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‘Padma’ latest Bangladesh Navy warship

If you support BAL, it's all right you can assert these all because after all it's all happening in their tenure. But if you don't or you do possess a neutral view, I have some points to mention so we can judge the real situation. BAL actually is fortunate on some national achievements which it didn't have any starting role like Jamuna bridge. With our lower class political practice we never utter the name who was actually involved within one achievement at the beginning phase or who dreamed like Bhasani's name almost blurred from scene now.

Now let's have some military assessment starting from our democratic era (!!!) since 91:

1. One important wing of our internal security Coast Guard was planned by BNP probably in 1993.

2. The brand new Ulsan class frigate actually was completely financed by Saudi govt. which got materialized during BAL era and that procurement was not transparent. The finance from Saudi Arabia didn't come all on a sudden, it was on table long before BAL ascended then. Anyway, ultimately it was BAL's achievement as it was inducted on their time.

3. BNP procured probably 2 (or 3) squadrons of F-7 (MB,BG) in their 2 terms. Hasina just did that procuring Mig-29 from Russia which was also not transparent though I like Russian toys...both parties should procure some from Russia. But for sure BNP would procure minimum one squadron from China instead of Russia.

4. In their last term BNP signed the military pact with China and as part of it we see some military achievement during this BAL term. Locally building ship under ToT from China, the aeronautical center (named after Bangabandhu), tanks etc. are part of this (also probably F-7 BGI). Only the nuclear power plant has been moved to Russia but in fact a MoU was also signed before with China.

5. Forces Goal 2020 was a draft initiated by BNP, it was not finalized then. The draft finally got materialized by BAL as Forces Goal 2030 not 20. I don't blame BAL for making it 10 years later because finalization always has obstacles and BNP also would make it so. My point is BAL doesn't initiate a new plan for our military. The recent procurement deal with Russia, China, USA are part of modernization under Forces Goal 2030. Besides, BAL has huge pressure inside military for killing army officers in BDR mutiny and so trying to please military top brass. They can't avoid these procurement deals at their will.

6. The only contribution at planning phase BAL has probably is RAB which BNP never said to us. One RAB type elite force 1st was quoted by Hasina at 97/98 later BNP materialized it though I think BAL didn't have any draft.

7. SWADS was 1st requested to US by Khaleda, later recently it got materialized.
Both BAL, BNP are anti Bangladeshi forces but BAL is at no. 1 position. As for evidence in 2001 border conflict Bangladesh was not in a situation to bow down to india because all bsf beasts' dead bodies were found inside Bangladesh and killing invaders are never a fault. Our Hasina b$stard begged apology to indian prime minister breaking all protocols of history whereas it was supposed to be india who would beg that apology for invading us. Later Khaleda ascending on throne mysteriously sent Major General Fazlur Rahman to forceful retirement and that Padua has been handed over to india.

Simply from planning to materializing it takes longer and BAL's basket gets filled like Hatirjhil project which was actually caretaker's plan. BAL never uttered a single word about who 1st planned it.

Thanks for the elaborate and information-filled post of yours. I almost agree with you in all the points of your post. If BNP really did those things the efforts are praiseworthy. However, talking of a project without a proper planning and schedule is also meaningless. BNP did many such things in its tenure, and AL's SHW has been doing similar things for the last four years. She wakes up in the morning, calls the journalists and talk about her hundreds of dreams that never materialize.

Similarly, BNP said something that it did not plan properly. AL came to power and hijacked all those concepts and claimed them as its own. However, you must agree that this time AL is inducting military hardwares in two hands from all the sources including China, Russia and USA. AL is regarded as pro-India. There are certain historical reasons to say so. But, you must agree that this time AL has successfully taken away the center of attention from BD-India border to BD-Burma border, sea or land.

Do you think AL or BNP could have procured so much of armaments if it were in conflict with ndia all the time? SHW had to pretend India-friendly to make BD able to induct weapons from non-China sources. I think, it is quite a good diplomacy, and the weapons BD is inducting will certainly be used equally against any bullies, be it Burma or India.

