On Arab indifference toward the Peshawar massacre

[ResurgentIran]

Few observations:

1. We Pakistanis believe in Ummah because it is part of our belief-system and not a pipe dream of sorts.

2. We care for Arabs & Persians because we see them as our brothers-in-faith.

3. We are distressed to see Arab-Persian enmity boil over into our country and deepen Shia-Sunni divide.

4. We are at a weak state because our policies were mostly made by our Military establishment who was / is obsessed with security paradigm and therefore had / has tunnel vision. Taliban and their quasi-institutional support is a result of this tunnel vision and myopic view.

5. We Pakistanis did not believe in our system, had no patience with its evolution, and wanted a short-cut through dictators. This lack of faith in a damn good constitution has led us into wilderness where we feel the need for friends and find no one around. Ironically, it is this lack of belief in our collective wisdom that has given us monsters like TTP, who think nothing of our constitution and instead would like to establish a Mullah Emirate run by a dictator.

6. It is idiotic to blame others for own faults and weaknesses. If we had clarity of view earlier, TTP would have been handled a while back. This tragedy may not have happened at all. Also, I wonder who did the writer of OP article voted for in Pakistan.

7. There is a very vocal minority that has a complex about religion and wishes to disown it. These people never let go of a chance to make everyone around them question beliefs and positive faith-affirming attitude. I see them on Twitter, and on PDF too.

8. Big countries have big problems.

9. Pakistan is a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural country. We have to find own solutions and own ways of doing things so that we may show our brothers how they too can manage to work with diversity. I see Pakistan's success as Ummah's success and I see no reason to belittle this mission. We have to be strong ourselves before we can pretend to care about others. A nation that does not believe in itself can only fall flat when it tries to care for others. Ummah related ideas are not wrong - just premature.

So my friends while some of you would really like to have a Pakistan vs Indian and Arab vs Persian duel on this thread, I would like to remind you that such spats have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Mr Chak Bamu, I apologize. I was wrong for trying to use this thread and the suffering of the Pakistani people to rally against certain people. It was insensitive of me.
Tragic events like these should not be hijacked for such purposes.
May you recover from this heinous tragedy and I offer my sincerest and deepest condolences to Pakistan and the families of the murdered people.

 

[Reem]

My dear Pakistanis, it is our job to protect our house, it our responsibility to watch our interests, no need to feel too much at indifferences....the realization that we are by ourselves will help Pakistani nation to stand on its own, once we identify and take ownership of the problem, and work at it then it will get fixed.

The Arab investment into Pakistani soil needs to be redirected from Madrassas to businesses and economic projects, Qataris appear to be investing into our neighborhood, they should be brought here for investing into technical projects, while we work at converting madrassas into regular schools.

I'd say to progress, one needs diplomatic relations, we should develop such relations with India, Iran, China, Russia, Turkey, Arabs and west. Forget about brotherhood and friendships, Pakistanis should be nationalists and good muslims, working to protect interests of our nation while respecting others at the same time.

 

[Armstrong]

Mr Chak Bamu, I apologize. I was wrong for trying to use this thread and the suffering of the Pakistani people to rally against certain people. It was insensitive of me.
Tragic events like these should not be hijacked for such purposes.
May you recover from this heinous tragedy and I offer my sincerest and deepest condolences to Pakistan and the families of the murdered people.

You maybe a Persian Ostrich but we forgive you !

 

[Mosamania]

Few observations:

1. We Pakistanis believe in Ummah because it is part of our belief-system and not a pipe dream of sorts.

2. We care for Arabs & Persians because we see them as our brothers-in-faith.

3. We are distressed to see Arab-Persian enmity boil over into our country and deepen Shia-Sunni divide.

4. We are at a weak state because our policies were mostly made by our Military establishment who was / is obsessed with security paradigm and therefore had / has tunnel vision. Taliban and their quasi-institutional support is a result of this tunnel vision and myopic view.

5. We Pakistanis did not believe in our system, had no patience with its evolution, and wanted a short-cut through dictators. This lack of faith in a damn good constitution has led us into wilderness where we feel the need for friends and find no one around. Ironically, it is this lack of belief in our collective wisdom that has given us monsters like TTP, who think nothing of our constitution and instead would like to establish a Mullah Emirate run by a dictator.

