PAC | Avionics Production Factory.

[khanasifm]

Ok 2 block 3 were Built on 2020 as first article, while another 12 or 14 will be in 2021, a sqn worth of order to raise first block 3 sqn next year , Pac will produce all by December and perhaps hand over to Paf first quarter of 2022
All blcok 3 by 2025 or all 50 these wi replace perhaps all PGs

2025 onwards order will start replacing mirages

 

[HRK]

So KLJ-7A is confirmed. I am not sure if it had been officially confirmed before this.

but the question is which version, If I am not wrong KLJ-7 has 3 different liquid cool version and one air cool version

 

[Ali_Baba]

Excellent article. A Shame about them only ordering 30 JF17 Block III's so far. I wonder why? Its makes little sense, given the previous orders PAF has placed for the plane.

Lets see.

Interesting information about the new JF17s Block B's and potentiallay Block III using newer design Integral fuel tanks rather than bladders of Block 1/2 ...

 

[JamD]

but the question is which version, If I am not wrong KLJ-7 has 3 different liquid cool version and one air cool version

Pretty sure this version (whichever it is):

 

[JamD]

An order of 30 Block III's can point to either or both of the following:

1. PAF is expecting another platform to join
2. PAF is certain that Block 1 and 2 will be made comparable to block 3 so the entire fleet will be essentially block 3.

Also note we have clear statement on mounting AESA on JF-17B which is block 2, so at the very least block 2's can take the AESA.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@JamD

Could the test-flight goal for the FGFA could be a basic demonstrator based on current capabilities (in-house and off-the-shelf), while true development (of FCS, etc) happens later? Basically, we get something flying now but still expect a 10-15 year gap from the flight to the first squadron?

 

[JamD]

@JamD

Could the test-flight goal for the FGFA could be a basic demonstrator based on current capabilities (in-house and off-the-shelf), while true development (of FCS, etc) happens later? Basically, we get something flying now but still expect a 10-15 year gap from the flight to the first squadron?

Unlikely. FCS has to be developed with the first prototype - FCS is developed in parallel. And once it is developed you are either doing license production or tweaks later. No point in reinventing the wheel. So if a prototype flies with a foreign FCS, the final jet will probably fly with the same origin FCS. And this is likely what will happen.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Unlikely. FCS has to be developed with the first prototype - FCS is developed in parallel. And once it is developed you are either doing license production or tweaks later. No point in reinventing the wheel. So if a prototype flies with a foreign FCS, the final jet will probably fly with the same origin FCS. And this is likely what will happen.

So basically, 'seven years' could either be a lot of time for what the PAF's doing (i.e., they've secured the inputs and are cleared to use them for a fighter), or not enough time (i.e., they're developing the inputs).

 

[HRK]

Pretty sure this version (whichever it is):
View attachment 721072
View attachment 721073

I believe this is the very first version showcased 3-4 years back

An order of 30 Block III's can point to either or both of the following:

1. PAF is expecting another platform to join
2. PAF is certain that Block 1 and 2 will be made comparable to block 3 so the entire fleet will be essentially block 3.

Also note we have clear statement on mounting AESA on JF-17B which is block 2, so at the very least block 2's can take the AESA.

Or may be PAF is expecting to order the other 20 with locally made/built AESA radar while the radar after complete TOT for first batch of 30 radars for JF-17 blk-III .... like some sort of Offsets conditional agreement

With a KLJ-7A production line being created at APF, there is every likelihood the earlier Block I/II JF-17s could be upgraded too.

Or all 3 are the possible reasons

 

[JamD]

Or may be PAF is expecting to order the other 20 with locally made/built AESA radar while the radar after complete TOT for first batch of 30 radars for JF-17 blk-III .... like some sort of Offsets conditional agreement

Yes, that is the optimistic version. Let's see what happens.

 

[peagle]

Pretty sure this version (whichever it is):
View attachment 721072
View attachment 721073

What makes you think it could be this version?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

An order of 30 Block III's can point to either or both of the following:

1. PAF is expecting another platform to join
2. PAF is certain that Block 1 and 2 will be made comparable to block 3 so the entire fleet will be essentially block 3.

Also note we have clear statement on mounting AESA on JF-17B which is block 2, so at the very least block 2's can take the AESA.

IIRC the JF-17B is only Block-2 in as far as its radar and avionics suite. It's technically closer to the Block-III, e.g., 3-axis fly-by-wire.

That said, I don't think there's anything stopping the Block-IIs or even Block-Is from at least getting an AESA radar. For example, the competing Chinese radar -- LFK601E -- was tested from an earlier JF-17 prototype and marketed as a good retrofit solution.

It wouldn't surprise me if the KLJ-7A was certified to work on the Block-IIs and Block-Is (though it might not lead to a full Block-III upgrade, which includes the new FBW and space for an integrated ECM).

Still, the new AESA radar would at least give the Block-I/IIs better ECCM, better detection ranges, increased targeting, and compatibility with the longer-ranged AAMs. I just wonder when would be a good time to run the upgrade. The Block-Is are undergoing their overhauls, so I guess upgrading them isn't a priority (these planes will start reaching 20 years from 2030). Maybe the Block-2s?

 

[kursed]

Still sounds extremely ambitious but let's see.

There is no NGFA, unless another partner joins the program.

IIRC the JF-17B is only Block-2 in as far as its radar and avionics suite. It's technically closer to the Block-III, e.g., 3-axis fly-by-wire.

That said, I don't think there's anything stopping the Block-IIs or even Block-Is from at least getting an AESA radar. For example, the competing Chinese radar -- LFK601E -- was tested from an earlier JF-17 prototype and marketed as a good retrofit solution.

It wouldn't surprise me if the KLJ-7A was certified to work on the Block-IIs and Block-Is (though it might not lead to a full Block-III upgrade, which includes the new FBW and space for an integrated ECM).

Still, the new AESA radar would at least give the Block-I/IIs better ECCM, better detection ranges, increased targeting, and compatibility with the longer-ranged AAMs. I just wonder when would be a good time to run the upgrade. The Block-Is are undergoing their overhauls, so I guess upgrading them isn't a priority (these planes will start reaching 20 years from 2030). Maybe the Block-2s?

It does seem like entire Block 2 fleet will see radar updates as well, we will not start an entire radar production line in Kamra just for 40 odd Block 3s and Bravos. It does not make any sense. It'd only make sense if a retrofit of at least Block 2 jets is planned as well.

 

[Yasser76]

Maybe PAF us looking at retiring the 50 or so high hour Block 1s early?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

There is no NGFA, unless another partner joins the program.

It does seem like entire Block 2 fleet will see radar updates as well, we will not start an entire radar production line in Kamra just for 40 odd Block 3s and Bravos. It does not make any sense. It'd only make sense if a retrofit of at least Block 2 jets is planned as well.

I think the 2028 target may indicate that they found said partner -- 99% chance being the Chinese. I can't think of any other country they would be able to get critical inputs (e.g., engine, FCS, TRMs, etc).