was, that modern jammers in relatively smaller aircraft(that naturally have a smaller cross-section) enables even outdated equipment like the MiG-21 to get close to the F friggin' -22 undetected, the only problem there was that the MiG-21 doesn't have modern gen warfare equipment to effectively engage it.

The current generation of radar and avionics technology that gets installed in 5th gen aircraft, is equivilant to the level of technology 4.5th gen aircraft are being fitted with these days. There's nothing in 4.5th gen aircraft, that prevent them from being equipped with AESA radars, latest gen jammers and EW warfare suites, missiles and everything. My thought was that in the short run, 4.5th gen aircraft equipped with modern gen equipment could "cut the bread" as it were. In a defensive environment, this, paired with modern SAM systems seems to be the policy the PAF is pursuing.

In the long run, even Pakistan would get 5th gen aircraft. The last Airforce Chief even said something to the effect, that we'd be adding 4.5th gen and 5th gen aircraft within the next decade. So, sure there's a limit to how much modern gen stuff you can incorporate into older aircraft(and whether it's worth it, upgrading old aircraft with limited flight hours left in 'em), alot of countries are developing 4.5th gen technology, and it makes sense. The Eurofighter's supposed to go through a modernization programme, the stuff that comes out of that would be flown by leading European countries for decades to come.

 

[gambit]

Oh and @Storm Force, I do agree with you - the wargames the US has had, clearly show a very very lopsided win-loose ratio. The only time an F-16 scored a win was when it'd get blown to pieces right after firing off at the -22. My point was, that the benefit of stealth can be had with 4.5th gen too.

The Eurofighter consortium's been disputing that their aircraft is "4.5th gen" compared to "5th gen" F-35, because according to them, this implies that their aircraft wouldn't be able to compete with the -35. They clearly feel that it could. Alot of literature coming out of Australia also suggests that they were very suspicious of the practical benefits the F-35 offered, even their members of parliament raised questions about it. I'm not disputing that 5th gen aircraft, the F-22 specifically, haven't had alot of success in wargame scenarios and training exercises. My point was, that modern jammers in relatively smaller aircraft(that naturally have a smaller cross-section) enables even outdated equipment like the MiG-21 to get close to the F friggin' -22 undetected, the only problem there was that the MiG-21 doesn't have modern gen warfare equipment to effectively engage it.

The current generation of radar and avionics technology that gets installed in 5th gen aircraft, is equivilant to the level of technology 4.5th gen aircraft are being fitted with these days. There's nothing in 4.5th gen aircraft, that prevent them from being equipped with AESA radars, latest gen jammers and EW warfare suites, missiles and everything. My thought was that in the short run, 4.5th gen aircraft equipped with modern gen equipment could "cut the bread" as it were. In a defensive environment, this, paired with modern SAM systems seems to be the policy the PAF is pursuing.

In the long run, even Pakistan would get 5th gen aircraft. The last Airforce Chief even said something to the effect, that we'd be adding 4.5th gen and 5th gen aircraft within the next decade. So, sure there's a limit to how much modern gen stuff you can incorporate into older aircraft(and whether it's worth it, upgrading old aircraft with limited flight hours left in 'em), alot of countries are developing 4.5th gen technology, and it makes sense. The Eurofighter's supposed to go through a modernization programme, the stuff that comes out of that would be flown by leading European countries for decades to come.

No...ECM is NOT the same as being low radar observable. ECM is active. Being low radar observable is passive.

 

[Qasibr]

True.. My point was that non-stealth aircraft with modern gen avionics still have a place.

 

[SBD-3]

True.. My point was that non-stealth aircraft with modern gen avionics still have a place.

a correction, in cope India USAF was using F-15s and F-16s....I dont know where did you added up awesome 7 to 15 to make it 22

 

[rockstarIN]

True.. My point was that non-stealth aircraft with modern gen avionics still have a place.

Stealth is very important mate, bigger crafts like F-15s & Su-30s have high RCS but have bigger radars+enough pods for ECMs.

 

[wakapdf]

stealth is only good for hit and run tactics, but if u were to engage in a close dogfight than stealth is no good. qasibr is right, mig 21 of f7 with decent avionics can effectively engage f22 because they have high maneuverability. US airforce dont pay that much attention to maneuverability anyhow, they believe if they can shoot something from a mile away, whats the point of maneuverability

 

[graphican]

OH so paksitan will have a stealth jf-17, thats great with their tight budget if they can acheive something like this - it will increase the number of toys in their arsenal ,

also india wont be too worried either.

but i dont see paksitan getting some fifth gen fighter for long time. reason being they dont need one currently. and none is on offer too.
china wont supply their top of the line equipment. because they want to keep ambiguity around their weapon and keep other guessing for what ever reason.
also their budget wont allow it.

Here at PDF, new people like you appear twice a day and after spending few months learn how wrong perceptions they had when they initially joined. Enjoy yourstay and you will realize your world of fantasy is not so real.