Operation Blue Star -Sikh Holocaust 1984

[IBM]

lol - i think sikh are the most prosper people right now in india. i mean guys this is question to all the indian memebers:

Have you ever seen a sikh begger ??????

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more ove punjab is probably the only region in india where you have peace and easiest to make money - go to ludhiana punjab.
--- i dont buy this argument that sikh dont get respect rather - its funky and kind of cool to be called punjabi in india.

I agree with you. Sikhs or punjabi's r the most properous community in India and Sikhs r treated with respect now. Punjab despite of corrruption still has highest purchasing power. Example Punjab has highest no. of Mercedes sales in whole India. Hope i have not gone out of topic. Above all khalistan issue is gone, finished in India. but still live in Usa,canada,UK. I myself saw lot of sikh extreamist is treated as heroes in gurudwara in these countries.

 

[notsuperstitious]

I agree with you. Sikhs or punjabi's r the most properous community in India and Sikhs r treated with respect now. Punjab despite of corrruption still has highest purchasing power. Example Punjab has highest no. of Mercedes sales in whole India. Hope i have not gone out of topic. Above all khalistan issue is gone, finished in India. but still live in Usa,canada,UK. I myself saw lot of sikh extreamist is treated as heroes in gurudwara in these countries.

Thanks IBM, you can see some more evidence in the statistics here. Sikhs are wwaaayyy ahead of others in all indicators.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/20806-indian-minorities-backward.html

Yes militant sikhs are very active in some countries, but they dare not show their faces in public in india because they know the ground reality.

 

[paritosh]

Anyway operation bluestar is one of the best moment of indian histroty and indian state showed brute resloves to deal with its internal problem.IG Gandhi made some mistakes,but she is a hell of tough lady.Any country would be proud of a leader like her.

On the otherhand, riots of 84 are a blot on face of india and its very sad that we never punished who were the culprit of 84 riots .

this is a very wrong conclusion that you've made yourself to believe...maybe it's because you are still coming to grips with the politics of the sub-continent.
The congress under Mrs. gandhi was for the first time since independence fearing a defeat in the elections...In punjab they had not foot-hold....so she endorsed Bhidrawala...
as far as bhidrawala is concerned...you shouldn't jump to conclusions...majority of the Sikhs...even those you know and who love India...don't view him as a terrorist...from what i've heard he was a religious man.it was Mrs Gandhi's fault that she played with fire.

on a side note...i would like all the hindu memebers(I hate referring religiously but....)to realize that today the two reasons why we remain hindus to this day is because of
a)the Rajputs of rajasthan
b)the Sikh warriors of Punjab
whenever I see a sikh I remember that.

Gabbar, they should give Bharat Ratna to KPS Gill.

yeah...I agree.
even if he was brutal...today's generation of Sikhs and hindus owe the peace in Punjab to him.

 

[IBM]

money is not alway a priority, i mean respect means first of all a new
law for sikhs shaadi and not apply the hindu law on sikhs

I myself is Sikh. I don't see anything wrong that sikh marriages comes in hindu marriage act. I mean sikhism is very close to Hinduism infact Sikhish comes out of Hinduism and 9 Sikh gurus were Hindus. We share 97% similarity in culture and rituals. We Sikhs have freedom to do marriges in Gurudwara . So Hindus r not forcing us to do marriages according to hindu rituals(7 pheere)..... so we have freedom and respect in India.

 

[paritosh]

bhindrawala was not a terrorist he never killed a innocent person.
and someone wtf vajpayee said after the operation he exactly said:"yeh to bahoot pehle ho jana chahiye tha."
also badal was involved in the operation.
i've red about 5/6 books on operation bluestar from different writers and almost everyone says that badal&co were involved

@ peace...I have read bhindrawalas stories too...about how religiously tolerant he was...and how he saved a hindu female from paying dowry and stuff...all that makes me want to believe that he was indeed a saint...but why did he stock up arms in the golden temple?
weren't their MMG? and rocket launchers in the temple complex?

see...the sikhs have this misconception that the GoI attacked the golden temple to embarrass the sardars of india who wanted their own state...the GoI attacked the golden temple because the separatists were operating from there.

