PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[AUSTERLITZ]

oh man you are so..... i will get back to you soon

on a side note: 580 mm rod (length of rod alone) can penetrate 600-630 mm armour easily if traveling at 1700 m/s or more.

I didnt say anything about armour bins though they are improved in most mbts incuding Russkies. Ammo is less likely to catch fire than it used to before. Only M-1 has a truely seperate ammo compartment. Rest has a mix of both.

Agreed.

Still waiting for those pics

Btw i am still waiting for the operational NIaza 2 round pic on your tank,with your penetration value.Not the fake pic u posted.That won't have anything more than 450-550 mm.
On armour bins agreed.
As for 600-630 mm yes thats quite possible for latest chinese rounds,its nothing really out of the world.The earlier pic u posted on the three chinese apfsds rounds,one on the right can have that value true.But i doubt standard PA tanks use the same round as the latest chinese round on the type-99.
The truth it seems to me is that no side in question here has any rounds like DM63/M29A3 [with near 900-1000mm penetration] that can penetrate frontal armour of these tanks which when covered with ERA/composite armour blocks.Key will be tactics,flanking and hitting weak spots as weak spots and flanks can be concievably penetrated by even standard niaza 1,mango 500-550 mm rounds.

 

[Dazzler]

I showed out the official brochure pic and really life rounds. The tests you are talking about are of Russian t80u ans t90 a viladmir. Get a life man your is t90s. An export version nothing more. And by the way, the test was to test k-5 armour on the two not the composite armour.

Read differences between the two first then proceed.

Regarding naiza 2. I didn't show any pic of it. Your are getting a bit naughty now. Quoting me wrongly.

 

[Dazzler]

ThE truth is IA is at a disdvantage till they address their ammunition problems particularly. Afsds rounds. Their tank fleet is vulnerable.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I showed out the official brochure pic and really life rounds. The tests you are talking about are of Russian t80u ans t90 a viladmir. Get a life man your is t90s. An export version nothing more. And by the way, the test was to test k-5 armour on the two not the composite armour.

Read differences between the two first then proceed.

Regarding naiza 2. I didn't show any pic of it. Your are getting a bit naughty now. Quoting me wrongly.

The test is from 1999 man,.Read the date first.T-90 vladimir didn't even exist then.That test was between basic welded turret t-90 and t-80,and the test if u read carefully was done both with EAR and without ERA.
The second test that i posted was of indian t-90 version with upgraded armour that withstood KE rounds easily .Which was main selling point of the deal.If u read correctly,that t-90s on indian and russian ones are far better than other ones.Also idnian t-90 is not t-90s basic.Its modified t-90 s/m bhisma.You will see it is classified as different from t-90s basic export version.
The ones we are making now are t-90m bhismas with kanchan composite armour.

As for the round u showed it was a short stubby monoblock round,and even ofb mk-2 is equivalent or longer than that.You won't fool anyone with that fake pic as a 'enhanced penetartor'.It neither showed name as niaza-2 nor specified armour penetartion.I already showed what length would be compared to lekalo round which has rumoured 650-700mm penetration,near similar to what ur claiming with that tiny stubby round.Be realistic friend.

ThE truth is IA is at a disdvantage till they address their ammunition problems particularly. Afsds rounds. Their tank fleet is vulnerable.

Congratulate yourself on ur 'dream reality' i guess.

 

[Dazzler]

Read history of t-90 you will know the difference. I am truely bored now. But here is ur reply, the test was for Russian army induction and to test the era protection. T-90s was only for export. Live on in ur dreams.

 

[farhan_9909]

well its true IA at the moment has no round in service with penetration more than 520-530mm

Pakistan on the other hand if we take the example of Usman ansari in 2004.had a 620mm APFSDS in testing in pof

 

[Dazzler]

On October 20, 1999 extensive trials of T-80U and T-90 protection from various types of threats were conducted at TsNIIO 643a Testing Grounds. The tests involved firing large amounts of ordnance (including several versions of RPG ATGL, light and heavy ATGMs, and APFSDS rounds) at frontal projections of T-80U and T-90 MBTs both protected with Kontakt-V ERA and stripped of it.

T-80U and T-90 MBTs were represented by 3 vehicles each, one with Kontakt-V ERA, one with removed explosive packages and one reserve vehicle. For the ERA part of trials, knocked-out ERA packages were replaced after each shot.

One more T-80U MBT was used for special trials that focused on testing of Shtora-1 EOCMDAS.