However, I believe that since BD military is getting stronger, therefore, the chances of being ridiculed and bullied are getting slimmer. I only hope BNP does not put moratorium on the purchases of weapons that started in the current AL term. Rather, BNP should do more in both economy and military weapons inductions.
 
He He BDians are thinking that making a patrol boat with China help is a big boost to their military.:lol:
 
@eastwatch just for the record, all these being procured from russia now was planned in 2003(from China) .But The then Govt. Could not materialize those instantly due to lack of funds ! - Brigadier Shakhwat Hossain , P.alo today!
 
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@eastwatch just for the record, all these being procured from russia now was planned in 2003(from China) .But The then Govt. Could not materialize those instantly due to lack of funds ! - Brigadier Shakhwat Hossain , P.alo today!

The plan and requirement was from army not from BNP. BNP just ignored the request including decommissioning of the frigate and cancellation of Migs which were bought only for 15 mil/ piece.
Lack of funding my foot.. why they needed to decommission the frigate? Why they bought F-7 for the same price of Migs???
 
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@eastwatch just for the record, all these being procured from russia now was planned in 2003(from China) .But The then Govt. Could not materialize those instantly due to lack of funds ! - Brigadier Shakhwat Hossain , P.alo today!

1) I will stand by the decision of the present govt that it improved relationship with Russia and blinded Indian eyes with love talks before it sought loans from Russia to purchase $1 billion worth of weapons. BNP lacked fund, but this govt also lacks fund. But, it is borrowing money from the future. The interest rate is high, but there is also a grace period.

2) When we start paying back in installments, the value of dollar will be cheaper than now. Add a 4.5% interest to the installments, the dollar will remain at par with today's value. So, this interest payment is to safeguard the position of the lender, Russia.

3) BNP could have taken similar approach to buy arms. But, it did not. It could not come out of its past mindset of only keeping good relationship with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Even the BNP's stupid FM Morshed Khan allowed a Taiwan Liason Office in Dhaka only to safeguard his personal business interest. M. Khan lacked the basic knowledge of diplomacy.

4) His only qualification was he happened to have studied in Tokyo, although we do not really know what he studied here or was he a regular student seeking a University degree or he was just an irregular student seeking to get himself admitted to a University. Anyway, his stupid decision could have forced China to rethink its relationship wih BD and could have given China an excuse to sell little or no armaments.

5) To tell you frankly, BNP was and is a novice in international politics. Today's AL is doing better. It has kept good relationship with India, USA, China and Russia. SHW made her maiden trip to China after her win in the election, it was not India. This is how BD is able to purchase weapons from all the three big powers. However, I would not claim AL is doing good also in the domestic politics.
 
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The plan and requirement was from army not from BNP. BNP just ignored the request including decommissioning of the frigate and cancellation of Migs which were bought only for 15 mil/ piece.
Lack of funding my foot.. why they needed to decommission the frigate? Why they bought F-7 for the same price of Migs???

1. Comparing an offensive air superiority fighter with a defensive interceptor with a secondary capability of ground attack? massive fail.

2. prothom alo - 08-03-2010 report -

p_001.jpg


oops iajdani this report made your post invalid.. :lol: ( crediting awamileagur for the purchase)

3.BNP government stopped paying the Russian supplier the remainder of the money as the Russians supplied faulty parts taking advantage of Hasina's last time corruption - thus forcing some of the MiG-29's to be grounded. A couple of years ago all of the MiG-29's were raised from storage after a new agreement was signed between the Bangladesh government and the Russian aircraft parts supplier. Thus breaking the backbone of BAF again ....

here is the cost --

p_001.jpg


Maintenance cost of 8 Mig29 due to faulty parts - 222 crore tk

Maintenance cost of 16 F7 BG ( poor man's F16 according to @eastwatch) - 52 crore tk..


okay

Why they bought F-7 for the same price of Migs???

8 mig29-purchase cost - 857 crore tk

16 F7 - cost - 898 crore tk

by same price you meant half price???



4. Some people here saying a large economy like Bangladesh bla bla bla

excuse me people -

What is our Military Budget?? 1 B?

whts BAF budget?? Minimize the 2.5 lakh strong Huge Army Budget

Whats left for Mig29 maintenance after all BAF spendings like salary etc......

