Osama Bin Laden 'SHAHEED'? PM Imran Khan Speech in National Assembly

[HAIDER]

You contradicted yourself in one sentence.

You prove me right.

 

[Death Professor]

All those who consider him a ‘Hero’ are welcome but I maintain my view that OBL was a ‘Terrorist’

good. We all have to die, how can one be so certain about him being a "hero" or a "terrorist". just because Americans said so? So now americans are dictating who is a jihadi and who is a terrorist?
.....
In Islamabad, a Taliban official at the Afghan Embassy said Mr. bin Laden was ready to give himself up, if the United States provided evidence of his involvement in the attacks in the United States.

Suhail Shaheen, the deputy ambassador, said of Mr. bin Laden: ''He said, 'I am not involved in this terrorist action. I am a guest in Afghanistan. But if they have evidence, I am ready for a trial.' '' The diplomat added, ''We are telling the Americans, if he has violated his commitment, please prove it.''

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/...ing-bin-laden-but-us-rejects-clerics-bid.html
.....

OBL should never have been called ‘Shaheed’ by Imran Khan.

well he can call him whatever he wants, you literally just said:

All those who consider him a ‘Hero’ are welcome but I maintain my view that OBL was a ‘Terrorist’

Who elected OBL?. Just because Pakistan or the Saudi state hang criminals does not give a self-styled leader the right to start beheading anyone he labels as a criminal.

So now we are talking about nation states, ok so who elected Al e Saud to be rulers of Saudi state? Taliban united the country and formed the government. After the they had to sort out their hierarchical position themselves. We(Pakistan) already recognized their rule, till 9/11, when we rescinded our diplomatic recognition on the obvious pressure from US.

However, during my discussions with the conspiracy theorists, which include a few of my friends, I am often confronted with the argument that these people are/were fighting for Islam and most of the claims by the Western & Western-sponsored media are false. I cannot reply to the one who insists that it is dark outside in the middle of the day when the sun is shining brightly.

Well thats totally on you, they can say the exact same thing about you, and it would be equally true to them as it is true to you about them. It's all about narratives, what narrative you believe determines whether you can claim one to be a jihadi or not. Example, a person like "you" who already believed western narrative would totally ignore this, but I can't because I believe in another narrative. What actually is the truth, no one knows for sure, Allahu A'alam

Now you can brush it off, like slip of tongue or whatever, but it would be same as "I cannot reply to the one who insists that it is dark outside in the middle of the day when the sun is shining brightly". Basically in the end its all about belief. One can believe he died long ago, or one can believe a duplicate of OBL died in Pakistan with total support from Pakistan or one can believe he died in Pakistan without the knowledge or help from Pakistan. You think Pakistani establishment was this incompetent that an American chopper crashes and the American soldiers stay in "OBL location for good 20-40 mins" and some how our establishment didn't knew about it? Btw, do tell why wasn't he presented into a courtroom? Why wasn't the justice properly served? was his body thrown in water or pieces of his body were scattered over Tora bora? In end as I said before it's all about belief and narratives.

No matter what these terrorists do, there are many in Pakistan who have a soft spot for the terrorists,

No one has a soft spot for terrorists, but when you are putting TTP and Afghan taliban on the same page, its not fair to thousands martyred while defending their country(Afghanistan) from an external force. Next you are going to claim the freedom fighters in Kashmir are terrorists too, what line is being towed here? Believe the western media or the Indian media if you want but don't drag every one into it, just because you don't believe the opposite narrative it becomes a "conspiracy theory". The game is being played and its not about a single individual or single country, its the past, present and the future. If one can't look holistically past certain individuals then its pointless, the actions of global powers are for dominance and the actions of smaller countries/governments are for survival. We all make our choice and every choice has its repercussions.

there are many in Pakistan who have a soft spot for the terrorists, be it Al-Qaida, TTP or Lashkar Jhangvi etc.