6. It is idiotic to blame others for own faults and weaknesses. If we had clarity of view earlier, TTP would have been handled a while back. This tragedy may not have happened at all. Also, I wonder who did the writer of OP article voted for in Pakistan.

7. There is a very vocal minority that has a complex about religion and wishes to disown it. These people never let go of a chance to make everyone around them question beliefs and positive faith-affirming attitude. I see them on Twitter, and on PDF too.

8. Big countries have big problems.

9. Pakistan is a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural country. We have to find own solutions and own ways of doing things so that we may show our brothers how they too can manage to work with diversity. I see Pakistan's success as Ummah's success and I see no reason to belittle this mission. We have to be strong ourselves before we can pretend to care about others. A nation that does not believe in itself can only fall flat when it tries to care for others. Ummah related ideas are not wrong - just premature.

So my friends while some of you would really like to have a Pakistan vs Indian and Arab vs Persian duel on this thread, I would like to remind you that such spats have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

PDF has become a mire of nationalists, sectarian and outright racist members who do not miss a chance to further their goals through anything.

I had hoped that this tragedy would bring us together, would unite us at one cause. But instead we chose to point fingers at one another, I consider Pakistani people to be as much my people as Saudi people can be, I grew up with them, had many friends from there and still do, and care about Pakistan as much as I do my own nation.

While this forum has made this view of mine that I held since I was a child shake, pushed me to a side and forced me to sit in it and speak for it, a side that I truly don't wish to be in. Tragedies like this remind me of the friends and the football games and my sorry attempts to play cricket as a kid and failing miserably and it made my blood boil. But again I was forced to one side and was told to know my place sort to speak. And this really what made me sad most of all. I hope we learn to put our differences behind us. And unite if anything but against this thing.

 

[al-Hasani]

Outside of the trolling and all then Arabs were probably the Muslims that cared the most about this school massacre on a people to people level despite having plenty of sad news in their own backyard. Outside of the local Muslims of South Asia that is which for obvious reasons are more inclined to preoccupy about local matters.

There are many simple reasons for that.

1) Pakistan's biggest diaspora can be found in the Arab world.

2) Many of the 500 million or so Arabs across the world have known Pakistanis (especially in the GCC) for their entire life's and thus learnt a lot about Pakistan. No other Muslim groups can say that.

3) Arabs are some of the most religious Muslims and the biggest Muslim ethnic group out there (by far) and many of us hold pan-Islamist views so unrest in any Muslim state is often a great pain for those people. Which the willingness of private citizens to fight for other Muslims causes from everywhere from Chechnya, Afghanistan to Pakistan confirm.

4) There are 22 Arab countries. Very few are ruled by regimes that have been elected by people. None in the GCC. The average Arab is thus not responsible for what their regimes do in terms of condolences.

5) Every single Arab state condemned this massacre, so did the GCC and the OIC which is headed by Arabs currently. The most important Arab clerics did too. The Imams of Al-Masjid Al-Haram and Al-Masjid Al-Nabawi. The two most important mosques for the almost 2 billion Muslims.

6) Arabs do not expect Pakistanis (or anyone else for that matter) to condemn the many terrorist attacks in the Arab world that occur weekly (the same week that this massacre in Pakistan happened 150 Sunni Arab women in Fallujah were murdered by ISIS and 15 Yemeni school girls died in a bombing) nor do we cry about that not being the case. In fact we are disappointed that some Pakistanis here expect preferential treatment when the same favor is not returned.

7) People that are using this massacre which is the best example of pure hatred to spread hatred themselves are the most pathetic users that exist.

8) Likewise those that are unable to admit that most of the problems in Pakistan (98%) are self-made just like they are elsewhere in the Muslim world.

9) If some Pakistanis want to act more Arab than Arabs themselves then this is not our fault. We don't endorse this ourselves and find it rather sad.

10) Pakistanis that live in the Arab world, live off of our resources, lands, people, opportunities (that are not provided in Pakistan in the same manner) should quit insulting Arabs if they have any shame left. If they hate Arabs so much I am sure that some Arabs can pay for their tickets back home. This goes for all foreigners.

