PAF and Saturation Bombings.

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

In the era of smart weapons the concept of saturation bombings or carpet bombings is rapidly becoming obsolete. It has also become a war crime as of Article 51 of the 1977 Protocol 1 of the Geneva Conventions to bomb indiscriminately on areas containing a concentration of civilians.
Nevertheless we have seen in the recent decades how the Americans used the concept of saturation bombings very effectively on military formations in the Afghan and Gulf wars. There is not even a shadow of doubt, if given a chance they will exercise the same in the future theaters of war. Americans are still managing to keep a bulk of their 70 years old Stratofortresses air worthy equipped with JDAMs and MOABs(maybe).

PAF in recent decades focused more on air defence roles and platforms. The deep strike and interdiction roles were handed over to the strategic command. Although i do feel we need dedicated heavier platforms for close support and concentration bombings to supplement our NASRs and field artillery. The psychological impact of metal raining from the sky and hitting the ground is unimaginable. I have seen battle hardened Iraqis and Taliban fleeing from their bunkers in droves ,miles away from the impact area.
PAF in the past have used Hercules and B57s for similar roles.

Our Mirages are potent aircraft but their air frames are getting older and their load capacity is depreciating.

Our Multi role F16s are primarily dedicated for air defence roles to cater for a much larger enemy.


Though we dont have the same luxury as the Americans,there maybe some cheaper alternatives. I always loved the versatility and adaptability of the rugged and reliable C 130.
Since we have been operating C 130s for more than five decades,we dont have any operational and maintenance issues with them.Currently Uncle Sam is nice to us ,i wonder if we can get a hand on few of them under EDA. There are hundreds of C130s parked in the Arizona Boneyard waiting for some one to pick them(Maybe PAF?).

 

[sparten]

While there is an argument for using large multi engine platforms for the PAF, they are so they can carry the new hypersonic CMs, which are typically enormous, and cannot be efficiently mated to a fighter sized a/c.

No one has suggested “saturation” bombings. The example you gave were in very permissive environments.
Even the Vietnam example, when already obsolete SA-2 were used, yeah they had wheat were considered near unsustainable losses, 1 a day.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

While there is an argument for using large multi engine platforms for the PAF, they are so they can carry the new hypersonic CMs, which are typically enormous, and cannot be efficiently mated to a fighter sized a/c.

No one has suggested “saturation” bombings. The example you gave were in very permissive environments.
Even the Vietnam example, when already obsolete SA-2 were used, yeah they had wheat were considered near unsustainable losses, 1 a day.

Agree, but Cruise missiles are more expensive than dumb bombs with kits. Americans during the Gulf war have used Saturation bombings on concentrated Armoured columns. The Shock and Awe experienced by the Iraqi Cavalry regiments/brigades sent panic waves throughout the formations. Since India has much more armoured divisions than us ,a similar method can be applicable in our scenario as well. I have also seen a whole army(many thousands) of battle hardened Taliban surrender in Kunduz by just one wave of saturation bombing in 2011.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Agree, but Cruise missiles are more expensive than dumb bombs with kits. Americans during the Gulf war have used Saturation bombings on concentrated Armoured columns. The Shock and Awe experienced by the Iraqi Cavalry regiments/brigades sent panic waves throughout the formations. Since India has much more armoured divisions than us ,a similar method can be applicable in our scenario as well. I have also seen a whole army(many thousands) of battle hardened Taliban surrender in Kunduz by just one wave of saturation bombing in 2011.

absolute ideas we can use few drones armed with precision guideness with precision accuracy, carpet bombing is old idea since ww2, even US armed forces are getting away this trends and prefer stand off CM launches from air/land/sea, in fact they started to neglect this idea since 50s when first Soviet SAMs ( SA-2) enters service @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

absolute ideas we can use few drones armed with precision guideness with precision accuracy, carpet bombing is old idea since ww2, even US armed forces are getting away this trends and prefer stand off CM launches from air/land/sea, in fact they started to neglect this idea since 50s when first Soviet SAMs ( SA-2) enters service @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Its an old idea which the greatest super power still uses to date. The globe is littered with US heavy bombers from Diego Garcia to Okinawa and from Doha to Fairford, they are itching to bomb the hell out of the Iranians but in vain. I for one am a big fan of Saturation bombings on enemy armoured formations.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Its an old idea which the greatest super power still uses to date. The globe is littered with US heavy bombers from Diego Garcia to Okinawa and from Doha to Fairford, they are itching to bomb the hell out of the Iranians but in vain. I for one am a big fan of Saturation bombings on enemy armoured formations.

we don't need bombers, they are suited for superpower where their targets thousand of miles away, 2/3 CMs did the same job with high accuracy as 25-30 unguided bombs doing same job, bombers needs fighter escorts for it safety, or first strike/SEAD/DEAD jet can destroy SAMs batteries and clears the way for bombers, then air superiorty fighter jet clean opponent air superiority jets then bombers came into play, your likening doesn't matter @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Its an old idea which the greatest super power still uses to date. The globe is littered with US heavy bombers from Diego Garcia to Okinawa and from Doha to Fairford, they are itching to bomb the hell out of the Iranians but in vain. I for one am a big fan of Saturation bombings on enemy armoured formations.

