PAC upgrading Super Mushshak aircraft for counter-insurgency operations

[DESERT FIGHTER]

So Kamra is reinventing the wheel in a less capable way???
Doing less with more- the Pakistani way these days apparently @MastanKhan @Quwa
Cheers all round!!
View attachment 397900 View attachment 397901

considerin its a prototype... and it can carry a larger payload than just KG or just 2 PGMs... im sure it can carry more ordinance,PGMs if required ?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

So Kamra is reinventing the wheel in a less capable way???
Doing less with more- the Pakistani way these days apparently @MastanKhan @Quwa
Cheers all round!!
View attachment 397900 View attachment 397901

TAI offered the Hurkus with co-production. It's powered by the PT6 which also powers the AW139 and Bell-412EP and for which PAC spent money raising an MRO facility.

If they wanted to push a COIN platform, they could have partnered with TAI when the Hurkus-C was drawn up and jointly sold that for $20 m a pop (still cheaper than the Super Tucano) - accruing even 25% of a contract's value would have returned $5 m per plane to PAC, which is the value of multiple Super Mushshak.

With Turkey's clout, they might have seen penetration in markets that are today buying IOMAX Archangels and Air Tractors - the cumulative life-cycle value of those markets is $1bn.

When I floated the idea of investing in the Hurkus-C to retired officers, I got a lecture on how slow moving planes are a liability, why everyone wants fast jets, etc, etc. ...and here we are today arming an even slower plane with less.

 

[Silver Fox XN]

So Kamra is reinventing the wheel in a less capable way???
Doing less with more- the Pakistani way these days apparently @MastanKhan @Quwa
Cheers all round!!
View attachment 397900 View attachment 397901

I diagree Sir! The old version had all unguided stuff! PAC is now talking about Guided Munition with an ISR capability also

 

[Cornered Tiger]

Bofor Bantam anti-tank missiles

why not some latest one?

 

[Silver Fox XN]

TAI offered the Hurkus with co-production. It's powered by the PT6 which also powers the AW139 and Bell-412EP and for which PAC spent money raising an MRO facility.

If they wanted to push a COIN platform, they could have partnered with TAI when the Hurkus-C was drawn up and jointly sold that for $20 m a pop (still cheaper than the Super Tucano) - accruing even 25% of a contract's value would have returned $5 m per plane to PAC, which is the value of multiple Super Mushshak.

With Turkey's clout, they might have seen penetration in markets that are today buying IOMAX Archangels and Air Tractors - the cumulative life-cycle value of those markets is $1bn.

When I floated the idea of investing in the Hurkus-C to retired officers, I got a lecture on how slow moving planes are a liability, why everyone wants fast jets, etc, etc. ...and here we are today arming an even slower plane with less.

Simple Maths! SMK is less then $1M. Where as other platforms are much more than $10M. So you get a cheaper COIN/Trainer/ISR/Recce platform

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Simple Maths! SMK is less then $1M. Where as other platforms are much more than $10M. So you get a cheaper COIN/Trainer/ISR/Recce platform

Sure, but the Super Mushshak also carries much, much less than those other platforms. The Hurkus-C fetches you a payload of 1,500 kg, which you can deploy via laser-guided missiles and rockets, laser and precision-guided bombs, and even small cruise missiles.

If you build the complete chain from aircraft to munitions to even sensors and avionics, your business activities in selling and maintaining the Hurkus-C would be much, much higher and longer-term than the Super Mushshak.

Kenya is ready to burn $400+ m on Air Tractors ... imagine if PAC partnered with TAI to jointly market and co-produce the Hurkus-C. Simply 25% of the value of that contract would have brought $100 m to PAC. In addition to that, the PAF could market its expertise in COIN and get after-sale consulting and training contracts worth another $10-20 m.

 

[SQ8]

I diagree Sir! The old version had all unguided stuff! PAC is now talking about Guided Munition with an ISR capability also

The older version is hanging more off the wings with a less powerful engine and wing structure than this supposed advanced model.

Also, youtube has a video of those outboard wire guided missiles.
Unguided or guided has nothing to do with weapon carriage capability

 

[Safriz]

Shove this up Afghani Border forces rear ends Tis will calm them down.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Shove this up Afghani Border forces rear ends Tis will calm them down.

In this respect, the AAF actually has a better fleet - i.e. A-29 Super Tucano, which is at least a proper dedicated COIN platform. PAC will be much better off partnering with TAI on the Hurkus-C if it intends to take on the low-end COIN market. Heck, they could even work with Paramount Group on the Mwari, which is still an all-round better scout and light attacker than the Super Mushshak. For the Super Mushshak, it'd be wiser to specialize on training.

 

[Safriz]

In this respect, the AAF actually has a better fleet - i.e. A-29 Super Tucano, which is at least a proper dedicated COIN platform. PAC will be much better off partnering with TAI on the Hurkus-C if it intends to take on the low-end COIN market. Heck, they could even work with Paramount Group on the Mwari, which is still an all-round better scout and light attacker than the Super Mushshak. For the Super Mushshak, it'd be wiser to specialize on training.

The training, Infrastructure needed to manufacture, modify and use these brand new systems you mention will outweigh whatever benefit they will offer. Mashaq's ever nut bolt is well known to PAC kamra,all infrastructure ready and much much feasible option.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The training, Infrastructure needed to manufacture, modify and use these brand new systems you mention will outweigh whatever benefit they will offer. Mashaq's ever nut bolt is well known to PAC kamra,all infrastructure ready and much much feasible option.

That's the point... It's a high value market. There are countries like Kenya, Nigeria, etc, willing to spend close to a $1bn on buying Air Tractors and Super Tucanos and maintaining them for 10-15 years. Then there are also the UAE, Jordan, etc, who have recurring light attack requirements. The market is leaning one way and PAC (alone) is trying to offer something that might be inherently OK, but is ultimately leaning the other way.

Besides, a Super Mushshak with at best two ATGM is paltry compared to a Hurkus-C with a 1,500 kg load-out that can be used to engage at varying ranges, day/night, and for a variety of targets (fixed or moving). It's not as well powered as the A-29 or Hurkus-C, which will limit other key aspects such as mobility and responsiveness when fully armed (with just two ATGM).

The Super Mushshak was envisaged as a good entry/screening trainer. Focus should be on improving aspect even further, especially in the face of new-gen Diamond and - I kid not - Sudanese screening trainers, lest they take up that market in the future. If PAC wants to get in on the dedicated COIN market, then it'd be better to partner with TAI on the Hurkus-C and/or improving the K-8.

 

[Mrc]

This is a novel idea... lets see how it pans out

 

[S.Y.A]

and much much feasible option.

at the cost of the pilots' lives. it will much much more susceptible to ground fire. it is the PAF(or whoever buys it) who will get its behind handed to them on a plate.

 

[Panzerkampf]

It's payload is much less than a PC-7 MK-2.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Innovation is good, but it should still be done correctly. The Super Mushshak, while very cheap, is inherently very limited. There are roles it was simply not meant for, and going into a hot-zone with relatively few armaments - which are straining its maneuverability and agility - was not one of them.

I would have partnered with TAI for the Hurkus-C very early on (when the plane was just sketches) and asked for 40%+ of co-production and after-sale support, MRO and munitions contracts. Partner with Turkey and go to each of those markets, e.g. Nigeria, Kenya, etc, and offer a complete aircraft, support, weapons and training - with people experienced in COIN no less - for 10-20% less than the competition. Heck, we could even package Super Mushshaks as trainers to accompany the Hurkus-C.