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Operation Blue Star -Sikh Holocaust 1984

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@ khajur:

Bhindranwala never wanted Khalistan initialy, all he wanted was what promised to Sikhs in 1947. Khalistan was declared by Sikhs in 1986.

It was to heal IG's her bruised ego. During emergency, Sikhs shred her emergency rule to pieces in Punjab by long marches, since it was un-constitutinal.

Wasn't that kissinger who called her "old witch"?

Who faught moguls than all these year? 55 years of gurrila war by Sikhs. Rajputana rebelions. Read India's history from 1600s - 1850s. Sikhs rescued girl whenever Abdali was taking them to Kabul.

Sivaji faught Aurangzeb but where? In Maharashtra? Give me the time line where Maratha's faught Jahangir?, who faught Abdali?, who faught Mir Mannu etc.

Its Maratha Warriors shivaji maharaj who faught Aurangzebs conversion drive far successfuly then any Rajput or khalsa sikh.

When did shivahi captured Delhi? Who closed the Khyberpass? Do you have any idea how many times India was attacked, many attackes never reached Maharashtra due to fighting with Sikhs, Rajputs and/or looters had gotten what they needed.

Guru Govind singh who just ushered martial khalsa sikh was contempory of shivaji.

I would love to debate this one with you. PM on this one open a new thread, I want to know how you came to this conclusion.
 
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That isnt possible brother....First off...Indian laws arent "Hindu Laws"....
Secondly....Do you know how many religions exist in India...we cannot just succumb to religious pressure.....

Under constitution it's called Hindu marrige act.

If we change laws for Sikhs, then we first need to lookout for Muslims since they're a larger minority....would you be ok with Shariat law for them, multiple marriages etc?

Would you consider consider Chritian or Muslim marriage act for Hindus? Dont confuse religious recognition with law of society. Sharia is sort of society law. Sikhs are forced to register as Hindus under Hindu marriage act.

India cannot be blackmailed by religious groups, Hindu, muslim or Sikh....Religion should stay away from State policy.....

Agree....

Religion is used like a tool in India and we need to stop this right away!!! This is why I praise Operation Blue Star

Couldn't disagree or disapointed in the last part of your statement. Killing elders, womens and kids is good thing for you.
 
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Hello, yes they were own citizens.But they were terrorists armed with loads with ammunitin and had become threat to the safety and integrity of india.It was the last measure after all peaceful negotiation failed to dislodge them the Golden temple.

Terrorists aren't born terrorists. What drove them to pickup arms. Did you know what Gandi said when asked by Tara Singh after 1947 that "what if Sikhs didn't get what they were promised?", he said "Sikhs will have the right to pick the arms". Thats the exact quote from him. Please provide some link where negotiations were takng place, I want to know how did miss this.

And whats so surprising about it??

Our army never hesitate to kill kashmiri militants,bodo and Ulfa militant of Assam and tribal naxalites/moists when they question writ of the nation, mercilessly in the self interest of this country.They are all indian citizens too.

Those militants were never innocent and even sikhs soldiers who attacked as part of IA knew it verywell.

Its an very unfortunate incident,but those millitant had it coming ...forced upon themselves by taking this nation into an hostage.The state showed enough tougness as needed to deal with it and thats why praised its one of our best moments.

Yes, it is toughness. Kill your own citizens, instead of listening to there problems. As Khuswant Singh said to IG that "LAMHOH NE KHATA KEE THEE PER SADION THE SAZA PAYEE".

And i'm sure all those great sikhs leaders who died fighting the british would concur with my views.

Beleive they also wouldn't be pround what thier own government, people and army did to thier own citizens
 
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@ khajur:

Bhindranwala never wanted Khalistan initialy, all he wanted was what promised to Sikhs in 1947. Khalistan was declared by Sikhs in 1986.

It was to heal IG's her bruised ego. During emergency, Sikhs shred her emergency rule to pieces in Punjab by long marches, since it was un-constitutinal.

Wasn't that kissinger who called her "old witch"?

Who faught moguls than all these year? 55 years of gurrila war by Sikhs. Rajputana rebelions. Read India's history from 1600s - 1850s. Sikhs rescued girl whenever Abdali was taking them to Kabul.