we don't need bombers, they are suited for superpower where their targets thousand of miles away, 2/3 CMs did the same job with high accuracy as 25-30 unguided bombs doing same job, bombers needs fighter escorts for it safety, or first strike/SEAD/DEAD jet can destroy SAMs batteries and clears the way for bombers, then air superiorty fighter jet clean opponent air superiority jets then bombers came into play, your likening doesn't matter @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

we don't need bombers, they are suited for superpower where their targets thousand of miles away, 2/3 CMs did the same job with high accuracy as 25-30 unguided bombs doing same job, bombers needs fighter escorts for it safety, or first strike/SEAD/DEAD jet can destroy SAMs batteries and clears the way for bombers, then air superiorty fighter jet clean opponent air superiority jets then bombers came into play, your likening doesn't matter @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE


we don't need bombers, they are suited for superpower where their targets thousand of miles away, 2/3 CMs did the same job with high accuracy as 25-30 unguided bombs doing same job, bombers needs fighter escorts for it safety, or first strike/SEAD/DEAD jet can destroy SAMs batteries and clears the way for bombers, then air superiorty fighter jet clean opponent air superiority jets then bombers came into play, your likening doesn't matter @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

I am imagining a scenario in Rajisthan bordering South Punjab and Sindh, where huge concentrated enemy armoured columns will be deployed. Keeping the view of this threat we introduced Nasr to counter such moves. We should also have an alternative strategy as well as a back up plan.
C 130s have been known to Carry massive ordnance inside on crates with chutes as well as outside on wings. Some can be converted into Gunships with own specs. Provided they are given air support i still thing they will be a great and cheaper force multiplier.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I am imagining a scenario in Rajisthan bordering South Punjab and Sindh, where huge concentrated enemy armoured columns will be deployed. Keeping the view of this threat we introduced Nasr to counter such moves. We should also have an alternative strategy as well as a back up plan.
C 130s have been known to Carry massive ordnance inside on crates with chutes as well as outside on wings. Some can be converted into Gunships with own specs. Provided they are given air support i still thing they will be a great and cheaper force multiplier.

C-130 easy target for long range SAMs of the enemy, why don't you understand, and raining few hundred CMs effectively neutralize enemy formations/installations effectively , carpet bombing is crappy idea in modern warfare @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

C-130 easy target for long range SAMs of the enemy, why don't you understand, and raining few hundred CMs effectively neutralize enemy formations/installations effectively , carpet bombing is crappy idea in modern warfare @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Agree but do remember a single C 130 saturation bombing raid on Pathankot railway station in 1965 paralysed the whole enemy movements for days and gave us time to regroup.
Surely some close air superiority mechanism can be devised to counter any SAM or Fighter threats. I have also seen Indians modify some of their Antonovs transport fleet for the same purposes.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Agree but do remember a single C 130 saturation bombing raid on Pathankot railway station in 1965 paralysed the whole enemy movements for days and gave us time to regroup.
Surely some close air superiority mechanism can be devised to counter any SAM or Fighter threats. I have also seen Indians modify some of their Antonovs transport fleet for the same purposes.

in 1965 there was no long rage SAMS in India or in Pakistan only AAA (Anti aircraft artillery) were present easy to evade, now please tell me why USA develop stand off CMs (Hound Dog) in 50s, when first SA-2 batteries were put by USSR, please explain @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

 

[WarKa DaNG]

Cant be the guided bombs dropped from C-130 and then guided through datalink link by another jet

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

in 1965 there was no long rage SAMS in India or in Pakistan only AAA (Anti aircraft artillery) were present easy to evade, now please tell me why USA develop stand off CMs (Hound Dog) in 50s, when first SA-2 batteries were put by USSR, please explain @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

You can put the same questions to the Indians who have modified many Antonovs and used them in exercises along our border recently.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Cant be the guided bombs dropped from C-130 and then guided through datalink link by another jet

Then C-130 will become easy prey for indian long range SAMs @WarKa DaNG

You can put the same questions to the Indians who have modified many Antonovs and used them in exercises along our border recently.

because WE have no modern long range SAMS currently at our arsenal that's why HQ-2B (SA-2) has range of 30 Km, HQ-16 40 km, SPADA 2000 25 km @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Then C-130 will become easy prey for indian long range SAMs @WarKa DaNG

Then C-130 will become easy prey for indian long range SAMs @WarKa DaNG


because WE have no modern long range SAMS currently at our arsenal that's why HQ-2B (SA-2) has range of 30 Km, HQ-16 40 km, SPADA 2000 25 km @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

It means we need to do something about it asap or be on the receiving end of their saturation bombings.

 

[Ultima Thule]

It means we need to do something about it asap or be on the receiving end of their saturation bombings.

no there not for destroying for Military targets but so called terrorist targets in Pakistan especially in southern Punjab with limited bomb load not like B-52/B-1B have @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE