PAC And China,s JXX/J14 Project

[unicorn148]

T-50 also has internal bay and has more payload capacity than F22 and the range of T50 is double that of F22

 

[SBD-3]

T-50 also has internal bay and has more payload capacity than F22 and the range of T50 is double that of F22

hello........More playload than F-22 and double range.....lols......then it should be something like B-2 not F-22

 

[Kinshuk]

hello........More playload than F-22 and double range.....lols......then it should be something like B-2 not F-22

Yes it has more payload than F-22 and what makes it B-2. Were you just looking for something to post? gr8

 

[gogbot]

Now listen before you write me of as a troll,

I would like you read and then answer a few questions no member seems to be addressing.

Now i am well aware that The Most advances system to date that China is giving to Pak is the FC-20 with full ToT.

Now Pak is getting the FC-20 10 years after the Chinese made the J-10.

Now i have been following the J-XX program with much curiosity for a while now. I can say that I believe China will have a 5th gen fighter of some sort in Before or by 2020.

What i also know is that this plane will first service Chinese needs, and only when it has first serviced China's needs will it then show it the PAF, as China did with the J-10.

While PAF will get the fighter from China at some point, when is it going to be, So far there is not even a single interview where the J-XX and Pakistan have been mention together.

So far all i am hearing from the members of the forum is the Idea that China will simply hand over the J-XX as soon as it rolls of the production line.

which lets face it is bit Naive dont you think, Would it not be rational to assume that even After China makes the plane, it will need to get to grips with building and maintaining that kind technology. And then after deploying it is sufficient numbers as to service its own needs it will then Tell the world about, and then negotiations for the plane can star with the PAF.

Now all this i dont see happening until at least 15 years,

Key thing to remember is that The J-XX is being built by the Chinese to counter the F-22 and F-35, and secure China's Interests , Only when it has accomplished that will it be seen in The Hands of the PAF.

But of course some of you readers will just call me an idiot Indian and say China Pakistan friendship forever.

But for those few who have the gift of reason explain to me why i am wrong, or agree with me.

 

[Kinshuk]

Agreed gobot.

Its like there's nothing wrong in accepting the fact that exist with your country, If every person start thinking that ways only then progress is possible. But ignoring the fact and living in a dream world is like closing your eyes and assuming you are invisible.

Moreover I have mentioned it in many of my posts that China factor is good for Pakistan, even better than Russian factor for India, But soon they must realising that the technological and numerical gap is increasing at a fast pace. Pakistan should also partner other countries, one is French, which is nutral in its approach and Pakistan will never have to worry about US factor and on the other hand they will get better technology + Chinese Partnership an add on.

There are some people, from Pak also, who agree on this including Mastan Khan, But others like to live in fantasy.

PS- Please be advised I have not mentioned India and my attempt was to make a decent and coherent post so I request you to make sense before quoting my post.

 

[gogbot]

Agreed gobot.

Its like there's nothing wrong in accepting the fact that exist with your country, If every person start thinking that ways only then progress is possible. But ignoring the fact and living in a dream world is like closing your eyes and assuming you are invisible.

Moreover I have mentioned it in many of my posts that China factor is good for Pakistan, even better than Russian factor for India, But soon they must realising that the technological and numerical gap is increasing at a fast pace. Pakistan should also partner other countries, one is French, which is nutral in its approach and Pakistan will never have to worry about US factor and on the other hand they will get better technology + Chinese Partnership an add on.

There are some people, from Pak also, who agree on this including Mastan Khan, But others like to live in fantasy.

PS- Please be advised I have not mentioned India and my attempt was to make a decent and coherent post so I request you to make sense before quoting my post.

IF they have the money there are many countries with which Pak can partner with, Sweden being one.

They would love to buy the Grphen NG, Its fits their doctrine perfectly. But there are complications that prevent such measures for Pakistan

 

[TaimiKhan]

Now listen before you write me of as a troll,

I would like you read and then answer a few questions no member seems to be addressing.

Now i am well aware that The Most advances system to date that China is giving to Pak is the FC-20 with full ToT.

Now Pak is getting the FC-20 10 years after the Chinese made the J-10.

Now i have been following the J-XX program with much curiosity for a while now. I can say that I believe China will have a 5th gen fighter of some sort in Before or by 2020.

What i also know is that this plane will first service Chinese needs, and only when it has first serviced China's needs will it then show it the PAF, as China did with the J-10.

While PAF will get the fighter from China at some point, when is it going to be, So far there is not even a single interview where the J-XX and Pakistan have been mention together.

So far all i am hearing from the members of the forum is the Idea that China will simply hand over the J-XX as soon as it rolls of the production line.

which lets face it is bit Naive dont you think, Would it not be rational to assume that even After China makes the plane, it will need to get to grips with building and maintaining that kind technology. And then after deploying it is sufficient numbers as to service its own needs it will then Tell the world about, and then negotiations for the plane can star with the PAF.

Now all this i dont see happening until at least 15 years,

Key thing to remember is that The J-XX is being built by the Chinese to counter the F-22 and F-35, and secure China's Interests , Only when it has accomplished that will it be seen in The Hands of the PAF.

