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PAC And China,s JXX/J14 Project

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:blink: Whaaaaaaaat? Hindustan Aeronautics Limited built the first military aircraft in South Asia That is ie; HF-24 Marut way back in 1961.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention we were discussing 4G aircrafts here. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

After that HAL Started the Program LCA which is getting Inducted, Sukhoi 30 MKI, The best in the Sukhoi 30 Variants,

Indian configured, Russian designed and manufactured.

Jaguar Licensed Production in India.

Refer to HF-24.

FGFA the 2 seater variant of T-50 Pak FA and Among the few nations to Research and development of Aircraft Engines And to run a stealth fighter project called MCA. .

Not out yet, don't jump the gun.

And Yet you Say We are Inferior???? You must be crazy dude....

Yes, in terms of manufacturing up to date jets. In fact, I have slightly, OK, lost my sanity A LOT recently. However, when it comes to airplanes, I believe I am still very much sane.

And In which dream of Yours did you see Pakistan building its Own aircrafts? huh?

JF-17-Typical e.g. You knew I was going to bring this up, didn't you?
 
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Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention we were discussing 4G aircrafts here. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

You should have said that before, Ok you are excused



Indian configured, Russian designed and manufactured.

If we would have done that to LCA then It would have been inducted somewhere around 2003 itself, anyways prove your point, dont come to a conclusion by some backyard talking.and anyways LCA is in production.





Not out yet, don't jump the gun.

Not jumping the gun, a guy who speaks about inferiority had to be attended with utmost superiority , thats what I did.



Yes, in terms of manufacturing up to date jets. In fact, I have slightly, OK, lost my sanity A LOT recently. However, when it comes to airplanes, I believe I am still very much sane.

You forgot the suk 30 MKI jets? Now dont say that HAL dosent manufacture those.



JF-17-Typical e.g. You knew I was going to bring this up, didn't you?

What else could you say or bring Up? JF-17 is in partnership with China... Its not there own, Just becoz PLAA rejected FC-1 or JF-17 what ever, it does not mean pakistan has full authority over it....
 
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who says China has rejected jf-17 . it is still under evaluation.
and a program which started 25 years back ant not complete yet thats what LCA is. come on, come to facts . jf-17 is a very successful project and china is considering it to replace the fleet of j-7 and j-8. only thing yet to be decided is weather to fully replace it with j-10 or mix of j-10 and jf-17.
 
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who says China has rejected jf-17 . it is still under evaluation.
and a program which started 25 years back ant not complete yet thats what LCA is. come on, come to facts . jf-17 is a very successful project and china is considering it to replace the fleet of j-7 and j-8. only thing yet to be decided is weather to fully replace it with j-10 or mix of j-10 and jf-17.

LCA has got operational clearance... and I did not mean to hurt your sentiments.. You took it in a wrong way, I was saying that PLAA is not happy with it kinda rejected it as of now... JF-17 is indeed a good fighter, no doubt about it, why go for it when they got J-10 even beter? Thats what I meant, sorry If I had hurt ur sentiments...
 
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its funny to see most of Indians saying Bangladesh , china bla bla has rejected it ... so pity ... jf-17 is in its early days and other factor is 1st aim of both PAC and CAC is to fulfill requirement of PAF ie 150 aircraft till 2015 than any one one else. same PLAAF is waiting for jf-17 to be inducted in PAF and see how it performs than decide about its future induction. plz leave the the way of prejudice and come to facts .... LCA very old project as compared to jf-17 and still if it is successful , as described recently by Indian defence minister , than its well and good . let it become operational and then see which one proves itself to be better project
 
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brother its not the matter of hurting or minding some thing .... just come to facts and also see the difference in prices j-10 40 million dollar and jf-17 15 million ..... look at that factor too .... more money more honey ... Pakistan was looking for an aircraft that would be cheap and capable .. jf-17 was right answer ... very simple now it depends upon other countries and their defence budgets ...
 
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same is for LAC 1st aim of HAL will be to fulfill requirements of IAF than any other nation .. and if i start saying LCA is rejected by other countries cos no one have placed any order than i am very big fool in my approach ...
 
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and jf-17 project was between PAC and CAC , not between PAF and PLAAF. PAF has placed order for jf-17 before any one else, because jf-17 is badly needed for PAF. to replace f-7 and old mirages and A_5............
 
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who says China has rejected jf-17 . it is still under evaluation.
and a program which started 25 years back ant not complete yet thats what LCA is. come on, come to facts . jf-17 is a very successful project and china is considering it to replace the fleet of j-7 and j-8. only thing yet to be decided is weather to fully replace it with j-10 or mix of j-10 and jf-17.