Also every country has its proxies, they serve a purpose but you putting Afghan Taliban/Al-Qaida in the same league as TTP is not fair, they had a recognized government unlike these other organizations. Also not a TTP sympathizer but when you drone bomb Pak-Afghan border, you should expect some retaliation. The innocents are killed as collateral and the whole thing snowballs. Why stop drone strikes if it was helping our cause? The fact is it wasn't, it was only worsening the situation. TTP was the outcome of that and PTM is their next response. Sure it would be field day for agencies like RAW, you literally gave them the fire they needed to sprinkle their kerosene on, with your diplomacy and allegiances. All we had to do was stay out of this mess, but our establishment made a wrong decision that time, and now we are correcting it.

Editing by Nick Macfie

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southasia-attacks/new-al-qaeda-wing-in-south-asia-claims-major-attack-idUSKBN0HC0YS20140917

Again, you are highlighting the effect not the cause. How many taliban related incidents/activities happened in Pakistan or Pak-Afghan border before 9/11? When you put your hands in mud the result is they will become dirty. As I wrote before, we(our establishment) made a mistake and we reaped the results. Things are improving now, and we are on the right course now.
......
After the announcement of guarantees for a complete withdrawal of foreign forces and timeline in the presence of international witnesses, and guarantees and the announcement in the presence of international witnesses that Afghan soil will not be used against the security of the United States and its allies, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will start intra-Afghan negotiations with Afghan sides on March 10, 2020, which corresponds to Rajab 15, 1441 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Hoot 20, 1398 on the Hijri Solar calendar.

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/up...or-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf
.......


Again I would like to state, OBL is/was a dead issue and totally irrelevant. We have more serious issues right now on our Eastern border.

 

[Pakistani sipahi]

Well , I will put it in a simple manner and see who understands ...

It cannot be said that Taliban are Mujahideen and OBL is a terrorist.
Either both of them are Mujahideen or both Terrorist .

 

[Vapnope]

All those who consider him a ‘Hero’ are welcome

All who consider him a hero are terror apologists and should be watched by LEAs. We have terrorist sympathizers in Pakistan.

Not surprising. Imran Khan is a Pakistani after all

Don't comment here pls. You are bringing down the collective IQ of this group to double digits. Go somewhere else with your bullshit.

 

[Prince Kassad]

Kya baat hai, I thought he was Army's choice, turned out to be raw agent

 

[monitor]

For those who don't want to go through the whole speech and don't understand Urdu, here's a rough translation (from 44 minutes on):

"The amount of humiliation Pakistan has had to endure by becoming a partner of the US in the US war on terror is unprecedented. It didn't matter what Pakistan did, we were blamed and humiliated for US failures in Afghanistan.

There are two events that were shameful for Pakistan, that we are ashamed of. The first is that the US came into Pakistan and killed Osama Bin Laden in Abottabad ... martyred him. What happened after that? The entire world abused us .. called us evil. Our own ally intruded into Pakistan and killed someone and didn't inform us despite the fact that we have lost 70,000 Pakistanis in their war on terror.

The second thing to be ashamed of, the drone attacks in Pakistan ..."

For those trying to understand Imran Khan on this, keep in mind his consistent and vociferous opposition to Pakistan becoming part of the US WoT, deploying Pakistani forces in FATA and the drone attacks, since the US invasion of Afghanistan.

IK has always spoken in favor of dialog and negotiations, even in FATA, to address the issues there. In his view, FATA and Swat would not have become the hotbeds of terrorism that they did had it not been for Pakistan joining the US War on Terror. Whether you agree or disagree with that position, it is one that he strongly believes in.

IK isn't in support of terrorism, he just has a different point of view on how things should have been handled in Pakistan and Afghanistan post 9/11 attacks.

A single word bringing unnecessary cause for Pakistan . why He need to bring that dead chapter live again ?

 

[ARMalik]

IK is a trouble maker and wants to create such dramas to distract from the real issues of the country. There is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION for him to even mention OBL in his speech. He should be ashamed of himself as he is a Disgrace.