But of course some of you readers will just call me an idiot Indian and say China Pakistan friendship forever.

But for those few who have the gift of reason explain to me why i am wrong, or agree with me.

FC-20 is not coming with full ToT firstly.

And as for J-10, even if we had wanted to get them, engine issue was there which would have made it difficult to be obtained, as its russian engine. J-10 became fully operational just a few years ago, not 10 years ago.

Plus, we did not needed J-10 a few years back, but once IAF started to modernize and induct more lethal platforms, countering them became an issue and PAF started to go for more bigger platforms, which led to the J-10s.

And if engine hadn't been an issue, we would have gotten them by now, the J-10A version.

But PAF gave its own requirements to the Chinese and asked for a J-10 based on those requirements, which we will be getting. And that i believe you know is J-10B. The decision to get J-10 was made way back in 2005-6, when J-10 was shown to the world. Even in 2006 Musharaf was shown the production facilities too, so get the idea from that.

With a Chinese engine and avionics suite, we won't have to see any reason for delays as per past practice seen in JF-17s or even J-10s.

Do remember, China inducted the first regiment of J-10s in 2004, and within 2 years of induction in PLAAF, we had decided to acquire it. So it did not took 10 years after which China decided to give it to us, rather just after 2 years of its induction or becoming operational with PLAAF, we were given the go ahead by the Chinese. So it may give you an idea that if we did want J-XX, it won't take 10-15 years, rather just a couple of years or so.

China has no imminent threat, but we do have, so if we request, we can get items on priority, which we saw in the past also.

And as for J-XX, we don't need hundreds of them, having 2-3 Sqds would be sufficient to counter an Indian threat initially when IAF gets the PAK FA.

So end is, that if we request and a threat is looming, we can get anything from the Chinese on priority basis, even if it has to make Chinese induction stopped for the time being.

There was no joint J-10 program, but we are getting them. So if even in J-XX we don't have a joint program, we would still be getting them.

And yeah, Chinese have the full capacity to increase production when required, which we are seeing now, with the rate of induction of J-10s. In 2004 first regiment got operational. Regiment consists of around 26 aircrafts. And as of 2010 the rough figure of J-10s in service publicly are 200+, meaning approx 40 aircrafts produced per year, which is quiet a large figure.

 

[Contrarian]

China isnt developing a 5th generation fighter 10 years after the Russians start inducting theirs.

Their engine technology is still not even close to Al-31FP. J-10 had DIRECT Russian assistance. Their engine has DIRECT Russian assistance yet it is not operational. Their radar technology is much behind Russia. There are a whole bunch of things which they are yet to do for this generation of planes let alone the next one.

Unless China shows a plane in 10 years time and starts calling it their 5th gen plane, to allow their military and others to celebrate China's 'achievement', they aren't coming out with an operational 5th gen plane for good damn time.

 

[illuminatus]

^^ Just keep your eyes open and you'll be surprised. The Chinese have been working very hard behind the scenes and will not reveal their capabilities so that people like you can keep on guessing.

 

[Kinshuk]

China isnt developing a 5th generation fighter 10 years after the Russians start inducting theirs.

Their engine technology is still not even close to Al-31FP. J-10 had DIRECT Russian assistance. Their engine has DIRECT Russian assistance yet it is not operational. Their radar technology is much behind Russia. There are a whole bunch of things which they are yet to do for this generation of planes let alone the next one.

Unless China shows a plane in 10 years time and starts calling it their 5th gen plane, to allow their military and others to celebrate China's 'achievement', they aren't coming out with an operational 5th gen plane for good damn time.

sorry offtopic..

wow over 5000 posts..

 

[Kinshuk]

^^ Just keep your eyes open and you'll be surprised. The Chinese have been working very hard behind the scenes and will not reveal their capabilities so that people like you can keep on guessing.

Lets see anything is possible,

 

[illuminatus]

Lets see anything is possible,

Possibilities are endless. Especially in the case of China. China will never reveal her best capabilities to the world. That makes perfect sense.

 

[mean_bird]

China isnt developing a 5th generation fighter 10 years after the Russians start inducting theirs.

Their engine technology is still not even close to Al-31FP. J-10 had DIRECT Russian assistance. Their engine has DIRECT Russian assistance yet it is not operational. Their radar technology is much behind Russia. There are a whole bunch of things which they are yet to do for this generation of planes let alone the next one.

Unless China shows a plane in 10 years time and starts calling it their 5th gen plane, to allow their military and others to celebrate China's 'achievement', they aren't coming out with an operational 5th gen plane for good damn time.

Sorry Malay, but thats BS at its best. Russia starts inducting theirs in 2015-17 so according to you, China won't have a 5th gen plane by 2025-27?

Firstly, you talk about things you know little about. Agreed China is an underdog and has bottlenecks in its aviation industry. Engines is "one big problem" and even official chinese sources have acknowledged and accepted it.