@Chak Bamu

 

[Gunsnroses]

Pakistanis working in Arab countries are not living on benefits but get hired LEGALLY and paid for their skills in exchange. Rather Arabs should be thankful to them for their expertise. Stop hiring them if they are so ungrateful. The whole argument above is absolutely flawed, self-centered and worth to be thrown in the bin.

@Mosamania Sorry if somewhere I went astray and responded you in a harsh way.

 

[al-Hasani]

Pakistanis working in Arab countries are not living on benefits but get hired LEGALLY and paid for their skills in exchange. Rather Arabs should be thankful to them for their expertise. Stop hiring them if they are so ungrateful. The whole argument above is absolutely flawed, self-centered and worth to be thrown in the bin.

@Mosamania Sorry if somewhere I went astray and responded you in a harsh way.

Is this post aimed at my post above or what?

You do realize that the vast, vast majority of Pakistanis in the GCC are lowly skilled workers right? Not that there is anything wrong with that but that's the reality. The notion of you "building" half of the Arab world is a false nonsense narrative that reeks of racism that you yourself complain so much about when ME people are discussed.

That's not the point. Pakistanis who willingly moved to Arab countries and who earn their living in Arab lands thanks to Arabs should be grateful and if they hate Arabs they should not be hypocrites but leave immediately. But as with so much else here in life money decides everything. I was specifically referring to those users based in Arab countries here on PDF that were insulting the common Arab man or woman.

Don't tell me that most of your compatriots would not have the same view if Afghans based in Pakistan were insulting the common Pakistani man and woman or being ungrateful. In fact I have seen hundreds of posts from Pakistani users complaining about how ungrateful Afghans are for badmouthing Pakistan all the time while you host so many of them and have helped them. I agree with this sentiment so there is no hypocrisy from my part.

It's similar in the West too. Locals rightly expect foreigners to remain loyal, respect them and contribute to the society. If this is done 99,9% of the people will not bother you. Regardless of you being "brown" or Muslim.

Of course it is now up to you whether you want to make a troll post as a reply or actually counter my argument as a person your age would do.

 

[marbella]

It's sad to see an "elite" member who had said the most pathetic thing about the Peshawar kids, has been given space to justify himself on this thread.

Please see reference post #4289 here: Peshawar Massacre - TTP kills hundreds of school kids (Avoid graphic pics/vids) | Page 286

"... I literally just tried to care about the incident but I couldn't give 2 shits anymore. Congrats missions accomplished."

some members have no humanity left in them. 132 kids died and ppl don't care!!!
the proud of crude...

 

[Armstrong]

To Pakistanis :

Stop complaining; late condemnation is what we all have our knickers in a twist over.....really ?

Has the world and Pakistan run out of issues that we're worried about who did or didn't condemn the Peshawar attack and when did they do it ?

International relations aren't made or broken over token gestures of condolences and congratulations.

Do you think everyone else who's condemned this has done so because their hearts couldn't bear the pain thinking about what happened or do you think this was one of a number of frequently recycled press releases that every country's foreign office makes ?

To Arabs (at least our Allies) :

Arabs should not have been insulted; to that end I apologize.

But what you people also need to realize is that this incident is competing with the Fall of Dacca to be the most terrible incident in our country's history and was rightly condemned by every who's who of the world hours after its occurrence.

On the other hand days go by before we receive an official condemnation from our brothers and our allies; that callousness and lack of interest has certainly disappointed and hurt many of us.

Now to both Pakistanis and Arabs let this be the end of it - There is no need to be melodramatic about this. Peace.

 

[Gunsnroses]

Is this post aimed at my post above or what?

You do realize that the vast, vast majority of Pakistanis in the GCC are lowly skilled workers right? Not that there is anything wrong with that but that's the reality. The notion of you "building" half of the Arab world is a false nonsense notion.

That's not the point. Pakistanis who willingly moved to Arab countries and who earn their living in Arab lands thanks to Arabs should be grateful and if they hate Arabs they should not be hypocrites but leave immediately. But as with so much else here in life money decides everything. I was specifically referring to those users based in Arab countries here on PDF that were insulting the common Arab man or woman.