 

[Amaa'n]

OBL was a globally designated terrorist, his organization AQ is a terrorist group. Let there be no doubt, cannot allow people to take side with them & be the devil's advocate here on the forum

 

[Morpheus]

OBL was a globally designated terrorist, his organization AQ is a terrorist group. Let there be no doubt, cannot allow people to take side with them & be the devil's advocate here on the forum

Do you consider the same for Hafiz Saeed? Zero evidence presented against him, but he designated a terrorist. OBL designated terrorist based on evidence that US only has. Taken out without a trial. The issue is not about whether he was a terrorist or not. But rather, a country thousands of kilometer away can one day just designate someone a terrorist without sharing any evidence, and the world has to follow it. This is the same country the said they had evidence of WMD in Iraq, and till this day haven't shared that evidence with any country. In fact, they came out and said there was no WMD, after killing millions of people.

 

[Death Professor]

Honorable Death Professor,

Yes I do know the difference between Afghan Taliban, TTP & Al-Qaida but anyone who truly believes that these organizations are not linked is seriously mistaken. To the best of my info, Al-Qaeda is still a banned organization in Pakistan.

"Lashkar Jhangvi responsible for the attack on PNS Mehran had close links with Al-Qaeda as mention the UN Security Council Resolution. Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ) was listed on 3 February 2003 pursuant to paragraphs 1 and 2 of resolution 1390 (2002) as being associated with Al-Qaida, Usama bin Laden or the Taliban for “participating in the financing, planning, facilitating, preparing or perpetrating of acts or activities by, in conjunction with, under the name of, on behalf or in support of”, “supplying, selling or transferring arms and related materiel to” or “otherwise supporting acts or activities of” Al-Qaida (QDe.004) and the Taliban.

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/sanctions/1267/aq_sanctions_list/summaries/entity/lashkar-i-jhangvi-(lj)

This the same Lashkar Jhangvi that was responsible for attacking PNS Mehran

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/20...olved-in-pns-mehran-attack/?printType=article

Al-Qaida had also been linked to the bombing of Marriot Hotel, Islamabad and also on the Sri Lankan cricket team.

“Al Qaeda leader accused of Marriott Hotel bombing killed in Afghanistan: US”

https://www.business-standard.com/a...-killed-in-afghanistan-us-117032600072_1.html

The most daring action by Al-Qaida was the attempted hijack of “PNS Zulfiqar” in 2014.

“Dockyard attackers planned to hijack Navy frigate
Fahim Zaman | Naziha Syed AliUpdated September 13, 2014


"KARACHI: While the Navy continues to remain tight-lipped about the attack on its dockyard in West Wharf on Sept 6, having issued a bare-bones statement 48 hours after the incident, further details have been obtained by Dawn that reveal the extent of radicalisation within the Navy.

According to informed sources, the attack was carried out entirely by serving Navy personnel, along with Owais Jakharani, a former Navy cadet who could have been given access inside without too much trouble.

It seems the intention was to hijack PNS Zulfiqar [a frigate purchased from China and inducted in July 2009],” said one of these sources. “The group of would-be hijackers, led by a senior officer, was even saluted by the guard at the bottom of the gangway, before another became suspicious of their intentions and alerted other personnel”

Full story at https://www.dawn.com/news/1131654

This is how Reuters reported it.

“New al Qaeda wing in South Asia claims major attack”

Maria Golovnina

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Al Qaeda’s South Asia wing has claimed responsibility for hijacking a Pakistani naval ship and trying to use it to fire rockets at U.S. vessels in the Arabian Sea, in the first major assault by the newly created group.

Pakistan Navy personnel keep guard near the Navy ship PNS Zulfiqar after it returned to Karachi June 23, 2011. REUTERS/Stringer

The SITE monitoring service quoted its spokesman, Usama Mahmoud, as saying a group of militants had succeeded in seizing control of the Pakistani frigate PNS Zulfiqar and tried to use it to attack nearby U.S. vessels.