IMO...whatever happened was bad...the 1980s was a turning point in the history of the sikhs in India.Had they chosen to intensify the Khalistan movement...we'd have sikh kids not going to schools and colleges and becoming mujaheedin like warriors...
in today's India I see no disparity b/w sikhs and hindus...sikhs hold good positions in India and are among the richest in India.
things have turned out well for sikhs.
so I believe that this whole episode though is a dark chapter in the history of our nation...but it also has a flip-side...a side that shows how from the dark days of the 80s we have progressed to this day and age where we live in peace and calm.

@Peace123...In India wherever people start talking in regionalistic way..they are condemned...like in the case of Raj Thackrey standing up for the maratha youth....the south Indian politicians promising of a 'bloodbath' if anything happens to Prabhakaran...etc etc..
it's a nation which is weakened by it's diversity and strengthened by it's diversity...it's what you want to believe in.

 

[sob]

Mrs.Gandhi played with fire and it backfired on her and the nation spectacularly.

Bhinderwale was propped up by the Congress to take on the Akalis and the Tail ended up waging the dog.

I have travelled in Punjab during the dark days and can vouch for the terror inflicted by the terrorists during those days. After dark the streets would get empty. There were attempts by the Terrorists to give a communal colour, by attacking only non-Sikhs and letting the Sikhs go after attacking a bus. But due to the strong relations between the two communities their evil design was thwarted.

The response from the state was quite brutal but I have yet to see any of these bleeding hearts condemn the killings by the terrorists. Also the action on the Golden Temple was tragic but no country can allow it's territory to be used to attack it's citizens.

I have Sikhs in my family and we all were shocked at the Operation Ble Star but we were totally disgusted by the actions of the terrorists and the way they defiled the temple.

 

[paritosh]

I myself is Sikh. I don't see anything wrong that sikh marriages comes in hindu marriage act. I mean sikhism is very close to Hinduism infact Sikhish comes out of Hinduism and 9 Sikh gurus were Hindus. We share 97% similarity in culture and rituals. We Sikhs have freedom to do marriges in Gurudwara . So Hindus r not forcing us to do marriages according to hindu rituals(7 pheere)..... so we have freedom and respect in India.

well I think that there should be a Sikh marriage act...
but I would tell you something interesting about India...we really aren't a secular state...when the constitution was being written and secualr examples all across the world being studied...it was decided that we'd have a uniform civil code for all the citizens and thereby remove most of the cultural discriminations..but a common consensus couldn't be reached on that...the muslims wanted a separate civil code for them....the constitution committee under Mr. Ambedkar wasn't ready to listen...so over the years the constitution agreed to an exception for the muslims....so in the weird secular nation we are,those who talk of separating one culture frm another are hailed as 'secularists' and those who talk of a common civil code are 'right-wing nationals'!

 

[polyglot]

so in the weird secular nation we are,those who talk of separating one culture frm another are hailed as 'secularists' and those who talk of a common civil code are 'right-wing nationals'!

Has pm singh (as a sikh) ever voiced his opinion regarding how he feels about goons in his party like tytler or Sajjan Kumar? I would to hear that and have yet came across any accounts of the same.

 

[third eye]

Mrs.Gandhi played with fire and it backfired on her and the nation spectacularly.

Bhinderwale was propped up by the Congress to take on the Akalis and the Tail ended up waging the dog.

I have travelled in Punjab during the dark days and can vouch for the terror inflicted by the terrorists during those days. After dark the streets would get empty. There were attempts by the Terrorists to give a communal colour, by attacking only non-Sikhs and letting the Sikhs go after attacking a bus. But due to the strong relations between the two communities their evil design was thwarted.

The response from the state was quite brutal but I have yet to see any of these bleeding hearts condemn the killings by the terrorists. Also the action on the Golden Temple was tragic but no country can allow it's territory to be used to attack it's citizens.

I have Sikhs in my family and we all were shocked at the Operation Ble Star but we were totally disgusted by the actions of the terrorists and the way they defiled the temple.

I agree with all whats written above except for the fact that it backfired.

States have to take hard decisions, the fact the Cong created B' wale does not imply he was above the law. he had it coming & got it. Yes the tail did wag the dog, but the dog had the final say with the tail.