Sivaji faught Aurangzeb but where? In Maharashtra? Give me the time line where Maratha's faught Jahangir?, who faught Abdali?, who faught Mir Mannu etc.



When did shivahi captured Delhi? Who closed the Khyberpass? Do you have any idea how many times India was attacked, many attackes never reached Maharashtra due to fighting with Sikhs, Rajputs and/or looters had gotten what they needed.



I would love to debate this one with you. PM on this one open a new thread, I want to know how you came to this conclusion.


Gabber,

"who faught Abdali?"

Have U read about third Battle of panipat ??

Battle of Panipat (1761) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The marathas under Shivaji weakened the moguls empire by taking on Aurangzeb.

After Aurangzeb the moghuls empire disintegtrated.
Yes,Guru Gobind singh established the khalsa foce only in 1699 long after death Shivaji.

Its the weakening of moghuls healps the rise of sikh power but it existed only in north west india.

Other regions of india were under marathas and other muslim rulers of who came out of lost moghul empires.

Sikhs made no resistance to Abdali who faught the marathas in battle of panipat in 1761.I have given the llink.

They too couldnt stop Nadir shah from reaching delhi.

After the loss of Maratha at Panipat,its british who were sweeping rest of india from bengal and Madras.

Sikh empire by that time were reigning in punjab regions only outside majority of current indian land till they fall in 1800s.

The pointis Sikhs had never any influence major indian parts expect for punjab in the history.Even their existance in the west didnt prevent the british from grabbing most of india or stop invaders like Abdali or nadir shah.
 
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Marathas did fought him but only once I believe, he invaded nine times.

Ahmad Shah Durrani

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First of Nine Invasions of India

Durrani's EmpireHe invaded India nine times between 1747 and 1769. He set out from Peshawar on his first Indian expedition in December 1747. By January 1748, Lahore and Sirhind had been captured. Eventually Mughal forces were sent from Delhi to resist his advance. Lacking artillery and vastly outnumbered, he was defeated at Manupur in March 1748 by Mu'in-ul-Mulk, the son of the Wazir Qamar-ud-Din who had been killed in a preliminary skirmish. Ahmad Shah retreated to Afghanistan and Mu'in-ul-Mulk was appointed governor of the Punjab. Before Mu'in-ul-Mulk could consolidate his position, Ahmad Shah, in December 1749, again crossed the Indus. Receiving no reinforcements from Delhi, Mu'in-ul-Mulk was forced to make terms with him. In accordance with instructions from Delhi, Ahmad Shah was promised the revenues of the Chahar Mahal (Gujrat, Aurangabad, Sialkot and Pasrur) which had been granted by the Mughal emperor Muhammad Shah to Nadir Shah in 1739. The nonpayment of the revenues of the Chahar Mahal was the reason for his third Indian expedition of 1751-52. Lahore was besieged for four months and the surrounding country devastated. Mu'in-ul-Mulk was defeated in March 1752, but was reinstated by Ahmad Shah to whom the emperor formally ceded the two subahs of Lahore and Multan .

During this expedition Kashmir was annexed to the Durrani empire. By April 1752 Ahmad Shah was back in Afghanistan. Mu'in-ul-Mulk found the Punjab a troublesome charge and his death in November 1753 only served to intensify the anarchy. All power was for a time in the hands of his widow, Mughlani Begam, whose profligacy signalled many a rebellion. The Mughal Wazir Imad ul-Mulk took advantage of this anarchy to recover the Punjab for the empire and entrusted its administration to Adina Beg. Ahmad Shah immediately set out to recover his lost province. He reached Lahore towards the end of December 1756, and, after an unopposed march, entered Delhi on 28 January 1757. The city was plundered and the defenceless inhabitants massacred. A similar fate befell the inhabitants of Mathura, Vrindavan and Agra. Towards the end of March 1757, an outbreak of cholera amongst his troops forced Ahmad Shah to leave India. The territory of Sirhind was annexed to the Afghan empire. Najib ud-Daula, the Ruhila leader who had supported him, was left in charge of Delhi and his own son, Taimur, appointed viceroy of the Punjab. He had no sooner left India than the Sikhs, together with Adina Beg, rose in revolt against Taimur. Early in 1758 Adina Beg invited the Marathas to expel the Afghans from the Punjab. This was accomplished by the Marathas who actually crossed the Indus and held Peshawar for a few months. These events brought Ahmad Shah to India once again (1759-61). The Marathas rapidly evacuated the Punjab before the Afghan advance and retreated towards Delhi. They were routed with enormous losses at Panipat on 14 January 1761.