I am tierd of throwing the same kind of information on all threads related to JF17 or FC-1 "Chao Qi"(Chinese name)....

But for the sake of History :

The FC-1 "Chao Qi" is an all-weather, multipurpose light fighter aircraft. The aircraft is equipped with advanced avionics and armed with medium-range missiles. It is capable of carrying out both air-to-air and air-to-groud missions.

By 2004 this new multi-role fighter had been redesignated the Xialon (Fierce Dragon), and for Pakistan as JF-17 "Thunder". It might be designated J-9 when it becomes operational.

Super-7 (Chao Qi)
In 1986, China signed a $550 million agreement with Grumman to modernize 55 of its fleet of J-7 fighters under the so-called "Super-7" upgrade, but this agreement was canceled in early 1990, in the wake of the cooling of political relations with the West, as well as in response to a 40% increase in the cost of the project.

The "SUPER-7" was the first fighter jet completely designed and manufactured by China. Super-7 (Chao Qi) fighter is China's new generation fighter and the first of its kind of the nation's own intellectual property rights. The third-generation fighter plane, which can carry 3.8 tons of missiles, also has improved systems for attacking ground targets. Its advanced radar positioning and operating systems give the plane greater flexibility and better close-range manoeuvrability.

Development of the "Super 7" upgrade was slowed with the end of American technical assistance following the Tienanmen repression of 1989. Pakistan and China foreclosed the option of producing F-Super 7 Aircraft due to non-availability of Engines. It had been planned around MiG 27 Engine which the Russians refused to supply.

FC-1 (Fighter China 1)
As a substitute for the Super-7, China is developing the FC-1 (Fighter China 1) lightweight multipurpose fighter based on the design for the MiG-33, which was rejected by the Soviet Air Force. The FC-1 is being developed with a total investment in excess of $500 million, including support from the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), mainly for export to replace the 120 F-7M/P fighters currently in service in the Pakistani Air Force, though it is possible that the Chinese Air Force will use this aircraft as well. The deal to manufacture 150 FC-1 (Fighter China) jets was struck when General Musharraf visited China just before the Kargil war in 1998.

Chengdu Aircraft Industry Company [CAIC], based in Sichuan Province, is China's second-largest fighter production base, and the enterprise is cooperating with Pakistan's Aviation Integrated Company and Russia's Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group [MASPG] in the development of the FC-1. Israel and several European countries are being considered as suppliers for the plane's avionics. The first flight was planned for 1997 with delivery to the Pakistani Air Force scheduled for 1999.

Initially it was anticipated that the FC-1 would be a high- performance, low-cost fighter plane to supplement the F-10 air superiority fighters developed for the Chinese Air Force. These planes will be fitted with a single Klimov Design Bureau RD-93 engines. They are a more powerful version of RD-33 engines, two of which are fitted in MIG-29. The China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) tried to persuade the Chinese Air Force to use the FC-1 so as to increase the production run and reduce the unit cost. But the Chinese military has resisted, being of the view that equiping the Air Force with two types of fighter planes with similar performance within the same time period would both consume limited financial resources and complicate logistical support for dissimilar aircraft.

It is widely reported that the FC-1 is a continuation of the "MiG-33 [R33]" program developed in the 1980s. The Russian company Mikoyan OKB Design Bureau, which designs all MIG series of aircraft, sold the design of MIG-33 to the China and Pakistan. This report is the source of considerable confusion, and indeed some rather fanciful speculation. The so-called MiG-33 design used in conjunction with the FC-1 program was apparently a the poorly attested "Product 33" lightweight single-engine project of the mid-1980s. A decade later, the MiG-33 nomenclature was briefly associated with the much larger twin-engine Mig-29M. This confused history has led to observations that the "FC-1 features air inlets on the lateral sides of the fuselage rather than the ventral inlets of the MiG-33. ... the most apparent modifications to the MiG-33 design is the repositioning of the ventral fins from the engine compartment..." These supposed modifications to the mid-90s MiG-33 design actually reflect the fact that the FC-1 is an entirely difference airplane with no design relationship to the MiG-33 [MiG-29M].

These improvement in performance affected the program's costs, and if the final production order if fewer than 300 aircraft the unit price will rise from the original $10 million to $15 million.

The FC-1 was to make it's first flight in 1996, but the project was delayed when Pakistan sought to upgrade the performance characteristics of the FC-1 to respond to India's acquisition of Su-30MKIs. After several years of stagnation, the Pakistani Prime Minister's February 1998 trip to China resulted in an agreement to continue development of the fighter. At that time Pakistan was interested in acquiring at least 150 fighters, with the Chinese contemplating acquiring over 200.