To that end, at a tangent I would like to draw a parallel with what Mush did in Lal Masjid. However distasteful it may have been & whatever were the compulsions - it had to be done.

 

[Gabbar]

Anyway operation bluestar is one of the best moment of indian histroty and indian state showed brute resloves to deal with its internal problem.IG Gandhi made some mistakes,but she is a hell of tough lady.Any country would be proud of a leader like her.

Either you are ignorent or ill informed. Killing your own citizens is a best moment in IA history? People who makes only 2% of India's population but made 92% of sacrifices to free India from Briths rule and thier most holiest shrine was desicrates, was a proud moment? There were many different things that could of done, cut water, electricity and food to the complex but destroying the complex was a proud moment to you?

Gabbar, they should give Bharat Ratna to KPS Gill.

Go tell that to the families of innocent peole he assacinated for medals.

 

[Gabbar]

I myself is Sikh. I don't see anything wrong that sikh marriages comes in hindu marriage act. I mean sikhism is very close to Hinduism infact Sikhish comes out of Hinduism and 9 Sikh gurus were Hindus. We share 97% similarity in culture and rituals. We Sikhs have freedom to do marriges in Gurudwara . So Hindus r not forcing us to do marriages according to hindu rituals(7 pheere)..... so we have freedom and respect in India.

I would have to kindly disagree with you. Distinct Identity and recognition is must for any religion. Given that we share lots of cultural similarities with Hindus in Punjab but would you say same thing about Hindus in Tamil Nadu or Kerala? Before partition and even still we share lots of cultural similarities with Muslims in west Punjab, would you consider us Muslims than? Pakisan has Anad Karaj marriage act but our own country doesn't? 60+ years of indipendence and how hard is pass a law just for this issue? Christ was born to Jewish parents. No one will define Christianity as an offshoot of Judaism. Similarly, Guru Nanak Sahib, though born to Hindu parents, founded a distinct religion. It is ignorance (or conspiracy) to call Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism. Guru Nanak Sahib had proclaimed in unequivocal words that the Sikhs are "neither Hindus nor Muslims" (na ham Hindu na Musalman).

---------- Post added at 02:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 PM ----------

Sir unfortunately this happened in Mecca in 1979

They destroyed Mecca with tanks and bullets? Can you provide some links to this inccident?

 

[Khajur]

this is a very wrong conclusion that you've made yourself to believe...maybe it's because you are still coming to grips with the politics of the sub-continent.
The congress under Mrs. gandhi was for the first time since independence fearing a defeat in the elections...In punjab they had not foot-hold....so she endorsed Bhidrawala...
as far as bhidrawala is concerned...you shouldn't jump to conclusions...majority of the Sikhs...even those you know and who love India...don't view him as a terrorist...from what i've heard he was a religious man.it was Mrs Gandhi's fault that she played with fire.

on a side note...i would like all the hindu memebers(I hate referring religiously but....)to realize that today the two reasons why we remain hindus to this day is because of
a)the Rajputs of rajasthan
b)the Sikh warriors of Punjab
whenever I see a sikh I remember that.




yeah...I agree.
even if he was brutal...today's generation of Sikhs and hindus owe the peace in Punjab to him.

I admire IG Gandhi because she knew exactly what would be the repercusion of sending indian troop in to holy shrine of golden temple .They had all sorts of behind the scene negotiations which ofcourse failed and Bhidrawala was on verge of declaring khalistani state. So Gandhi had to take very unpopular but tough measure at her personal perils.

I can never believe operation blue star was politically motivated or intended to demean sikh community in anyway.

This lady kept her sikh body guards inspite of clear intelligence reports that Sikhs were to out kill her to avenge Blue star ops.

we hardly see this kind courage any more among indian politicians and her tough desion making ability is sorely missied.

She made many blunders like imposing emergency,but her tough as nail attitude was admired by even critics like Henry kissinger.

You second quote:


" on a side note...i would like all the hindu memebers(I hate referring religiously but....)to realize that today the two reasons why we remain hindus to this day is because of
a)the Rajputs of rajasthan
b)the Sikh warriors of Punjab
whenever I see a sikh I remember that. "

what utter pure nonsensical bullshit statement...Come on paritosh i never expected such stupid statements which i heard for the second time.First one time i heard it from a Khalistani rabble rouser on youtube.

