PAF and the JXX Fifth Gen Fighter

[gambit]

Jagjitnatt, thank you for the reminder. It is pointless to argue with a fanboy. I think it is clear that whatever RAAF squadron leader Chappell claims, "gambit" will accept the claim without any critical examination. That is actually quite sad and not what I had expected. I am disappointed.

Nothing wrong with being a 'fanboy'. But what is wrong is being a 'fanboy' without supporting evidences and critical thinking skills. You have neither.

 

[Hindutvadi]

I started to read this thread to know about J-XX...but i ended up knowing about f-22.

 

[SBD-3]

I started to read this thread to know about J-XX...but i ended up knowing about f-22.

Fruits of derailing

 

[Storm Force]

Guys chengduise as uploaded a Image of a New Fighter maybe JXX is closr than we think.

Which means my question remains

Should PAF jump on board JXX IN 2015 and by Pass FC20.

i SUPPOSE IT DEPENDS wat PAF to to Thunder over the next 5 years first.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

IMO PAF must reduce the number of JF-17 to 150 order no more then 36 FC-20 and save money for Chinese stealth fighters.

 

[rockstarIN]

^^^Do not change your plans just coz of one blurred picture up in the forum, its long way to go...

 

[conworldus]

I think the best way for Pakistan to go about this is to jointly produce a stealth modified JF-17 that uses J-XX technology instead of J-XX itself. This way ToT will also be much easier since Pakistan already has the foundation for the JF-17.

 

[mjnaushad]

^^^Do not change your plans just coz of one blurred picture up in the forum, its long way to go...

Those who plan for PAF know much more than a blurred picture.

 

[SQ8]

^^^Do not change your plans just coz of one blurred picture up in the forum, its long way to go...

Are you referring to the ..fans.. plans here..or the actual plans?

 

[MastanKhan]

If you manage to attribute the quote to the right person, you might have a little credibility. Hint: see post #109.

By the way, I'm not budging from my original position. Within eyeball-range, a F-22 can be shot down with a heat-seeking missile (e.g. AIM-9 Sidewinder). I don't care what you or that RAAF squadron leader claims. Common sense trumps silly claims.

Hi,

At first I thought you had a little substance---but then this post blew it all for you----.

See---with your common sense approach----you think that just because you can see something visually---a missile can also see that same thing with the same perspective---.

Do you understand where I am getting to now---does the common sense tell you in which direction I am headed---should I continue or stop here---maybe not.

The optical connection, the physiology and connenction between the eye to the brain in humans is based on different factors as compared to that of the eye/optics/sensors in the missile head to the missile brain.

Whereas there are no jammers to block our sensation of vision persay ( flash bang grenades )---the jammers on the F 22 can blind that aim 9 sidewinder to where it doesnot know if there is any aircraft in the area---. So----there is no place for common sense---.

It is not a matter of common sense issue at this stage---it is more of a technical problem.

Secondly---whomsoever talks about the dowining of the F117 over the balkans---needs to talked about the technique used in dowing that aircraft---.

Without talking about the background in the shooting of that aircraft---how did it happen and the strategy used to down it----the poster is just being ignorant and insulting to others---this type of post should not be encouraged and if it was upto me---the poster warned one time to come up with some kind of explanation/analogy behind the shooting or be terminated from this board.

 

[Jigs]

You're right. The F22 is good, but it just isn't as good as people hyped it up to be. F-22 is more of a propaganda than a fighting machine. It has never been used anywhere outside the US, and it hasn't engaged any fighter aircraft outside US yet.

US seems to glorify it beyond sanity, and yet shut down the program. The F-22 is not invincible, and can be shot down. According to me 2 Su30s should be enough to take it down.

90% claims regarding F-22's performance are propaganda. Nothing else.

This lost all your credibility for me. The idea that having more aircraft results in defeating a F-22 especially in the current warfare environment. Think about that for a minute.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The technology in the F 22 has taken the fighter interceptor aircraft to a totally different pleateau.

The american war machinery has never been based upon propagnda---it never was and never will be---.

American war machines are designed by the manufacturer on the premise---promise less deliver more--F16---F15--F18 or the F22---each one of them a top tier pltaform second to none---.

A lot of people are thinking about combat between the F 22 and the SU 30 with their blinders on---they are having a very difficult time understanding that F 22 is not coming for a dog fight---the strengths of the F 22 are different than those of the conventional air dominance fighters---.

Whereas the conventional fighters have sensitive radars, bvr's for long range---but nothing to hide their presence--the F 22 doesnot let the opponent know about its presence---even within the critical launch range.