“These mujahideen had taken control of the Pakistani ship, and they were advancing towards the American fleet when the Pakistani army stopped them,” he said.

“As a result, the mujahideen, the lions of Allah and benefactors of the Ummah, sacrificed their lives for Allah, and the Pakistani soldiers spoiled their hereafter by giving up their lives in defense of the enemies of the Ummah the Americans.”

SITE said Mahmoud’s statement also provided a picture and a detailed layout of the PNS Zulfiqar.

The navy and the army’s press wing were not immediately available for comment.

The naval yard on Pakistan’s Arabian Sea coast is a strategically important facility at the center of U.S.-Pakistani security, anti-terrorism and anti-trafficking cooperation.

The foiled attack comes at a time when regional powers are already concerned about stability as U.S.-led forces continue to withdraw from neighboring Afghanistan, potentially creating a security gap for insurgents to exploit.

The attack, which lasted several hours, also shows just how much the Islamist militants are capable of striking at the heart of Pakistan’s vast security apparatus and raises questions about the nuclear-armed nation’s ability to guard its installations.

The Pakistani Taliban, closely allied with al Qaeda, had earlier said that the Sept. 6 attack was carried out with the help of insiders. Pakistan later arrested a number of navy personnel on suspicion of collaborating with the attackers.

Al Qaeda announced the formation of the new group on Sept. 4, with its chief, Ayman al-Zawahri, promising to spread Islamic rule and “raise the flag of jihad” across South Asia, home to more than 400 million Muslims.

Analysts say the move is part of al Qaeda’s plan to take advantage of the planned withdrawal of U.S.-led forces from Afghanistan and boost its influence in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region as well as India.

It also comes against the backdrop of a full-scale operation launched by Pakistan’s military against Taliban militants in the lawless region of North Waziristan following a deadly attack on the airport in the city of Karachi in June.

Editing by Nick Macfie

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southasia-attacks/new-al-qaeda-wing-in-south-asia-claims-major-attack-idUSKBN0HC0YS20140917


I had already read the blog by Imran Khan Riaz on YouTube before you posted it. I was not in the least bit surprised by its content. No matter what these terrorists do, there are many in Pakistan who have a soft spot for the terrorists, be it Al-Qaida, TTP or Lashkar Jhangvi etc., the list includes many in the media, bureaucrats, politicians (IMO Imran Khan too) and also in the armed services else the attack on Musharraf, PAF Karma/Minhas, PNS Mehran, and Pak Army HQ in Rawalpindi could not have succeeded.

However, during my discussions with the conspiracy theorists, which include a few of my friends, I am often confronted with the argument that these people are/were fighting for Islam and most of the claims by the Western & Western-sponsored media are false. I cannot reply to the one who insists that it is dark outside in the middle of the day when the sun is shining brightly.

I am not going to compare the actions of a 'State' with the actions of an individual. It is true that the USA and the Soviet Union had been acting like two bullies during the cold war era and the USA alone after the fall of communism. Modi is doing the same now. Primarily because these leaders represent their nation. Who elected OBL?. Just because Pakistan or the Saudi state hang criminals does not give a self-styled leader the right to start beheading anyone he labels as a criminal.

All those who consider him a ‘Hero’ are welcome but I maintain my view that OBL was a ‘Terrorist’ who was in Pakistan illegally. In addition to severely causing harm to Pakistan State; his presence put Pakistan in an extremely embarrassing situation. OBL should never have been called ‘Shaheed’ by Imran Khan.

Sorry mate, my response got deleted but I did reply to each and every one of your points in the best of capacity, unfortunately you wouldn't be able to read it. For this I have to apologize, I was instigated by some random ___ and my comments got derailed in those responses. My bad for falling to an obvious instigation. it got revoked.

 

[Amaa'n]

Is this about US or OBL being a terrorist?