The following weapons were used:

Infantry ATGLs (fired at a distance of 40m)
RPG-7 (using advanced 105mm grenade PG-7VR with a tandem warhead, pen. 650mm RHA)
RPG-26 (disposable launcher, pen. >500mm RHA)
RPG-29 (advanced 105mm launcher, pen. 750mm RHA)
ATGMs (fired at a distance of 600m)
Malyutka-2 (pen. >600mm RHA)
Metis (pen. 460mm RHA)
Konkurs (pen. 650mm RHA)
Kornet (pen. >850mm RHA)
APFSDS (fired from T-80U MBT at a distance of 1,500m, the most likely round is 3BM42)
Each weapon was fired 5 times at each target, for a total of 20 shots per weapon. The total number of shots fired during the trials thus exceeded 150.
The trials yielded the following outcome:

ATGLs
T-90: RPG-29 produced a total of 3 penetrations.
No other RPG rounds could penetrate even the stripped target.
T-80U: RPG-29 penetrated 3 times with ERA, all 5 times without ERA.
Of all other grenades, one PG-7VR penetrated the stripped target.
ATGMs
T-90: No ATGMs could penetrate the ERA-equipped target. One Kornet ATGM penetrated the stripped target.
T-80U: 2 Kornet ATGMs penetrated the ERA-equipped target, all 5 penetrated the stripped target.
No other ATGMs could penetrate.
APFSDS
T-90: ERA-equipped target could not be penetrated. Furthermore, after firing the crew entered the vehicle, activated it and was able to execute the firing sequence.
Without ERA, one round penetrated.
T-80U (data available only for stripped target): One round almost penetrated (3mm hole in the inner lining, no visible equipment damage); two penetrated to 1/2 thickness; one missed the target completely; one hit the gun.
The following pictures show the locations of impacts by ATGL RPG-29 (in red) and ATGM Kornet (in black) against ERA-equipped vehicles. Which of these hits penetrated was not disclosed.

T-90A vladmir with SHTORA, show me any T-90S with this system

T-90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DilHaiHindushtani]

I would like to know from all pakistani friends...

Why u always want to compare with India?

My Simple Ans :- both have very different motive now we are looking china not pak, but some people want self sanitisation like indian poorly trained and we are great. jaise hum west se compare karte waqt jab haarne lagte ho to bolte hai, " we are great because hamari sanskriti, history aur log mahan hai." waisa hi kuch bhai app longo ka hai

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

T-90A vladmir with SHTORA, show me any T-90S with this system

T-90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not t-90 vladimir u fool,in 1999 vladimir didn't exist.Its basic welded turret t-90a with shtora.In case u didn't know shtora can be fitted with any t-90 model,doesn't make that model a vladimir.
Vladimir came into being in 2009.This is ur knowledge on t-90.And ur asking me to look up t-90 history?

T-90 history is not a single one was lost in second chechnya ,survived seven rpg hits without any effect on one occasion.Unlike another certain russian tank.

well its true IA at the moment has no round in service with penetration more than 520-530mm

Pakistan on the other hand if we take the example of Usman ansari in 2004.had a 620mm APFSDS in testing in pof

In testing even we have new round ,610mm one 125 mm.And 650-680 mm under development for arjun mk2.For standard operational rounds both sides have about 500-550 mm penetration rounds.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Not t-90 vladimir u fool,in 1999 vladimir didn't exist.Its basic welded turret t-90a with shtora.In case u didn't know shtora can be fitted with any t-90 model,doesn't make that model a vladimir.
Vladimir came into being in 2009.This is ur knowledge on t-90.And ur asking me to look up t-90 history?

Vladmir was introduced in 99 genius which by the way is much superior to your export version T-90S...... and the pic he posted... which you called t-72 chasis etc is a indian t-90s bhisma... as for ur so called AMK 340 ... do you know how big screw up it was?indian army had to destroy 150 million $ worth ammo... thts 7 bln indian rs..? and here you are claiming about mk-2 without any proof?also on indian t-90s there is no APS... forget shotra..

T-90 history is not a single one was lost in second chechnya ,survived seven rpg hits without any effect on one occasion.Unlike another certain russian tank.

which at tht time was considered superior to t-90..and ukrainians further evolved it..

In testing even we have new round ,610mm one 125 mm.And 650-680 mm under development for arjun mk2.For standard operational rounds both sides have about 500-550 mm penetration rounds.

Forget the guy... didnt i also post a source abt Naiza II with a penetration power of over 650mm? also the Tungston round @Dazzler posted had same or more penetration power... hell its older version had a penetration power of 550-560+..

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Vladmir was introduced in 99 genius which by the way is much superior to your export version T-90S...... and the pic he posted... which you called t-72 chasis etc is a indian t-90s bhisma... as for ur so called AMK 340 ... do you know how big screw up it was?indian army had to destroy 150 million $ worth ammo... thts 6 bln indian rs..? and here you are claiming about mk-2 without any proof?also on indian t-90s there is no APS... forget shotra..



which at tht time was considered superior to t-90..and ukrainians further evolved it..




Forget the guy... didnt i also post a source abt Naiza II with a penetration power of over 650mm? also the Tungston round @Dazzler posted had same or more penetration power... hell its older version had a penetration power of 550-560+..

