Over100 US air sorties confront over 300 Chinese air sorties in east China sea.

[VCheng]

First they laughed at you "Chinese can't build shit"；
Then they mocked you "Chinese can only build shit";
Then they were getting salty "Chinese copy/steal Western Tech" ;
Then they became insecure "China is a threat";
Then what........?

Then this: We took care of the threat.

there are always exceptions to the rule.
like it or not, Western technology is way ahead of any other technology in the world.

Oh come now. The Chinese Space Shuttle has a perfect safety record. 100% perfect.

Oh wait.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The fact is Western technologies are not perfect either, in fact nothing made by human is "Perfect". Otherwise，how are you going to explain Space Shuttle disasters and multi delays of Artemis 1st launch due to leaking on SLS rocket?

Bro, stand up and stand tall.

now you going to list me accidents and failures? like I said there are always exceptions to the rule. Space Shuttle was ahead of its time.
it made so many missions successfully speaks of the ingenuity and technical prowess of Western engineers and scientists its a shame that such tragedies happened but the causes were found and lessons learned. even the F22 initially met accident but now its the undisputed father of all jet fighters and can make any rival airforce its bitch... wait why am I even debating that.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I think it was a case of a Taiwan dialling 1-800-call daddy

East China Sea. Could be Korea and Japan.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Then this: We took care of the threat.



Oh come now. The Chinese Space Shuttle has a perfect safety record. 100% perfect.

Oh wait.

exactly it will remain like that because it never took off.

now these geniuses are listing the mishaps and accidents in America or Western Europe as a proof that there is something wrong with Western technology. my point is that its a constant process of improvement and every accident was investigated and became a subject case to avoid similar incidents in future.

I can counter with the the Blackbird of the late cold war era deign which is still the fastest record holder reconnaissance plane with flawless record but I have nothing more to say,
the results speak for themselves.

copying, reverse engineering and spying on deigns may help China jump through many technological hurdles but fact remains that the original source will always be light years ahead.

Engine reliability is determined by flight hours.

US engines can survive 10,000+ hours before being replaced, which is probably thousands more than any Chinese engine.

or Russian engine for that matter.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Wealthy nation not opt for Chinese fighter is more due to political issue than capabilities. You expect NATO nations to buy Chinese fighter plane or non NATO like Japan or India to buy Chinese arms?

In other words China has gotten nowhere politically in the last 70 years?

 

[LeGenD]

100 US fighters vs 300 Chinese fighters => Not happening

100 sorties by US fighter vs 300 sorties by Chinese fighter => Exactly

View attachment 896561

The most reasonable guess is about a few dozen American fighters and a few dozen Chinese fighters, making many sorties in a few days.

I would appreciate your help in correcting this thread if there was misreading of a source.

 

[VCheng]

exactly it will remain like that because it never took off.

now these geniuses are listing the mishaps and accidents in America or Western Europe as a proof that there is something wrong with Western technology. my point is that its a constant process of improvement and every accident was investigated and became a subject case to avoid similar incidents in future.

I can counter with the the Blackbird of the late cold war era deign which is still the fastest record holder reconnaissance plane with flawless record but I have nothing more to say,
the results speak for themselves.

copying, reverse engineering and spying on deigns may help China jump through many technological hurdles but fact remains that the original source will always be light years ahead.

Blazing new trails always exacts a price from the leader. Followers have the chance to learn from those who lead. That is always how it works. US technology is not perfect, but whatever faults are found are rectified, and slowly the products improve. This is the way to progress, regardless of anyone else might think, least of all the commiebots here.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Blazing new trails always exacts a price from the leader. Followers have the chance to learn from those who lead. That is always how it works. US technology is not perfect, but whatever faults are found are rectified, and slowly the products improve. This is the way to progress, regardless of anyone else might think, least of all the commiebots here.