Vadda Ghallughara—the Great Killing
After Panipat the main factor to reckon with was the growing power of the Sikhs who had constantly been assailing Ahmad Shah's lines of communication. It was against them that the Afghan invader's sixth expedition (1762) was specifically directed. News had reached him in Afghanistan of the defeat, after his withdrawal from the country, of his general, Nur ud-Din Bamezai, at the hands of the Sikhs who were fast spreading themselves out over the Punjab and had declared their leader, Jassa Singh Ahluvalia, king of Lahore (1761). To rid his Indian dominions of them once for all, he set out from Qandahar. Marching with alacrity, he overtook the Sikhs as they were withdrawing into the Malva after crossing the Sutlej. The moving caravan comprised a substantial portion of the total Sikh population and contained, besides active fighters, a large body of old men, women and children who were being escorted to the safety of the interior of the country. Surprised by Ahmad Shah, the Sikhs threw a cordon round those who needed protection, and prepared for the battle. Continuing their march in this form, they fought the invaders and their Indian allies desperately. Ahmad Shah succeeded, in the end, in breaking through the ring and glutted his spite by carrying out a fullscale butchery. Near the village of Kup, near Malerkotia, nearly 25,000 Sikhs were killed in a single day's battle (5 February 1762), known in Sikh history as Vadda Ghallughara, the Great Killing. But the Sikhs were by no means crushed.

Harimandar Quickly Restored
Within four months of the Great Carnage, the Sikhs had inflicted a severe defeat on the Afghan governor of Sirhind. Four months later they were celebrating Divali in the Harimandar (God's Temple) Amritsar, which had been blown up with gunpowder by order of the Shah in April 1762, and were fighting with him again a pitched battle forcing him to withdraw from Amritsar under cover of darkness (17 October). Ahmad Shah left Lahore for Afghanistan on 12 December 1762.

Ahmad Shah planned another crusade against the Sikhs and he invited this time his Baluch ally, Amir Nasir Khan , to join him in the adventure. He started from Afghanistan in October 1764 and reaching Lahore attacked Amritsar on 1 December 1764. A small batch of thirty Sikhs, in the words of Qazi Nur Muhammad, the author of the Jangnamah, who happened to be in the imperial train accompanying the Baluch division, "grappled with the ghazis, spilt their blood and sacrificed their own lives for their Guru." Ahmad Shah came down to Sirhind without encountering anywhere the main body of the Khalsa. This time he went no farther than Sirhind. As he was marching homewards through the Jalandhar Doab, Sikh sardars, including Jassa Singh Ahluvalia, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, Charhat Singh Sukkarchakkia, Jhanda Singh Bhangi and Jai Singh Kanhaiya, kept a close trail constantly raiding the imperial caravan. Their depredations caused great annoyance to the Shah who lost much of his baggage to the Sikhs. The floods in the River Chenab took a further toll of his men and property, and he returned to Afghanistan mauled and considerably shaken.

Last Invasions and Death of Ahmad Shah
The fear of his Indian empire falling to the Sikhs continued to obsess the Shah's mind and he led out yet another punitive campaign against them towards the close of 1766. This was his eighth invasion into India. The Sikhs had recourse to their old game of hideandseek. Vacating Lahore which they had wrested from Afghan nominees, Kabuli Mall and his nephew Amir Singh, they faced squarely the Afghan general, Jahan Khan at Amritsar, forcing him to retreat, with 6,000 of the Durrani soldiers killed. Ahmad Shah offered the governorship of Lahore to Sikh sardar, Lahina Singh Bhangi, but the latter declined the proposal. Jassa Singh Ahluvalia, with an army of 30,000 Sikhs, roamed about the neighbourhood of the Afghan camp plundering it to his heart's content. Never before had Ahmad Shah felt so helpless. The outcome of the unequal, but bitter, contest now lay clearly in favour of the Sikhs. The Shah had realized that his Indian dominions were at the mercy of the Sikhs and he bowed to the inevitable. His own soldiers were getting restive and the summer heat of the Punjab was becoming unbearable. He, at last, decided to return home, but took a different route this time to avoid molestation by the Sikhs. As soon as Ahmad Shah retired, Sikhs reoccupied their territories.