The shutting down of the project has other reasons---first---the asircxraft has performed way beyond any expectations---there would possibly be no other aircraft to come close to it within the next 10 to 15 years----so----current numbers are enough---.

Next--based on what the usaf has learnt from the F 22----the next plane would be pilotless---usaf has gone in a different direction---so basically no need to waste anymore funds.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Hi,

The technology in the F 22 has taken the fighter interceptor aircraft to a totally different pleateau.

The american war machinery has never been based upon propagnda---it never was and never will be---.

American war machines are designed by the manufacturer on the premise---promise less deliver more--F16---F15--F18 or the F22---each one of them a top tier pltaform second to none---.

A lot of people are thinking about combat between the F 22 and the SU 30 with their blinders on---they are having a very difficult time understanding that F 22 is not coming for a dog fight---the strengths of the F 22 are different than those of the conventional air dominance fighters---.

Whereas the conventional fighters have sensitive radars, bvr's for long range---but nothing to hide their presence--the F 22 doesnot let the opponent know about its presence---even within the critical launch range.

The shutting down of the project has other reasons---first---the asircxraft has performed way beyond any expectations---there would possibly be no other aircraft to come close to it within the next 10 to 15 years----so----current numbers are enough---.

Next--based on what the usaf has learnt from the F 22----the next plane would be pilotless---usaf has gone in a different direction---so basically no need to waste anymore funds.

And let me add another reason Khan Sahib.

American legacy fighters are good enough to secure air superiority against any adversary. Whats the point of going for further F22's, when upgrading the F15's and F16's with AESA and JHMCS package can get the job done. American military machine is absolutely second to none, their is no adversary right now in the world that can stand up against the US in a conventional military fight.

On a side note, SU30's perception with Indians of "God's Gift to Aviation" still continues . 2 SU30 are good enough to take on F22 , i think they forgot how the F15's and F16's hammered the SU30MKI to the point where the IAF pilots refused to go one on one against the top tiered USAF pilots. The Americans evaluated the MKI at Nellis, they weren't impressed as it was nothing revolutionary considering what the Indians were saying about this plane.

 

[Martian2]

Hi,

At first I thought you had a little substance---but then this post blew it all for you----.

See---with your common sense approach----you think that just because you can see something visually---a missile can also see that same thing with the same perspective---.

Do you understand where I am getting to now---does the common sense tell you in which direction I am headed---should I continue or stop here---maybe not.

The optical connection, the physiology and connenction between the eye to the brain in humans is based on different factors as compared to that of the eye/optics/sensors in the missile head to the missile brain.

Whereas there are no jammers to block our sensation of vision persay ( flash bang grenades )---the jammers on the F 22 can blind that aim 9 sidewinder to where it doesnot know if there is any aircraft in the area---. So----there is no place for common sense---.

It is not a matter of common sense issue at this stage---it is more of a technical problem.

Secondly---whomsoever talks about the dowining of the F117 over the balkans---needs to talked about the technique used in dowing that aircraft---.

Without talking about the background in the shooting of that aircraft---how did it happen and the strategy used to down it----the poster is just being ignorant and insulting to others---this type of post should not be encouraged and if it was upto me---the poster warned one time to come up with some kind of explanation/analogy behind the shooting or be terminated from this board.

You are just annoying me. The bright orange flames that you see in the engines of the F-22 are emitting electromagnetic radiation in the infrared range. This is basic physics that everyone learns in high school. The infrared detector on the heat-seeking missile will home in on that electromagnetic emission for a kill.

Have you noticed that "gambit" is not disputing that a AIM-9 Sidewinder would kill a F-22 from behind in close range? He's trying to squirm out of it by claiming that the F-15 in the Red Flag exercise may only have radar-tracking missiles.

Gambit knows that I raised a good point, but his pride prevents him from acknowledging it.

 

[gambit]

You are just annoying me.

And you annoy everyone with your obstinacy and refusal to admit that because you have no experience others who do may have more credibility than you do.

The bright orange flames that you see in the engines of the F-22 are emitting electromagnetic radiation in the infrared range. This is basic physics that everyone learns in high school. The infrared detector on the heat-seeking missile will home in on that electromagnetic emission for a kill.

And what is so shocking about that?

Have you noticed that "gambit" is not disputing that a AIM-9 Sidewinder would kill a F-22 from behind in close range? He's trying to squirm out of it by claiming that the F-15 in the Red Flag exercise may only have radar-tracking missiles.

Gambit knows that I raised a good point, but his pride prevents him from acknowledging it.

What is there to dispute? Precisely because you have never served in the military, you are making assumptions about training -- erroneous assumptions. Before you start boasting, why not prove that such controlled training programs do not exist?