Don't tell me that most of your compatriots would not have the same view if Afghans based in Pakistan were insulting the common Pakistani man and woman or being ungrateful. In fact I have seen hundreds of posts from Pakistani users complaining about how ungrateful Afghans are for badmouthing Pakistan all the time while you host so many of them and have helped them. I agree with this sentiment so there is no hypocrisy from my part.

Of course it is now up to you whether you want to make a troll post as a reply or actually counter my argument as a person your age would do.

You really have to ponder over your 'condition' that every counter argument against your post seems to you as a troll post. Come on...drag some mods as you always do like a cry baby despite your mature age.

Yes my post was aimed at your nonsensical sense of supreme-macy in almost all of your posts. Pakistanis working in Arab countries are a mixture of skilled and non skilled both. WE provided you with the best of the military training and services when you were NOTHING. WE as doctors and paramedics pushed your health sector to the level which is booming now specially in UAE. WE along with other nationalities as less skilled workers built the skyscrapers which you proudly call world first, world tallest, world whatever. In our good times, WE used to give the gifts like al-maqta bridge (1967, Abu dhabi). I can present my family member working on a high post as scientist in UAE as another example. List goes on, just like the lack of reasonable thoughts in your self-centred egoistic arguments.

You are no spokesperson on behalf of Arabs so I won't take you seriously in this post or the probable upcoming spouts. Wherever you live, live not in delusions of being our God father, in fact, you need to be grateful of those who are giving their expertise to build your country and of course we are paid for it. Those who dislike living in Saudia or any other country simply don't live there and there are many. Instead, you should pose one simple question to yourself. What have you mawatin done for the improvement and betterment of your country? What is your contribution? Zero.

 

[beast89]

Dear Pakistani friends.
Arabs have nothing to do with you. When in the hell will you catch the f.ucking drift?
What I want to know from Pakistanis is why you give so much hoot about these Arabs in the gulf and take their side against Iran in certain matters?
Even when Iran was building the gas pipeline and offered support for your energy needs, that idiot Nawaz Sharif (saudi lapdog) cancelled the project.
You cancelled a huge project that would have been the benefit of both Iran and Pakistan (and a major game changer), for the sake of Arabs, whom are completely apathetic to your suffering (as can be seen in this thread).

Nawaz Sharif stole the pakistani election and is fully supported by the saudis. Therefore KSA directly interfered in Pakistan's elections. He's arguably one of the most corrupt pakistani politicians of all time spending the country's money on private real estate in Britain and the Saudi "Royals" fully support this man. KSA is far from a super power which is the sad part; they just have oil wealth, they need pakistan to train their "syrian" opposition and they are desperate for nuclear weapon assurance from us.

This guy hates Nawaz Sharif and is cautious of KSA

 

[Pakistani patriot]

Pakistanis should remember that Arabs themselves (yes 99+% of Arabs) are the victims of these bloody games being played. Have you guys forgotten the bigger game plan that all of us are faced with?

Immature and unnecessary posts by some Pakistani members here. Also the article was printed by an Arab publication in case you forgot that.

The thread and moreso the Arab article itself has me confused btw. What was the writer expecting? Seems like 'disco' journalism to me.

Look it's time to get more enlightened about the bigger picture. It's now or never for all of us.

 

[beast89]

"Today, Saudi money continues to fund Wahhabi and Deobandi groups that promote their ideology in Pakistan with the tacit approval of the Pakistani government. The success of Saudi money in converting Muslim groups to Wahhabism has since been replicated in other parts of South Asia, including parts of India and Bangladesh. In the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, Saudi influence has led to 1.5 million people, from a population of 8 million, to affiliate with Wahhabi mosques.[5] A Saudi-funded group, Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith claims 16 percent of Kashmir’s population as its members and has built 700 mosques and 150 schools.[6] Police in Jammu and Kashmir believe this is the result of a $35 billion plan approved by Saudi Arabia’s government in 2005 to build mosques and madrassas in South Asia.[7] Additionally, Saudi Arabia distributed free religious literature and provided stipends to Wahhabi preachers."[8]

"Unless governments throughout South Asia take steps to limit the influence of Saudi money and encourage alternative sources of funding for mosques and madrassas, Saudi-funded Wahhabi influence will continue to spread throughout South Asia, radicalizing its Muslims, and hampering efforts by South Asian governments to fight radical Islam and promote modernization."
Georgetown Security Studies Review – The Radicalization of South Asian Islam: Saudi Money and the Spread of Wahhabism

 

[Reem]

PDF has become a mire of nationalists, sectarian and outright racist members who do not miss a chance to further their goals through anything.