People talk about innovation but then you see "new" aircraft carriers that look like old US aircraft carriers..."new" helicopters that look like old US helicopters..."new" drones that look like old US drones..."new" rockets that look like old US rockets..."new" this that looks like old US that.

I mean does everybody have to walk up the same trail to get to the top of Mt Everest that Edmund Hillary did. Geez if he didn't scout it out would people be afraid to even start walking? I guarantee you there is an alternate route...just need some risk takers to get off the worn path to check it out.

Why are we the ones making VTOL planes like this

or stuff like this

 

[Dungeness]

now you going to list me accidents and failures? like I said there are always exceptions to the rule. Space Shuttle was ahead of its time.
it made so many missions successfully speaks of the ingenuity and technical prowess of Western engineers and scientists its a shame that such tragedies happened but the causes were found and lessons learned. even the F22 initially met accident but now its the undisputed father of all jet fighters and can make any rival airforce its bitch... wait why am I even debating that.

Because you claimed Western Technologies are "Perfect", then you tried to justify why Western technologies are not perfect. You are literally debating with yourself.

 

[VCheng]

People talk about innovation but then you see "new" aircraft carriers that look like old US aircraft carriers..."new" helicopters that look like old US helicopters..."new" drones that look like old US drones..."new" rockets that look like old US rockets..."new" this that looks like old US that.

I mean does everybody have to walk up the same trail to get to the top of Mt Everest that Edmund Hillary did.

It's okay. As long as they remain a few decades behind us, it is all good.

 

[LeGenD]

Every country that is able to produce advanced technologies earns respect for it.

WE - Pakistani - are among the most likely to respect Chinese technological advances. WE can see it ourselves.

It is sensible to be pragmatic, and to give credit where due.

However, those who look down upon pioneer(s) of countless technologies, are not being constructive. Sheeps can be fooled but not those with knowledge of history and how things work in life.

Looking down upon American technological achievements? Really? Simply open your damn laptop and have a good look at its components. Please stop wasting our time with lame boasts.

People talk about innovation but then you see "new" aircraft carriers that look like old US aircraft carriers..."new" helicopters that look like old US helicopters..."new" drones that look like old US drones..."new" rockets that look like old US rockets..."new" this that looks like old US that.

I mean does everybody have to walk up the same trail to get to the top of Mt Everest that Edmund Hillary did. Geez if he didn't scout it out would people be afraid to even start walking? I guarantee you there is an alternate route...just need some risk takers to get off the worn path to check it out.

Why are we the ones making VTOL planes like this

or stuff like this

I have to admit. This is correct.

 

[SQ8]

It's okay. As long as they remain a few decades behind us, it is all good.

And what they don’t seem to understand is that it isn’t an IQ(touted all the time by Chinese internet paid propagandists ) or resources (touted all the time) or industry(touted all the time). It’s culture - plain, out of the box thinking culture which is not part of Chinese society due to the nature of the political system and the educational environment it created in the last century. China may very well have more smarter people than America, more resources, more industrialized and so on. But if the system isn’t focused on innovation of new ideas but renovation of existing ideas then the output will always remain behind.

That isn’t to say there aren’t innovative people or innovative products out of China - but because the culture doesn’t encourage it at large these are outliers and cannot change the status quo as fast as it is done in the US. Those Chinese that are innovating many have backgrounds from US universities (where they do excel and there are many of them) and take that culture back home(but that also becomes a threat to the CCP in some cases).

All the citing of Space Shuttle failures and others simply ignore (as @Irfan Baloch rightly points out) that these were done 40 years before anyone in China ever did anything similar. I don’t consider it a judgement on the Chinese people because after being oppressed by the British for eons and then starvation the Chinese had barely begun rebuilding knowledge when Mao purged many of their brightest and lost them decades there.

