PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[AUSTERLITZ]

You mean T-90S as of now is without an APU or is it a new one? What happened to Swed APS they shortlisted?

Rest of the developments as you mentioned seem to make sense i.e IF Kunal is right.

Indigeneous APU.
LEDS-150 was selected,after that no one knows.But that was only for initial batch of 310.Rest will most probably have israeli APS.

 

[Dazzler]

Indigeneous APU.
LEDS-150 was selected,after that no one knows.But that was only for initial batch of 310.Rest will most probably have israeli APS.

Indigenous APU is a good development but the Swedish APS is dwindling and as you said now they are looking at Trophy most likely, delays and delays..

 

[Dazzler]

If this is the Indian ERA for Ajeya, sorry to say its too vulnerable since its just an obsolete Kontakt 1 !

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

If this is the Indian ERA for Ajeya, sorry to say its too vulnerable since its just an obsolete Kontakt 1 !

Yeah its k-1 type,but its very well covered throughout.Btw zarrar too has similar ERA with much less coverage.

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K-1 is much cheaper than k-5 and can be built indigeneously.

 

[Dazzler]

Zarrar has a pretty damn good composite armour buddy, thats why we dont see ERA too often. A composte that can withstand 7 rpg hits from different directions yet no ammunition cook off or turret blown and the crew remained unharmed is worth appreciation. Cant say the same about Ajeya though.

I was reading an article that Chinese were so impressed with Zarrar incident that they began to claim the composite as their tech. Some African delegation it was

 

[Dazzler]

this is new Al Zarrar with improved composite and side armour...

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Zarrar has a pretty damn good composite armour buddy, thats why we dont see ERA too often. A composte that can withstand 7 rpg hits from different directions yet no ammunition cook off or turret blown and the crew remained unharmed is worth appreciation. Cant say the same about Ajeya though.

Any composite armour package should shake off old RPG models ,zarrar has a protective composite package with air gap over its basic cast armour.But ur right its not that ajeya is anything special,but base armour of ajeya is much more powerful than zarrar's, with 500 mm worth composite armour,but its cast armour not welded.
None of these tanks really have some advantage in armour with respect to each other.

this is new Al Zarrar with improved composite and side armour...

Like the new armour skirts.

 

[Shiji]

The reason Al-Zarrar is so impressive:

First attack was through improvise explosive devices which resulted in destruction of the tanks and afterwards Taliban started firing at them, they say that it was very difficult for them to access the direction of the fire and strength of the enemy. Soldiers involved in this fight say that it took us some time to estimate their positions and after that we started counter attack by sending our troops to surround them. Taliban felt the heat and started second part of the attack to scatter and destroy the advance party of Pakistan army, they launched one of their front end weapon against this small advance party; suicide bombers. Because of the magnitude of this attack, one can easily describe it as the largest suicide attack in Pakistan if not the largest in the world, mounted against a small force in shuch a limited time. This attack involved at least six different vehicles and three motor bikes filled with explosives and driven by suicide bombers within short span of time of only fifteen minutes...
Crew of the destroyed Al-Zarrar MBT survived without injuries and tank was recovered as neither turret of chassis of Al-Zarrar MBT was penetrated which also proved the recent upgrade was successful

Source
And the reason T-72 is just a waste of your hard earned money:

 

[Dazzler]

Any composite armour package should shake off old RPG models ,zarrar has a protective composite package with air gap over its basic cast armour.But ur right its not that ajeya is anything special,but base armour of ajeya is much more powerful than zarrar's, with 500 mm worth composite armour,but its cast armour not welded.
None of these tanks really have some advantage in armour with respect to each other. Like the new armour skirts.

Just one correction: AZ does not have a air gap in its armour. i attended Ideas 2008 and talked to the representative who clearly mentioned it has solid composite based armour insted of air gaps.

 

[Dazzler]

The reason Al-Zarrar is so impressive:

Source
And the reason T-72 is just a waste of your hard earned money:

I overlooked the IED part. Thats very impressive for an upgraded Type-59 MBT considering how M-1 have been blown by these in Iraq and Afghanistan!!

GOSH :O

 

[Shiji]

And check the damage done to a T-72 just by one RPG-7 round that too to the frontal quarter of the turret.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