Enough??

No.

Did Hasina allocate any extra money after purchasing?

No. (source bdmil admin)

whats the result ---

Half of the fleet cant fly anymore..

you only see 3-4 mig again and again ( Recent p.alo report)
 
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If BD could afford to fly Mig 21 in 1974 they could in 2001 too. In 10 years Migs maintenance was 222 crore which is 22 crore a year. Our national budge is 2 lacs crore a year. If BNP could not fund the rest of the Migs and deprived our Air Force of 4th generation fighter is just a shame. Its not affordability but petty politics which made them to ground them.
 
it should be BNS ruhul amin
Accentually ''original'' name of the frigate was BNS banglabanshu, after bnp came to power they decommission it and then again the Caretaker govt rename it as Khalid bin walid . after BAL return it get back its ''original'' name .

personally i think name of the frigate can be give by any Liberation a hero and if we can get more power full frigate or destroyer their name should by the Islamic hero like khalid bin walid .
 
those who thinks we cant efford is a complete lie.yes we can efford atleast 60 mordern fighter jets.cost 6 billion$. 12 years loan.half a billlion per year.open a tender u will see how all the companies run for it. jas-grippen,f-16 block 52,eurofighter,mig,sukhoi probably raphael too will bit the tender. comon bros they make those hardware for to sell and business.not to keep them at house garage. and rly if the army budget raise 1% to 1.5% nothing wrong it.even its lower than our neighbors . :)when there is a will, there is a way
 
Naval guns (at least the bigger and better ones) are stabilized on 3 axis. They have no problem firing ´on the move´ (note: even when no propulsion is used a navy ship will move along multiple axis so stabilization is a must) Ship gun fire-control system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for the need for howitzers (I suppose you mean ´relative to cannon´): your question is essentially whether naval guns tend to fire projectiles on a flat trajectory (like a cannon) or on a high trajectory with steep angles of ascent and descent (like a howitzer). Another difference being that cannon fire high velocity projectiles and howitzers low velocity rounds. Which means the latter use a smaller firing charge ... or at least that used to be the case untill fairly recently, about the end of the Second World War. See Howitzer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Artillery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We will let the data speak:

Russia / USSR 130 mm/70 (5.1") AK-130: Elevation -12 / +80 degrees
Italy 127 mm/64 (5") LW Elevation : about -15 / +70 degrees
Italy 127 mm/54 (5") Compact / LW : Elevation Compact: -15 / +83 degrees LW: -15 / +70 degrees
US 5"/62 (12.7 cm) Mark 45 Mod 4 : Elevation -15 / +65 degrees
US 5"/54 (12.7 cm) Mark 45 Mods 0 - 2 : Elevation -15 / +65 degrees
Britain 4.5"/55 (11.4 cm) Mark 8 Mod 0-1 : Elevation -10 / +55 degrees
Russia / USSR 100 mm/70 (3.9") AK-100 : Elevation -10 / +85 degrees
France 100 mm/55 (3.9") Model 1968 I-II/CADAM : Elevation -5 / +80 degrees
Italy 76 mm/62 (3") Naval Compact : Elevation -15 / +85 degrees
Russia Russia / USSR 76 mm/60 (3") AK-176 : Elevation -15 / +85 degrees by hand and -10 / +80 degrees by electric distance control system
Sweden 57 mm/70 (2.25") SAK Marks 1, 2 and 3 : Elevations
Mark 1: -10 / +78 degrees
Mark 2: -10 / +75 degrees
Mark 3: -10 / +77 degrees
Russia / USSR 57 mm/75 (2.24") AK-725 (ZIF-72) : Elevation -10 / +85 degrees

Two things to note:
1) all have the capability to fire at relatively high angles (at worst 55 degrees), reflecting dual role use for ship/shore bombardment and AAA.
2) all have relatively long barrels (55 to 75 caliber), a high pressure cannon like characteristic, illustrating descent from AAA artillery

So yes, they can ´lob´ shells but no they are not howitzers but - typically - modified high velocity anti-aircraft cannon. Which makes them good in the direct fire mode too, much like the WW2 German 88