The JF-17 Thunder project has been completed in a record period of four years. China National Aviation Corp officially signed the development contract for the FC-1 airplane in 1999. The project initially suffered a setback due to imposition of sanctions in 1999, which hindered acquisition of avionics and weaponry for the aircraft. The avionics had to be delinked from airframe development in 2001. China National Aviation Corp completes the detailed preliminary design in 2001 and in 2002 the company completed the detailed design structure and the system charts.

Formal production work began September 16, 2002, on the FC-1 aircraft in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province.

The FC-1 made its formal debut at China's Fourth International Air Show scheduled November 4 to 7, 2002, in Zhuhai, the nearest mainland city to Macao. China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I ) made fresh progress in 2003, with 5 planes having passed evaluation and seven new planes completed their maiden flight. "Xiaolong / FC-1", or Fierce Dragon, produced by the corporation last year was applauded as one of the "Ten Major National Scientific Events in 2003"

In July 2003 it was reported that the "SUPER-7" fighter jet was ready to take its maiden flight, although a detailed timetable was not released. China's Super-7 Fighter completed its taxiing test on July 03, 2003 at a test ground of Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC). As one of the eight major ground tests that must be completed before test flight, the taxiing test is aimed at trying the correctness of the design of electricity supply system, as well as signal connections between the electricity supply system and other external systems so as to provide important data to guarantee a successful first fly. Leiqiang, deputy director of the Chengdu Flight Group's trial flight department under the Chinese Air Force, said on Tuesday he will carry out the maiden flight task. On the day of the first flight, China Central Television (CCTV) will dispatch a special report group to broadcast the whole flight live. Leiqiang, also a "SUPER-7" pilot, and Yangwei, the jet's designer, who is also regarded as the father of "SUPER-7," will be featured on the CCTV program "Face to Face."

On 25 August 2003 the "owlet dragon" FC-1 airplane carried on the initial flight. It flews 17 minutes before it returned to the airport. The serial production of the aircraft was to begin by January 2006. The aircraft will replace the Mirage, F-16 and F-7 aircraft with the latest technology and it will meet professional requirements of the Pakistan Air Force.

FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder

Now the problem we have is that the great JF-17 project has been rechristened and revitalized in 1999...so people assume that the program is recent....... otherwise if you bother to read ....its as old as Indian LCA program.
 
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Hi

Just for my own information sake:

But only time when canard needs to move is when plane is moving, so would not the whole plane rotate anyway. (for example aircraft climbing and exposing belly).

Also canards rotate more slowly than helicopter blades.

Also how stealthy are helos such as comanche where there is rotor blades?

regards,
The helo's body is always the largest radar reflector. The rotor will contribute with its own unique characteristics. As for the canards, if their operations are any like the rear horizontal stabs they will have small movements to maintain flight stability, just like the rear horizontal stabs does.
 
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You should have said that before, Ok you are excused


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If we would have done that to LCA then It would have been inducted somewhere around 2003 itself, anyways prove your point, dont come to a conclusion by some backyard talking.and anyways LCA is in production.




Really now? How many are in production?



Not jumping the gun, a guy who speaks about inferiority had to be attended with utmost superiority , thats what I did.



FGFA is being configured by the Indians once again, not produced by them


You forgot the suk 30 MKI jets? Now dont say that HAL dosent manufacture those.



o_O Are you sure now? Double check your source.


What else could you say or bring Up? JF-17 is in partnership with China... Its not there own, Just becoz PLAA rejected FC-1 or JF-17 what ever, it does not mean pakistan has full authority over it....

Regardless, Pakistan manufactures them, and unlike India, doesn't just configure and put a number on order from China.
 
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For all those who think China has rejected the thunder, China has decided to take a dedicated attack variant of thunder that will replace the Fantans. Trials are going one for almost a year now.

Thanks
 
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You forgot the suk 30 MKI jets? Now dont say that HAL dosent manufacture those.

I thought u assembled them?



What else could you say or bring Up? JF-17 is in partnership with China... Its not there own, Just becoz PLAA rejected FC-1 or JF-17 what ever, it does not mean pakistan has full authority over it?

Actually we do.Drones besides Falco. And we also make trainer jets like K-8 which is an advancd trainer Based on a chinese jet.We also make Mushak trainer,Super mushak for recky and export them to countries like UAE,IRAN,INDONESIA,MALAYSIA etc.
About Chinese rejection people have answered your questions.Now u tell us what do u make?
 
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I read in a Chinese web that PLAAF had already decided to buy so thunders....and let me remind or should i say reproduced the words of wangrong......"The problem is not that PLAAF dosn't want to but FC-1, it is that it has not invested a single cent in the JF program so the price tag available for PLAAF is higher than PAF"
 
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Keep the discussion to the topic at hand.

For LCA and Vs competition, there are other threads available.
 
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