''Since then Pakistan army has been using its Al-Zarrar MBT for precision day night attack capability and recently we have been able to watch the video in which an Al-Zarrar tank was shown destroyed. Many claims have been made about the destruction of these tanks and how this will affect the moral of Pakistani army in Swat and FATA. But what was unknown until now was the fact how this tank was destroyed? It was part of small force at the front to make first contact with the militants along with force of around 35 personals of Pakistani army. It was ambushed from three sides of the mountainous road and has to face at least six suicide attack attempts within span of 15 minutes along with attacks through improvised explosive devices that were buried in their way. Crew of the destroyed Al-Zarrar MBT survived without injuries and tank was recovered as neither turret of chassis of Al-Zarrar MBT was penetrated which also proved the recent upgrade was successful. Survival of the crew form the destroyed Al-Zarrar MBT is also going to be a major moral booster for the crew as they will have more confidence in the crew protection capability of the tank. According to the soldiers participating in this furious battle fought in first week of this recent attempt by the Pakistan army to clear out the areas from Taliban militants, they were attacked from three sides by different militant groups that have divided themselves into smaller groups of four to five. First attack was through improvise explosive devices which resulted in destruction of the tanks and afterwards Taliban started firing at them, they say that it was very difficult for them to access the direction of the fire and strength of the enemy. Soldiers involved in this fight say that it took us some time to estimate their positions and after that we started counter attack by sending our troops to surround them. Taliban felt the heat and started second part of the attack to scatter and destroy the advance party of Pakistan army, they launched one of their front end weapon against this small advance party; suicide bombers. Because of the magnitude of this attack, one can easily describe it as the largest suicide attack in Pakistan if not the largest in the world, mounted against a small force in shuch a limited time. This attack involved at least six different vehicles and three motor bikes filled with explosives and driven by suicide bombers within short span of time of only fifteen minutes. Pakistani soldiers first gave them warnings to stop as they thought these were civilian vehicles, but later on they recognized the threat in time and started firing at them, most of these vehicles were destroyed but due to high speed these did at front line vehicles of this small military force. According to the commanding officer of this advance force, they were very fortunate that none of their troop involved in this operation was killed and all thirty five of them were able to survive this attack.''

No where does it describe anything about RPGs.Seven RPG?Just mentions bikes with explosives and suicide bombers,which shouldn't really bother a tank,unless they got under its belly.



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As for solid composite armour,this pic clearly shows in the turret that its hollow package not solid .

And check the damage done to a T-72 just by one RPG-7 round that too to the frontal quarter of the turret.

Which video man?Saw a few killing t-72 with latest rpg-29 .

 

[Keshav Murali]

I agree both Andrei and Gur Khan are at war for sure

at the same time, the MS version despite its glorifications and increased side armour and better electronics and relikt instead of K-5 is yet another T-90 version.

It is too early to speculate on MS but some things are so evidently clear that it still uses AZ autoloader with same original speed as the T-90S heck they could have done atleast what Czeks did with their M4CZs i.e. improve the speed and save precious time. As per my observation SO FAR, Russians have presented Indians with yet another T-90 facelift which, though an improvement over the S and M.

The autoloader is the extended version, same as the autoloader on new-build T-90A. Which can fire 3BM44M.

 

[Keshav Murali]

@Dazzler,

T-90MS components are used to upgrade T-90S and new-build T-90S will be built to MS standard. And I meant

that the above image does not show a T-90S. (T-90C is T-90S in Russian, I know. Turret is different here, so I doubt that it is a T-90S)

If it does show a T-90S, then India has received only T-90MS standard tanks.

You mean T-90S as of now is without an APU or is it a new one? What happened to Swed APS they shortlisted?

Rest of the developments as you mentioned seem to make sense i.e IF Kunal is right.

Indigenous APU is in service on Arjun. LEDS-150 was shortlisted for T-90, we don't know what happened.

And, put more faith in Kunal, he is a serving member of the forces, not armchair Generals like us.

 

[Keshav Murali]

If this is the Indian ERA for Ajeya, sorry to say its too vulnerable since its just an obsolete Kontakt 1 !

No, it uses different ERA, but still K-1 type with shaped charge initiation. We don't know if it is linear shaped charge like Noz or Duplet, but it should be way superior to K-1. It's not like we need the T-72 to stand up to DM-53 do we?

According to

1) EXPLOSIVE REACTIVE ARMOUR
2) DRDO::Life Sciences Engineering

This ERA reduces penetration of Milan 2 Tandem Warhead by 70% Compare to Noz which reduces by upto 90%.
Gets initiated by a shaped charge jet. Does not have sympathetic detonation and is safe from damage when dropped or when tank is deep-fording. And weight penalty is less than 1.5 tons. This thing is supposed to have negated hits from 105 mm HESH and APFSDS and Milan 2.

Enough for me

The reason Al-Zarrar is so impressive:

And the reason T-72 is just a waste of your hard earned money:

Yeah right. T-72M with pitiful 350 mm frontal arc protection which is hit on the side gets blown up. Compare that to Indian T-72M1 with Kanchan and K-1 ERA with 600 mm frontal protection, superior to T-72B.

Outclasses the Al-Zarrar.

What makes you think that the Al-Zarrar has a large enough armour cavity for thick integral composite armour?

T-54 is still T-54.

And Russland T-72B's took 5 or 6 hits from RPG-7 on the front hull before being struck on the side in Grozny. Without ERA.