The Shah led out his last expedition in the beginning of 1769. He crossed the Indus and the Jehlum and reached as far as the right bank of the Chenab and fixed his camp at Jukalian to the northwest of Gujrat. By this time the Sikhs had established themselves more firmly in the country. Moreover, dissensions broke out among the Shah's followers and he was compelled to return to Afghanistan.

On Ahmad Shah's death in 1772 of the cancerous wound said to have been caused on his nose by a flying piece of brick when the Harimandar Sahib was destroyed with gunpowder, his empire roughly extended from the Oxus to the Indus and from Tibet to Khurasan. It embraced Kashmir, Peshawar, Multan, Sindh, Baluchistan, Khurasan, Herat, Qandahar, Kabul and Balkh.
 
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wait a moment, i'm not saying to change completely the indian constitution but just somethings one of them is a proper marriage act beacause sikhs r not hindus and hindus marriage act can't be applied on sikhs.
for ur general knowledge muslim people has there own marriage act.:eek:

You are right. The muslim personal law is based on sharia - separate for Shias and Sunnis.

The Hindu law you mentioned, what is it based on? And what is the SiKh law supposed to be ased on? What are the differences?
 
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Marathas did fought him but only once I believe, he invaded nine times.

Gabbar, thats true, but the most powerful Mughal - Aurangzeb - a blood enemy of Sikhs, he spent 25 last years of his life in maratha territory fighting the marathas, he could not defeat them and withing 6 (IIRC) years of his death in maratha land, marathas were in Delhi. Just to put the right perspective and not to deny the role of Sikhs in resisting outside powers.
 
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They destroyed Mecca with tanks and bullets? Can you provide some links to this inccident?

Sir you will find more information on this at this site
Home | The Siege of Mecca

This also has a photogallery but I could not upload the photos.
Check this out also
Grand Mosque Seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
With religious approval granted, Prince Sultan ordered frontal assaults on three of the main gates, preceded by an artillery barrage.
Also you will find pics of the US embassy being stormed in Islamabad after rumors that the US had bombed the Holy Mosque at Mecca.
 
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I admire IG Gandhi because she knew exactly what would be the repercusion of sending indian troop in to holy shrine of golden temple .They had all sorts of behind the scene negotiations which ofcourse failed and Bhidrawala was on verge of declaring khalistani state. So Gandhi had to take very unpopular but tough measure at her personal perils.
true true...but what led things go out of hand so much?
I don't care how she rectified her mistake...it was her mistake...to seek political aims she caused a blunder...and the country has to run through a system of scrutinies and checks and buffers...no person should be strong enough to take "tough measures at their perils"!
it's not an anarchy.
I can never believe operation blue star was politically motivated or intended to demean sikh community in anyway.
I agree bluestar wasn't....
This lady kept her sikh body guards inspite of clear intelligence reports that Sikhs were to out kill her to avenge Blue star ops.
I don't find the Sikhs entirely guilty for that.
what utter pure nonsensical bullshit statement...Come on paritosh i never expected such stupid statements which i heard for the second time.First one time i heard it from a Khalistani rabble rouser on youtube.
well even if it has been sensationalized by some sardar on you-tube a large part of it stays a historical fact.
I am not a sardar...but I'd ask you a very interesting question....did you study in a CBSE affiliated school?now I remember in the 10th std,we had in our history books...a substantial portion on Maharaja Ranjit Singh and the rise of the Sikh empire...did we get to study that?I did not...it was removed from the curriculum...it was a part of our history wasn't it?i know about the cholas and the vijaynagar empire and those of the deccan...I know of the mughals....I have studied of the Bengali nawabs and those of lucknow..from the same history books...but why not of the most successful non-mughal empire that panned three different countries?
Hinduism is thousands yr old and pracised by crores of ppl in all parts of india.

