'Oldest' Koran fragments found in Birmingham University

[rockstar08]

'Oldest' Koran fragments found in Birmingham University - BBC News


@syedali73 @Horus @Slav Defence @Spring Onion @Irfan Baloch @DESERT FIGHTER @Zarvan @Jaanbaz @Pakistani Exile @Akheilos @Jungibaaz @Jango@KURUMAYA @Leader @Jazzbot @dexter @Armstrong @Oscar @MastanKhan

 

[Spring Onion]

'Oldest' Koran fragments found in Birmingham University



What may be the world's oldest fragments of the Koran have been found by the University of Birmingham.

Radiocarbon dating found the manuscript to be at least 1,370 years old, making it among the earliest in existence.

The pages of the Muslim holy text had remained unrecognised in the university library for almost a century.

The British Library's expert on such manuscripts, Dr Muhammad Isa Waley, said this "exciting discovery" would make Muslims "rejoice".

The manuscript had been kept with a collection of other Middle Eastern books and documents, without being identified as one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the world.

Oldest texts
When a PhD researcher, Alba Fedeli, looked more closely at these pages it was decided to carry out a radiocarbon dating test and the results were "startling".

The university's director of special collections, Susan Worrall, said researchers had not expected "in our wildest dreams" that it would be so old.

"Finding out we had one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the whole world has been fantastically exciting."


The tests, carried out by the Oxford University Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, showed that the fragments, written on sheep or goat skin, were among the very oldest surviving texts of the Koran.

These tests provide a range of dates, showing that, with a probability of more than 95%, the parchment was from between 568 and 645.

Discover how the Koran became part of British life


The local Muslim community has already expressed its delight at the discovery in their city and the university says the manuscript will be put on public display.

"When I saw these pages I was very moved. There were tears of joy and emotion in my eyes. And I'm sure people from all over the UK will come to Birmingham to have a glimpse of these pages," said Muhammad Afzal, chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque.

The university says the Koran fragments will go on display in the Barber Institute in Birmingham in October.

Prof Thomas says it will show people in Birmingham that they have a "treasure that is second to none".

'Oldest' Koran fragments found in Birmingham University - BBC News

 

[rockstar08]

This is indeed something very precious for Muslims

 

[Dubious]

I wonder where they stole it from and declared it theirs? Wonder if the city stolen from is documented ....

 

[Spring Onion]

This is indeed something very precious for Muslims

Two things are proven here by this discovery

1. that text in Quran is indeed not altered
2. the age of Islam

 

[rockstar08]

Two things are proven here by this discovery

1. that text in Quran is indeed not altered
2. the age of Islam

other things can also be extracted from this document ...
but i agree this prove those two things for sure ..

 

[Zarvan]

You people are late I already posted it hours ago

 

[Spring Onion]

I wonder where they stole it from and declared it theirs? Wonder if the city stolen from is documented ....

I wonder where they stole it from and declared it theirs? Wonder if the city stolen from is documented ....

Sorry i think i missed posting some parts.


The news says


The manuscript is part of the Mingana Collection of more than 3,000 Middle Eastern documents gathered in the 1920s by Alphonse Mingana, a Chaldean priest born near Mosul in modern-day Iraq.

He was sponsored to take collecting trips to the Middle East by Edward Cadbury, who was part of the chocolate-making dynasty.

 

[Dubious]

Sorry i think i missed posting some parts.


The news says


The manuscript is part of the Mingana Collection of more than 3,000 Middle Eastern documents gathered in the 1920s by Alphonse Mingana, a Chaldean priest born near Mosul in modern-day Iraq.

He was sponsored to take collecting trips to the Middle East by Edward Cadbury, who was part of the chocolate-making dynasty.

So how does sheep skin with Arabic written on it fit in chocolates?

 

[Spring Onion]

What may be the world's oldest fragments of the Koran have been found by the University of Birmingham.

Radiocarbon dating found the manuscript to be at least 1,370 years old, making it among the earliest in existence.

The pages of the Muslim holy text had remained unrecognised in the university library for almost a century.

The British Library's expert on such manuscripts, Dr Muhammad Isa Waley, said this "exciting discovery" would make Muslims "rejoice".

The manuscript had been kept with a collection of other Middle Eastern books and documents, without being identified as one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the world.

Oldest texts
When a PhD researcher, Alba Fedeli, looked more closely at these pages it was decided to carry out a radiocarbon dating test and the results were "startling".

The university's director of special collections, Susan Worrall, said researchers had not expected "in our wildest dreams" that it would be so old.

"Finding out we had one of the oldest fragments of the Koran in the whole world has been fantastically exciting."

The fragments of the Koran are still legible
The tests, carried out by the Oxford University Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, showed that the fragments, written on sheep or goat skin, were among the very oldest surviving texts of the Koran.

These tests provide a range of dates, showing that, with a probability of more than 95%, the parchment was from between 568 and 645.