In russian service yes even t-90a model is called vladimir.
And later t-90m model is also called vladimir.
Only t-90ms is tagil.So confusion on my part.Accepted.
The t-90 model that took part in these trials were basic t-90A with welded turret and shtora fitted.These are same tanks that were fited minus shtora to india for first batch 310.

The indian t-90s is not the usual export model genius.Indian t-90s bhisma is different model to basic t-90s model with modified armour.This is the version that stood trials in idnia and performed excellently against KE penetrators that led to orders for 347 more and license production of 1000.
The ones rolling out of our factories t-90m bhisma use kanchan composites.

What i said t-72 chassis IS t-72b ,which was renamed as earliest versions of t-90.It has 1980s cast turret.
First indian 310 batch Indian t-90s have new welded turret that withstood these trials in 1999.Welded turret has 30-50% greater defense rating and way more composites.
The second batch of 347 and indigeneous manufacture t-90m bhismas are further modified in turrets and also use kanchan for the locally manufactured ones.This is why there is significant weight difference between t-72b/t-90cast turret and latest t-90m bhisma of around 8 tonnes which mostly went to armour and modified turret.
As for APS yes they don't carry shtora which disappointed in trails.LEDS-150 was selected and is being procured.

2.WAS.During cast turret era when t-72 was low end mbt and t-80 high end.After war russian army decided no more of it.They switched to t-90.And results of trials even with earlier version of t-90 proves t-90 has better armour.Sure ukraine upgarded it,as if t-90 was not upgraded.No one is standing still.

3.You people have blabbered on long enough about niaza 2 'enhanced penetrator' which is supposedly operational.All i got was a fake pic of short stubby monoblock round similar to mango.The only thing i have heard of about niaza 2 is its round under development for AK-2.Far from operational.For development even our new 125 mm round and new arjun round with 650-680 mm is under development for mk2.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The t-90 model that took part in these trials were basic t-90A with welded turret and shtora fitted.These are same tanks that were fited minus shtora to india for first batch 310.

Again something @Dazzler pointed out.. T-90S is not T-90A/Vladmir... T-90S is an earlier export version...

The indian t-90s is not the usual export model genius.Indian t-90s bhisma is different model to basic t-90s model with modified armour.This is the version that stood trials in idnia and performed excellently against KE penetrators that led to orders for 347 more and license production of 1000.
The ones rolling out of our factories t-90m bhisma use kanchan composites.

India didnt order t-90m... only t-90s... probably "modified" because of the issues it faced in dessert conditions...

What i said t-72 chassis IS t-72b ,which was renamed as earliest versions of t-90.It has 1980s cast turret.
First indian 310 batch Indian t-90s have new welded turret that withstood these trials in 1999.Welded turret has 30-50% greater defense rating and way more composites.
The second batch of 347 and indigeneous manufacture t-90m bhismas are further modified in turrets and also use kanchan for the locally manufactured ones.This is why there is significant weight difference between t-72b/t-90cast turret and latest t-90m bhisma of around 8 tonnes which mostly went to armour and modified turret.

Dazzler has pretty much summed up everything..

As for APS yes they don't carry shtora which disappointed in trails.LEDS-150 was selected and is being procured.

Been hearing tht since 2009... and the sources are blogs... yet after 4 years... nothing...

2.WAS.During cast turret era when t-72 was low end mbt and t-80 high end.After war russian army decided no more of it.They switched to t-90.And results of trials even with earlier version of t-90 proves t-90 has better armour.Sure ukraine upgarded it,as if t-90 was not upgraded.No one is standing still.

Not really... the basic t-90 n t-80 used the same gun,armour? etc... the major issue was the gas turbine engine... which wasnt fuel efficient or reliable... again you might wanna check out T-80UD specs..

3.You people have blabbered on long enough about niaza 2 'enhanced penetrator' which is supposedly operational.

He provided you sources... so did i... heck you wont even see Naiza 1 on POF website..

All i got was a fake pic of short stubby monoblock round similar to mango.The only thing i have heard of about niaza 2 is its round under development for AK-2.Far from operational

Thts a new tungston round... not naiza II (which by the way is in service) ........and hope you know the older round had a penetration power of 550mm... and this one is 30+% improved... hence much more penetration power... as for short stubby etc... dazzler again answered you about it..

For development even our new 125 mm round and new arjun round with 650-680 mm is under development for mk2.

Sure... with israelis out... and a disaster like AMK ... which cost you 7 bin rps in the past... im sure it is...

 

[Nishan_101]

Only PA has some 600 Al-Khalid which are given some upgrades to be called Al-Khalid-Is. Though there are no news of AK-IIs only some suppositions.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Only PA has some 600 Al-Khalid which are given some upgrades to be called Al-Khalid-Is. Though there are no news of AK-IIs only some suppositions.

Please dude dont post in such threads... ur welcome in stupid and funny or naswar thread.

 

[Keshav Murali]

My work? I'm flattered!

LOL, it looks crappy, let me remake it this weekend.