I had hoped that this tragedy would bring us together, would unite us at one cause. But instead we chose to point fingers at one another, I consider Pakistani people to be as much my people as Saudi people can be, I grew up with them, had many friends from there and still do, and care about Pakistan as much as I do my own nation.

While this forum has made this view of mine that I held since I was a child shake, pushed me to a side and forced me to sit in it and speak for it, a side that I truly don't wish to be in. Tragedies like this remind me of the friends and the football games and my sorry attempts to play cricket as a kid and failing miserably and it made my blood boil. But again I was forced to one side and was told to know my place sort to speak. And this really what made me sad most of all. I hope we learn to put our differences behind us. And unite if anything but against this thing.

@Mosamania

Hi,
Very sorry if any of us caused hurt, I am positive everyone was just debating and not intending to down play anyone but please forgive us if we caused any bad feelings

Really you don't need to defend or apologize if some Arabs fund such madrassas in Pakistan that cause more harm than any good, just like we Pakistanis here at PDF don't need to apologize for any wrong doings of some Pakistanis around the world, there are good and bad individuals in all nations. Bottomline we should be able to figure what falls in our interest and what does not and protect us from any ill doings, if we know what harms us and still we turn a blind eye to that then we are our own enemies, sincerity of rest of the world should be questioned later.

Just like you have good memories of Pakistan, I also have good memories of Saudi Arabia, I lived in Saudi Arabia for 10 years with my parents, my mom taught English to Saudi under graduate girls, and my dad served as an Engineer. My mom cared for her students just like her own daughters, and they in return revered and respected her. I took an autograph diary to my mom's college when we were leaving Saudia, to get autographs and good bye notes from Saudi students, that diary is one of the few things I brought with me to USA!

This dicussion here on the thread has not changed even an iota of the impression I have of Saudi hospitality and friendship. I still have regard for the people I interacted with.
The discussions are good to see larger picture, understand geoplotical aspects and aftermaths of events, staying up to date on news around the world and noting perception of locals, but not good for forming or altering personal opinions, you should still cherish your good memories!
God bless you!

 

[Frogman]

U smoking Moroccan weed ? or just high on fool ?

Try doing some research, even a google search.

For stuff that in not even protested in ME, is protested in Pakistan.

and this is our beef with our Islamic parties;

They protest Palestine, and openly threaten Israel.
They protest to / against muslim brotherhood
They protested Iraq from Saddam till now

So, dear you can go make love to your self

Pakistan's biggest problem has been our elders respected ME for Islamic reason beyond reason.

I hold, ARABS and Egypt in particular focus for EACH an EVERY vice in this world at this time.

Be that yahood to Pharoas to Syed Qutub, to MB to Zawahiri to current violence.

Next time, be better prepared to argue.

Firstly, I was talking about tragedies being reported in Pakistani media, and not protests. Secondly, the protests that occur in Pakistan for the most part are rallies carried out by political parties or 'religious leaders' (not pressure groups) in order to support or condemn something as a result of a political agenda, they are not a true reflection of Pakistani grass roots politics (which is almost non existent). So, in reality the people protesting almost never have an informed opinion on what they are protesting for or against.

Now, this is a Pakistani problem not an Arab one. However, what I'm trying to get across here is that we as Arabs or Egyptians (or any other nationality) accept our failures, them being the birth of the radical Islamist ideology (Salafi Jihadi) and the support for the Mujahideen among other things. But again, the ultimate blame lies with the Pakistani state for decades of blunders and miscalculations that allowed extremists and extremist ideologies to embed themselves within its society.

For the third time now, it is more prudent to accept our failures and to accept that we all make our own domestic enemies and that pretending to be powerless in the face of domestic threats will only perpetuate the problem.