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Media captionSusan Worrall says the university wants to put this internationally significant discovery on public display
The manuscript, written in "Hijazi script", an early form of written Arabic, becomes one of the oldest known fragments of the Koran.

Because radiocarbon dating creates a range of possible ages, there is a handful of other manuscripts in public and private collections which overlap. So this makes it impossible to say that any is definitively the oldest.

But the latest possible date of the Birmingham discovery - 645 - would put it among the very oldest.

'Precious survivor'
Dr Waley, curator for such manuscripts at the British Library, said "these two folios, in a beautiful and surprisingly legible Hijazi hand, almost certainly date from the time of the first three caliphs".

The first three caliphs were leaders in the Muslim community between about 632 and 656.

The University of Birmingham's manuscript was in a collection brought back from the Middle East
Dr Waley says that under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan, copies of the "definitive edition" were distributed.

"The Muslim community was not wealthy enough to stockpile animal skins for decades, and to produce a complete Mushaf, or copy, of the Holy Koran required a great many of them."

Dr Waley suggests that the manuscript found by Birmingham is a "precious survivor" of a copy from that era or could be even earlier.

"In any case, this - along with the sheer beauty of the content and the surprisingly clear Hijazi script - is news to rejoice Muslim hearts."

Muhammad Afzal of Birmingham Central Mosque said he was very moved to see the manuscript
The manuscript is part of the Mingana Collection of more than 3,000 Middle Eastern documents gathered in the 1920s by Alphonse Mingana, a Chaldean priest born near Mosul in modern-day Iraq.

He was sponsored to take collecting trips to the Middle East by Edward Cadbury, who was part of the chocolate-making dynasty.

The Koran

• Muslims believe the words of the Koran were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad by the angel Gabriel over 22 years from 610
• It was not until 1734 that a translation was made into English, but was littered with mistakes
• Copies of the holy text were issued to British Indian soldiers fighting in the First World War
• On 6 October 1930, words from the Koran were broadcast on British radio for the first time, in a BBC programme called The Sphinx

Discover how the Koran became part of British life

The local Muslim community has already expressed its delight at the discovery in their city and the university says the manuscript will be put on public display.

"When I saw these pages I was very moved. There were tears of joy and emotion in my eyes. And I'm sure people from all over the UK will come to Birmingham to have a glimpse of these pages," said Muhammad Afzal, chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque.

The university says the Koran fragments will go on display in the Barber Institute in Birmingham in October.

Prof Thomas says it will show people in Birmingham that they have a "treasure that is second to none".

So how does sheep skin with Arabic written on it fit in chocolates?

Since he was priest so may be at that time if priests were sponsored by business tycoons ?

 

[VCheng]

Two things are proven here by this discovery

1. that text in Quran is indeed not altered
2. the age of Islam

Has this manuscript been compared to other later texts to prove that #1 is true?

Since he was priest so may be at that time if priests were sponsored by business tycoons ?

It was customary for rich tycoons in those days to sponsor such trips and other similar academic and discovery endeavors.

 

[Dubious]

Since he was priest so may be at that time if priests were sponsored by business tycoons ?

Well it depends on who sent whom for what purpose...If it was to extract knowledge then it would be cool but if it was to destroy previous text (as many some 1000 yrs ago were at wars and burning libraries) then one should be cautious of what they are trying to pass as the Quran ....We also know that there were a few people who claimed themselves as "prophets" some "priests" who wrote with their own hands ...if it is trying to preserve "THEIR" handiwork and pass it off as the Quran being changed....I would say oh o...

under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan, copies of the "definitive edition" were distributed.

It could be the one he distributed or the one that survived the destruction of the others....would be interesting though...

 

[Spring Onion]

Has this manuscript been compared to other later texts to prove that #1 is true?

.

The news has quoted the experts who ran carbon test to determined the status of the script. I am saying on the basis of this expert opinion

Well it depends on who sent whom for what purpose...If it was to extract knowledge then it would be cool but if it was to destroy previous text (as many some 1000 yrs ago were at wars and burning libraries) then one should be cautious of what they are trying to pass as the Quran ....We also know that there were a few people who claimed themselves as "prophets" some "priests" who wrote with their own hands ...if it is trying to preserve "THEIR" handiwork and pass it off as the Quran being changed....I would say oh o...


It could be the one he distributed or the one that survived the destruction of the others....would be interesting though...

This was the first thought came to my mind too.

But there are older scripts too and if anything is deliberaty made up here it would be exposed

 

[VCheng]

The news has quoted the experts who ran carbon test to determined the status of the script. I am saying on the basis of this expert opinion

That only determines the age of the manuscript, not its content.

 

[Kesang]

Most religious people dont believe in radio carbon dating when paleontologist use it to prove evolution. I wonder that those muslims will believe in this claim or not.

Most religious people dont believe in radio carbon dating when paleontologist use it to prove evolution. I wonder that those muslims will believe in this claim or not.