I'm from orissa and mosts of the ppl are hindus not becasue of any Rajputs or sikhs,but because of undiminishing faith many centuries old Jagananth tradition.So is case with most other states in middle india and down south where hindu religion survived due strong belief system of the native ppl and innumerous sacrifices in spite of hundreds of yrs of muslim onslaught.
The Egyptians did not leave being the followers of the pharaoh because they gave up hope in their religion...they were conquered.
The Egyptians of today identify themselves as Arabs and not the people who built the pyramids...heck the arabs themselves before being defeated fought years and years fiercely against the muslims...
It is more about military conquests than keeping your faith.
By then most of muslims areas in suncontinet of today had coverted to Islam already.

Its Maratha Warriors shivaji maharaj who faught Aurangzebs conversion drive far successfuly then any Rajput or khalsa sikh.But then again forceful conversion was seen in few pockets and many hindus converted to islam due to Sufi movement at that specific point of time.

Guru Govind singh who just ushered martial khalsa sikh was contempory of shivaji.

I know that sikh warroirs help save some hindus lives of north west india during the invasion of Nadir Shar of iran.And from there rose these stories of Sikhs saving hindus.
under Akhbar...all religions flourished.there was no reason for the Sikhs to draw swords..Sikhism started not as a military movement....but as a spiritual one.With Aurangazeb in power...when religious atrocities were being committed...the sikhs became a martial cult...I would not compare the marathas and the sikhs...the marathas were a force to reckon..they weakened the mughal empire in the deccan and central parts...while the sikhs weakened the mughals in areas of punjab and even rajashtan...the rajputs who had alied with the mughals now rebelled against Aurangazeb as they were fierce hindus...and feared a muslim mass conversion.
Khajur...have you ever been to Rajasthan?if you'd go there....you'd see the maximum number of forts and garrisons in one state in India.
The whole friggin state is made of forts...which basically shows how battle ready and prone the rajputs were...
but interestingly...the rajputs and the sikhs were many times at loggerheads.
the rajputs were really pissed when the sikhs adopted the rajput title of 'singh' as their own...!
 
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gabbar ssa jee,

just to add some weight to your point....

attached is my school leaving.. some members should seriously look at the religion column and decide on their own what a disgust it is...
 

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gabbar ssa jee,

just to add some weight to your point....

attached is my school leaving.. some members should seriously look at the religion column and decide on their own what a disgust it is...


Buddy mask other information!
it is not good to share the personal information on forums
 
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gabbar ssa jee,

just to add some weight to your point....

attached is my school leaving.. some members should seriously look at the religion column and decide on their own what a disgust it is...

HINDUS HAV GIVIN NOTHIN TO US SIKHS

80% OF THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR INDIAN INDEPENCE WERE SIKHS

U HEAR ABOUT GHANDI ALL THE TIME ABOUT "PEACEFULL PROTEST" WHERE DID HE GET THAT FROM -THE SIKHS

THIS IS WHERE A GORA SAID I SEE MANY CHRISTS BEIN CRUSIFIED EVERYDAY I.E. NANKANA SAHIB ETC

AND WHAT DID WE GET IN RETURN

-WE HAD TO FIGHT FOR OUR LANGUAGE

-WE ARENT STILL RECOGNISED AS SEPARATE RELIGION TO HINDUISM(WHICH ISNT A RELGION ANYWAY)WHEREAS THE UK RECOGNISES US NOT ONLY AS A RELIGION BUT ALSO AS A COMPLETE NATION

-OUR HOLLIEST OF HOLY SHRINE THE SRI HARIMANDER SAHIB WAS ATTAKED WITH THE SRI AKAL TAKHT DESTROYED

-OVER 100 000 SIKHS MASSACERED AFTER THAT B**** INDIRA GHANDI WAS GUNNED DOWN BY TWO HEROIC SIKHS

-STILL TODAY ARTOCITIES ARE COMMITED

ANDWHAT DO U SAY: India does not owe THAT MUCH to the Sikhs!!