Outside NCR and north west india,such statement would be viewed as idiotic to say the least.

What u exactly u meant when u say Rajputs and sikhs saved hindism?? u mean saved from converting to islam by muslim invaders ??

Hinduism is thousands yr old and pracised by crores of ppl in all parts of india.

I'm from orissa and mosts of the ppl are hindus not becasue of any Rajputs or sikhs,but because of undiminishing faith many centuries old Jagananth tradition.So is case with most other states in middle india and down south where hindu religion survived due strong belief system of the native ppl and innumerous sacrifices in spite of hundreds of yrs of muslim onslaught.

I've nothing but utter respect for sikh religion and sikh ppl in general,but Guru Nanak appeared and khalsa movement came into exitence only in 17th century.

By then most of muslims areas in suncontinet of today had coverted to Islam already.

Its Maratha Warriors shivaji maharaj who faught Aurangzebs conversion drive far successfuly then any Rajput or khalsa sikh.But then again forceful conversion was seen in few pockets and many hindus converted to islam due to Sufi movement at that specific point of time.

Guru Govind singh who just ushered martial khalsa sikh was contempory of shivaji.

I know that sikh warroirs help save some hindus lives of north west india during the invasion of Nadir Shar of iran.And from there rose these stories of Sikhs saving hindus.

But making any blanket statemet like giving credit to Rajputs or sikhs for existence of hinduism is historically inaccurate and sounds very stupid to say the least.

Hindus of orissa or many other states of india are hindus now... not because of support from any Rajputs or sikhs...but because of their strong conviction in hindu religion itself.


.

 

[Peshwa]

money is not alway a priority, i mean respect means first of all a new
law for sikhs shaadi and not apply the hindu law on sikhs

That isnt possible brother....First off...Indian laws arent "Hindu Laws"....
Secondly....Do you know how many religions exist in India...we cannot just succumb to religious pressure.....
If we change laws for Sikhs, then we first need to lookout for Muslims since they're a larger minority....would you be ok with Shariat law for them, multiple marriages etc?

India cannot be blackmailed by religious groups, Hindu, muslim or Sikh....Religion should stay away from State policy.....
Religion is used like a tool in India and we need to stop this right away!!! This is why I praise Operation Blue Star

 

[Khajur]

Either you are ignorent or ill informed. Killing your own citizens is a best moment in IA history? People who makes only 2% of India's population but made 92% of sacrifices to free India from Briths rule and thier most holiest shrine was desicrates, was a proud moment? There were many different things that could of done, cut water, electricity and food to the complex but destroying the complex was a proud moment to you?




Go tell that to the families of innocent peole he assacinated for medals.

Hello, yes they were own citizens.But they were terrorists armed with loads with ammunitin and had become threat to the safety and integrity of india.It was the last measure after all peaceful negotiation failed to dislodge them the Golden temple.

And whats so surprising about it??

Our army never hesitate to kill kashmiri militants,bodo and Ulfa militant of Assam and tribal naxalites/moists when they question writ of the nation, mercilessly in the self interest of this country.They are all indian citizens too.

Those militants were never innocent and even sikhs soldiers who attacked as part of IA knew it verywell.

Its an very unfortunate incident,but those millitant had it coming ...forced upon themselves by taking this nation into an hostage.The state showed enough tougness as needed to deal with it and thats why praised its one of our best moments.

And i'm sure all those great sikhs leaders who died fighting the british would concur with my views.

 

[peace123]

That isnt possible brother....First off...Indian laws arent "Hindu Laws"....
Secondly....Do you know how many religions exist in India...we cannot just succumb to religious pressure.....
If we change laws for Sikhs, then we first need to lookout for Muslims since they're a larger minority....would you be ok with Shariat law for them, multiple marriages etc?

India cannot be blackmailed by religious groups, Hindu, muslim or Sikh....Religion should stay away from State policy.....
Religion is used like a tool in India and we need to stop this right away!!! This is why I praise Operation Blue Star

wait a moment, i'm not saying to change completely the indian constitution but just somethings one of them is a proper marriage act beacause sikhs r not hindus and hindus marriage act can't be applied on sikhs.
for ur general knowledge muslim people has there own marriage act.