However, to claim they are behind in number of technologies for current gen. is rather vague unless you can provide us with comparison. Apparently, they already have an AESA radar fitted in the J-10 (according to SDF quoting different sources). I know it sounds hardly reliable but then again when did the chinese officially reveal things? So far, most fanboy stuff have come true including J-10, J-10bs, J-XX, etc.

Remember, few months back J-XX was ridiculed to be internet fanboy stuff until their General (Gen. He) actually acknowledges it and says it will "fly soon" and be with PLAAF by 2020. Given Chinese secrecy, it would be a big embarrassment if he was boasting so I do tend to take it seriously.

Lets wait and see. I expect the first prototype to be flying latest by 2012.

 

[Dazzler]

Just one hint for all friends. Last year the J-15 flying shark prototype flew and who noticed? Not many. This is how secret Chinese keep their projects. J-15 is Chinese equivalent of Russian SU-33. I am keeping my fingers crossed for the first flight of J-20 (JXX) as it might fly sooner than we thought.

 

[gogbot]

Forgive me if i sound harsh, But i wont to be frank. Don't you feel what your saying is very Naive.

FC-20 is not coming with full ToT firstly.

I heard China was just giveing you full ToT one one of their planes, there was a thread open about it a few months back

Plus, we did not needed J-10 a few years back, but once IAF started to modernize and induct more lethal platforms, countering them became an issue and PAF started to go for more bigger platforms, which led to the J-10s.

I dont understand you, What is the J-10 supposed to counter ?
India already had MKI's before then.

I thought you were just modernizing the fleet.

J-10 was supposed to be China's F-16

And if engine hadn't been an issue, we would have gotten them by now, the J-10A version.

And as for J-10, even if we had wanted to get them, engine issue was there which would have made it difficult to be obtained, as its russian engine. J-10 became fully operational just a few years ago, not 10 years ago.

can you give me any links to prove this, I know there was an Engine issue, But you had no problems with JF-17.

But PAF gave its own requirements to the Chinese and asked for a J-10 based on those requirements, which we will be getting. And that i believe you know is J-10B. The decision to get J-10 was made way back in 2005-6, when J-10 was shown to the world. Even in 2006 Musharaf was shown the production facilities too, so get the idea from that.

With a Chinese engine and avionics suite, we won't have to see any reason for delays as per past practice seen in JF-17s or even J-10s.

China will once again need new engines and avionics suits for J-XX
Needs to quality and maintainable test them

engine, Radar and Avionics all have to be more advanced. Including missiles. Its going to be challenge and going to take time. They cant just Roll it of the production line and start selling,
They need to go through the IoC, FoC. Fix the production line and quality issues, Before they can think of giving it to anyone else.

Unless they plan to sell Pakistan a plane that is still a work in progress.

Do remember, China inducted the first regiment of J-10s in 2004, and within 2 years of induction in PLAAF, we had decided to acquire it. So it did not took 10 years after which China decided to give it to us, rather just after 2 years of its induction or becoming operational with PLAAF, we were given the go ahead by the Chinese. So it may give you an idea that if we did want J-XX, it won't take 10-15 years, rather just a couple of years or so.

Exactly China saw to its needs first and then two years latter after it was confident with the aircraft enough for production to increase it choose to share with a close ally. After which Evaluations and negotiations commenced.

China has no imminent threat, but we do have, so if we request, we can get items on priority, which we saw in the past also.

So end is, that if we request and a threat is looming, we can get anything from the Chinese on priority basis, even if it has to make Chinese induction stopped for the time being.

Forgive me here , but China is making the J-xx for its needs not those of Pakistan.

They should be concerned enough that Russian USA and India are flying around in stealth aircraft. To see to their needs first before they sell to others even allies.

Not to mention Taiwan is still hot point for war.

And as for J-XX, we don't need hundreds of them, having 2-3 Sqds would be sufficient to counter an Indian threat initially when IAF gets the PAK FA.

All well and good, China still needs to have a production line capable of meeting that kind of demand before they can sell to foreign needs.

They will first see to their needs. their IOC then FOC, before sale to anyone.

There was no joint J-10 program, but we are getting them. So if even in J-XX we don't have a joint program, we would still be getting them.

I know china will sell Pakistan J-XX but the question is when.

And yeah, Chinese have the full capacity to increase production when required, which we are seeing now, with the rate of induction of J-10s. In 2004 first regiment got operational. Regiment consists of around 26 aircrafts. And as of 2010 the rough figure of J-10s in service publicly are 200+, meaning approx 40 aircrafts produced per year, which is quiet a large figure.

Of course but first.

China needs to develop, Production version. at least 8 years away at best.(unless you are telling me China is ahead of Russia)

Then it needs to get IoC, so quality production and maintained issues can be ironed out.

After FoC PLAAF needs to induct the plane is greater numbers. Till they feel they can counter their Security threats.

Then China announces to the world. PAF can then evaluate the aircraft. Negotiations will then commence.

After which orders are placed, with delivery commencing a year or two latter.

All this puts the first J-xx in Pakistani hands at best 15 years from now.