Thanks. But what about a target that is relatively near and requires indirect fire (an on-shore target)? Is it an unlikely scenario?
 
those who thinks we cant efford is a complete lie.yes we can efford atleast 60 mordern fighter jets.cost 6 billion$. 12 years loan.half a billlion per year.open a tender u will see how all the companies run for it. jas-grippen,f-16 block 52,eurofighter,mig,sukhoi probably raphael too will bit the tender. comon bros they make those hardware for to sell and business.not to keep them at house garage. and rly if the army budget raise 1% to 1.5% nothing wrong it.even its lower than our neighbors . :)when there is a will, there is a way

Sorry, we cannot just buy $6billion worth of planes with our own money in just 12 years and without credit line from the seller. Tell us how it is possible and where is that much of money in Bangladesh? It will stall other purchases of important weapons. When BD is unable even to pay for a $3billion Padma Bridge, it is irresponsible to say we can afford such a big shopping, though, we are paying, perhaps, $200 million per year for various types of weapons from China and other countries.

Let the BAF Chief decide on what he can afford to buy or not with a limited purchase budget. BAF has its own planning and it makes purchases without a temptation. Military weapons are not for keeping in the showcase for others to see and appreciate their beauty.
 
1. Comparing an offensive air superiority fighter with a defensive interceptor with a secondary capability of ground attack? massive fail.

2. prothom alo - 08-03-2010 report -

p_001.jpg


oops iajdani this report made your post invalid.. :lol: ( crediting awamileagur for the purchase)

3.BNP government stopped paying the Russian supplier the remainder of the money as the Russians supplied faulty parts taking advantage of Hasina's last time corruption - thus forcing some of the MiG-29's to be grounded. A couple of years ago all of the MiG-29's were raised from storage after a new agreement was signed between the Bangladesh government and the Russian aircraft parts supplier. Thus breaking the backbone of BAF again ....

here is the cost --

p_001.jpg


Maintenance cost of 8 Mig29 due to faulty parts - 222 crore tk

Maintenance cost of 16 F7 BG ( poor man's F16 according to @eastwatch) - 52 crore tk..


okay



8 mig29-purchase cost - 857 crore tk

16 F7 - cost - 898 crore tk

by same price you meant half price???



4. Some people here saying a large economy like Bangladesh bla bla bla

excuse me people -

What is our Military Budget?? 1 B?

whts BAF budget?? Minimize the 2.5 lakh strong Huge Army Budget

Whats left for Mig29 maintenance after all BAF spendings like salary etc......

Enough??

No.

Did Hasina allocate any extra money after purchasing?

No. (source bdmil admin)

whats the result ---

Half of the fleet cant fly anymore..

you only see 3-4 mig again and again ( Recent p.alo report)

stop ur bla bla.u intentionally misguiding members .4 mig 29 r now in BD , rest of 4 r abroad for maintenance.source -BDM n ATN news.
prothom alor khobor o apni ecsha krito vabe vul shepeshen.

maintenance cost of 8 mig 29 for 9yrs =222 cr tk
maintenance cost of 16 F-7 for 4 yrs =52 cr tk.

2.5 gen aircrafter sathe 4++ gen air crafter parthokkota nischoy vul korben na.

eProthomAlo
 
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stop ur bla bla.u intentionally misguiding members .4 mig 29 r now in BD , rest of 4 r abroad for maintenance.source -BDM n ATN news.
prothom alo r ref je news dilen setao mittha.ami atokkhon online khuje 15.03.10 tarikher kothao arokom news pelam na.apni jodi sotti kotha bole thaken tobe sunirdisto link den.

amar ekhon kadte mon chaitese

Bangla likhte janen??

evabe google 1ta search den

site:prothom-alo.com যুদ্ধবিমান রক্ষণাবেক্ষণে ব্যয় ২৭৪ কোটি টাকা

ajaira a jalaben na

ami just screenshot diechi, e arekta dilam, jottoshob

p_001.jpg


and here is your link -

http://prothom-alo.com/detail/news/49084
 

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