Do you consider the same for Hafiz Saeed? Zero evidence presented against him, but he designated a terrorist. OBL designated terrorist based on evidence that US only has. Taken out without a trial. The issue is not about whether he was a terrorist or not. But rather, a country thousands of kilometer away can one day just designate someone a terrorist without sharing any evidence, and the world has to follow it. This is the same country the said they had evidence of WMD in Iraq, and till this day haven't shared that evidence with any country. In fact, they came out and said there was no WMD, after killing millions of people.

Sorry mate, my response got deleted but I did reply to each and every one of your points in the best of capacity, unfortunately you wouldn't be able to read it. For this I have to apologize, I was instigated by some random ___ and my comments got derailed in those responses. My bad for falling to an obvious instigation.

Let me un delete that comment for @niaz sir

 

[Morpheus]

Is this about US or OBL being a terrorist?

Both are linked don't you think. One day OBL hero to USA people the next day he is terrorist. US is like crazy person when it comes to declaring someone a terrorist. Why are we looking up to USA when it comes to designating who is a terrorist and who isn't. The actions alone in Iraq should amounts to USA being designated a terrorist state. If we ignore that, does that means 3k USA civilians killed in 9/11 = over 2.4 Millions of Iraqi civilians. Are US lives worth more then others? Any investigation into these results in sanctions by USA. Should we allow such a country to designate anyone a terrorist? Are they morally in the correct to declare anyone a terrorist?

 

[Amaa'n]

Both are linked don't you think. One day OBL hero to USA people the next day he is terrorist. US is like crazy person when it comes to declaring someone a terrorist. Why are we looking up to USA when it comes to designating who is a terrorist and who isn't. The actions alone in Iraq should amounts to USA being designated a terrorist state. If we ignore that, does that means 3k USA civilians killed in 9/11 = over 2.4 Millions of Iraqi civilians. Are US lives worth more then others? Any investigation into these results in sanctions by USA. Should we allow such a country to designate anyone a terrorist? Are they morally in the correct to declare anyone a terrorist?

OBL's group attacked Pakistani forces, slaughtered tribals, they killed the tribal leadership. What US has to do with that?

 

[Morpheus]

OBL's group attacked Pakistani forces, slaughtered tribals, they killed the tribal leadership. What US has to do with that?

Back in 2001, the Afghan gov asked USA to provide evidence regarding OBL involvement in 9/11, and they will hand over OBL. USA refused that, and started bombing Afghanistan. Was it too much for USA to share that evidence and avoid thousands of death. Thousands of people were bombed, pushing them to join OBL. Remember OBL was a hero according to USA, and Afghan people, for his service against soviet. By bombing civilians, the people ran to OBL who had saved them before. Some of those people that ran to OBL are the same ones that have been declaring Pakistan territory as Afghan for years. Everyone goals were aligned for the time, defending Afghanistan.

The people who claimed Pakistani territory as Afghanistan used this opportunity to target Pakistan as well. Since Pakistan we were providing assistant to USA while they were bombing Afghanistan, it was easy to view Pakistan as an enemy as well.

So Pakistan got dragged into the war because USA refused to provide evidence and go through a non violent diplomatic channel. On top of that, when they did finally get OBL, they took him out without a trial. The worlds most wanted terrorist, taken out without evidence. They even released doctored pic of his body.

All these actions of USA, gives them what moral power to declare someone a terrorist. Why do we keep looking to USA to declare someone a terrorist. Today you or me can be civilians. Tomorrow out of nowhere, we can be declared terrorist by USA, and the world will will just accept it?

 

[shahbaz baig]

is Qoom ka kuch nhi ho sakta.
1.Jb zarorat hai kasmir k oper india ko internationally ghalt sabit krny ki. Diplomatically kashmir ka muhaaz heilight krny ki.
2. Jb zarorat hai reqo dik per international court mai petition submit krny ki against one of judge.

Bajae is k hm apny foreign ministry per dabao dalain or apni foreign ministry ko criticize karain hm fazool ki bato mai phansy howy hain.