INDIA NOT ONLY OWES ITS EXISTENCE BUT IT OWES AN APOLOGY AS WELL AS ALOT MORE :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
 
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HINDUS HAV GIVIN NOTHIN TO US SIKHS

80% OF THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR INDIAN INDEPENCE WERE SIKHS

U HEAR ABOUT GHANDI ALL THE TIME ABOUT "PEACEFULL PROTEST" WHERE DID HE GET THAT FROM -THE SIKHS

THIS IS WHERE A GORA SAID I SEE MANY CHRISTS BEIN CRUSIFIED EVERYDAY I.E. NANKANA SAHIB ETC

AND WHAT DID WE GET IN RETURN

-WE HAD TO FIGHT FOR OUR LANGUAGE

-WE ARENT STILL RECOGNISED AS SEPARATE RELIGION TO HINDUISM(WHICH ISNT A RELGION ANYWAY)WHEREAS THE UK RECOGNISES US NOT ONLY AS A RELIGION BUT ALSO AS A COMPLETE NATION

-OUR HOLLIEST OF HOLY SHRINE THE SRI HARIMANDER SAHIB WAS ATTAKED WITH THE SRI AKAL TAKHT DESTROYED

-OVER 100 000 SIKHS MASSACERED AFTER THAT B**** INDIRA GHANDI WAS GUNNED DOWN BY TWO HEROIC SIKHS

-STILL TODAY ARTOCITIES ARE COMMITED

ANDWHAT DO U SAY: India does not owe THAT MUCH to the Sikhs!!

INDIA NOT ONLY OWES ITS EXISTENCE BUT IT OWES AN APOLOGY AS WELL AS ALOT MORE :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
peace you can you friggin stfu ???? dude what are you on about why capslock ?????

now dont shout at memebrs here. if u feel so bad about being a sikh in india. why dont you come to delhi gimmi your number - iwill show you how punjabi can be spoken in delhi, how sikh are richest buggers her sikh are not minority and - and i think except for a handfull of politicians every body know and respect.

our ajad , bhagat singh and their borhterhood. and dont tell me indians dont know what sikh have done for this country.

just see prime minister of india - IS A SIKH and eductaerd poppulation love him . even thought now a days he is not doing it strong heartedly but i still respect him and love him .

now dont get me started over this. just stfu. and check out ground realities. come and visit india. or pujab .
i tell you - go to punjab and then go to any other state except for - delhi and haryan ( they have big sikh communiyt)
every other state is suffering and is poor. undereducated .


what have you done for your sikh community otherthan leaving them in this rumble and hiding in italy ???:cheers:
 
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HINDUS HAV GIVIN NOTHIN TO US SIKHS

80% OF THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR INDIAN INDEPENCE WERE SIKHS

U HEAR ABOUT GHANDI ALL THE TIME ABOUT "PEACEFULL PROTEST" WHERE DID HE GET THAT FROM -THE SIKHS

THIS IS WHERE A GORA SAID I SEE MANY CHRISTS BEIN CRUSIFIED EVERYDAY I.E. NANKANA SAHIB ETC

AND WHAT DID WE GET IN RETURN

-WE HAD TO FIGHT FOR OUR LANGUAGE

-WE ARENT STILL RECOGNISED AS SEPARATE RELIGION TO HINDUISM(WHICH ISNT A RELGION ANYWAY)WHEREAS THE UK RECOGNISES US NOT ONLY AS A RELIGION BUT ALSO AS A COMPLETE NATION

-OUR HOLLIEST OF HOLY SHRINE THE SRI HARIMANDER SAHIB WAS ATTAKED WITH THE SRI AKAL TAKHT DESTROYED

-OVER 100 000 SIKHS MASSACERED AFTER THAT B**** INDIRA GHANDI WAS GUNNED DOWN BY TWO HEROIC SIKHS

-STILL TODAY ARTOCITIES ARE COMMITED

ANDWHAT DO U SAY: India does not owe THAT MUCH to the Sikhs!!

INDIA NOT ONLY OWES ITS EXISTENCE BUT IT OWES AN APOLOGY AS WELL AS ALOT MORE :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:



Stop ranting .......it has not got anyone anything...and nothing is going to change in future...

If you want things to change ...stop wasting your time here and come back to India and do something to uplift your Religion/ community...

You are the one who ran away from India leaving your country and now you start throwing crap ..just like others..... Come back to yor home and fight peacefully for your rights...

Your Sikh leaders are sitting on top positions in Punjab.....push them to do something for you.....if you can't do that...just Shut up......
 
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