Meanwhile America was busy accepting anyone including runaway Chinese scientists from Mao so long as they were willing to contribute knowledge and advance technology in the military space(and by inference the civilian sector).
I am comfortable saying most “American” ideas aren’t American. Because America is a land of immigrants - its rocketry is began at home but was advanced by Germans(for that matter so did the Russians) , it learned about jet engines from the brits and descendants of immigrants built everything from Infrared sensors to the internet. But that is what makes America unique - it takes in the world… including Chinese who built the American railroad’s foundation and are a part and participle of American life along with people from all over the globe.
In a way, China isn’t competing with America - it is competing with everyone else around and world and its own sons/daughters. So long as America has that character, it will be unbeatable. Russia had the right idea to try and break that social framework by pushing xenophobic ideas through American social networks - that has stalled for now.

So while that 40-50 year gap has been reduced greatly by China to maybe a 10-20 year gap. But it will remain because at the end that new innovation hasn’t come out yet as that culture change still is stymied by the system. It is visible in places like E-hang and other companies that took initial ideas from the west and really made working products around them. It’s visible in the applications of ideas in transportation and infrastructure that were thought up 20 years ago in western universities and think tanks but only really applied and built in China. But that purely Chinese idea - something only China could think of and built is yet to be applied en masse especially in defense.

China’s best weapon against America isn’t the J-20 or a space station - its TikTok and making the next American generation more stupid and obese.

 

[RescueRanger]

Every country that is able to produce advanced technologies earns respect for it.

WE - Pakistani - are among the most likely to respect Chinese technological advances. WE can see it ourselves.

It is sensible to be pragmatic, and to give credit where due.

However, those who look down upon pioneer(s) of countless technologies, are not being constructive. Sheeps can be fooled but not those with knowledge of history and how things work in life.

Looking down upon American texhnological achievements? Really? Open your damn laptop and have a good look at its components. Stop wasting our time with lame boasts.


I have to admit. This is correct.

I have an example of this, a friend works for Askari Guards as a site manager, retired army officer. He states back in 08 when Chinese Engineers came to Pakistan to work on core drilling for microhydel work, they were provided accommodation in an Army Guest House.

The Chinese brought with them their own TV which they were very proud of, my friend states that one of the managers started teasing the Chinese engineer about the quality of the Chinese TV vs Sony. The engineer, got up, opened the back of his TV and showed some components, and simply said...

You see this part, this part is the same one in my humble Chinese TV as the one you will find in the top of the range Sony TV, you know why? Because we make this part FOR Sony...



That was in 08... China has come a long way; I mean just look at this:

Remember when Chinese smartphones first flooded the Pakistani market and were made with cheap plastics and had awful cameras and poor screen resolution but full of gimmicks such as TV tuners etc... And everyone said Chinese phones will never catch on, and Sony Ericson and Blackberry's were all the rage?

Fastforward to 2022:

Chinese smartphones now rival traditional flagship brands such as Samsung and Apple.

Similarly, the west has been in the tech sector for many, many years... Their innovation from this:

To this:

Should not be rubbished so easily because of national bravado.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Because you claimed Western Technologies are "Perfect", then you tried to justify why Western technologies are not perfect. You are literally debating with yourself.

oh no you got me. by listing the accidents. where did these accidents took the Western technology to? oblivion , copying and spying or constantly opening new frontiers?
don't get me wrong though it takes a genius dedication and a cold barrel of type 56 on the neck to work hard and replicate American technology of the 70s ad 80s and end up with something functional.

I will be first to celebrate Chinese own original technological achievement if and when that happens in my lifetime. until them I am waiting for the American Sixth generation fighter jet to be made public soon that has a directional energy based weapon system.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

It's okay. As long as they remain a few decades behind us, it is all good.

For some silly reason this video comes to mind.

It basically was a bunch of gamers seeing who could get to the end the fastest. It shows the evolution of strategies where people didn't simply assume the first strategy was the best because it worked really well. They thought as far out of the box as they could to beat the record. In the end the best strategy didn't look at all like the initial one.

1997 30 seconds

2019 19 seconds!