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Official Pentagon report reveals U.S military "shocked" by Israel's conduct in Shujaiyya

Sir, please enlighten me what is the difference between a "war" and a "massacre" as you see it applying to the situation being discussed.

Let me enlighten you...

War is fought between to independent entities.

Massacre is where a colonial power use brute force against the people it is already colonizing specially when those people do not even have an army to defend themselves.

While the Hamas fired scented rose petals into Israel! Period!

Don't act as if you are that naive.

Hamas is not colonizing Israel. It is Israel which is colonizing Palestinians.

So blame of entire conflict goes on Gaza.

If an entity named "A" colonize a people..and this gives rise to an insurgency (normal)..and in response..entity A massacre those people.

Guess what? The entity A in this case is the criminal of highest order. The excuse of "but we were just fighting insurgency" does not work.

Entity A = Israel in this case.
 
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War is a state of armed conflict. Massacre is the violent killing of many people. People die violently in wars.
 
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While the Hamas fired scented rose petals into Israel! Period!
Islamic Jihad kill armed terrorists

JEWS make nazi terror bombings

Sir, please enlighten me what is the difference between a "war" and a "massacre" as you see it applying to the situation being discussed.
That's simple, war: it's for example the iranian army during the iran-iraq war

Massacre: that's the way of life of the israelis & zionist ISIS
 
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War is a state of armed conflict. Massacre is the violent killing of many people. People die violently in wars.

Not its not, dumbo.

Any "war" imposed on colonized people by their colonizer is massacre under International Law.

Stop humiliating yourself. Learn a thing or two about International Law.
 
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Sir, please enlighten me what is the difference between a "war" and a "massacre" as you see it applying to the situation being discussed.

War, is for a reason.
And Massacre is for ones pleasure or owns greed.


I put it on laymans term! ;D israeli wont understand the laws.
 
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War, is for a reason.
And Massacre is for ones pleasure or owns greed.


I put it on laymans term! ;D israeli wont understand the laws.

Your definitions are incorrect.
 
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Your definitions are incorrect.

Wut. ITS LEMANS. GLORIOUS LEMANS. others have answered you in this regard.
DONT BULLY THE GLORIOUS CHICKEN.

Anyway, dont wanna stay off topic anymore :p sorry.

(Just wanted to point at how zionist thinking goes)
 
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War does not have any limitation,humanity not any control...Every side wants to win ... do not you think that if Hamas has such weapons then they may not have used thinking about Humanity of Israel citizen? Common dude....Hamas used their best weapon to fight with Israel and so to do Israel too...Both Palestine and Israel knows that what will be the consequences when war breaks out...So what is the point in making analysis and giving human touch to a war?....These are simply excuses of loosing party who does not want to own the accountability of their own defeat...

Bottomline is that any war involves loss of human life, and these implications should have been kept in mind when both parties are doing for any war....

The cease-fire announced Tuesday between Israel and Palestinian factions — if it holds — will end seven weeks of fighting that killed more than 2,200 Gazans and some 69 Israelis. But as the rival camps seek to put their spin on the outcome, one assessment of Israel’s Gaza operation that won’t be publicized is that of the U.S. military. Still, even though the Pentagon shies away from publicly expressing judgments that might fall afoul of a decidedly pro-Israel Congress, senior U.S. military sources speaking on condition of anonymity offered a scathing assessment of Israeli tactics, particularly in the battle for Shujaiya.

One of the more curious moments in Israel’s Operation Protective Edge came on July 20, when a live microphone at FOX News caught Secretary of State John Kerry commenting sarcastically on Israel’s military action: “It’s a hell of a pinpoint operation,” Kerry said. “It’s a hell of a pinpoint operation.”

Rain of high-explosive shells

The secretary of state’s comment followed the heaviest bombardment of the war to that point, as Israeli artillery rained thousands of high-explosive shells into the neighborhood of Shujaiya, a residential area on the eastern edge of Gaza City. A high-ranking U.S. military officer told this reporter that the source of Kerry’s apparent consternation was almost certainly a Pentagon summary report assessing the Israeli barrage, on which the Secretary had been briefed by an aide moments earlier.

According to this senior U.S. officer, who had access to the July 21 Pentagon summary of the previous 24 hours of Israeli operations, the internal report showed that 11 Israeli artillery battalions —a minimum of 258 artillery pieces in all, according to this officer’s estimate — had pumped at least 7,000 high explosive shells into the Gaza neighborhood, which included a barrage of some 4,800 shells during the seven-hour period marking the height of the operation. Senior U.S. officers were stunned by the report.

Twice daily throughout the Israel Defense Forces’ (IDF) operation, a select group of senior U.S. military and intelligence officers at the Pentagon received a lengthy written summary of Israeli military action in Gaza. The reports — compiled from information gleaned from open sources, Israeli military officers with whom U.S. officials speak and satellite images — offered a detailed assessment of Israel’s battlefield tactics and the performance of its weaponry, a considerable portion of it supplied by the United States.

Although these reports shy away from offering political judgments on the operation, a number of senior U.S. military officers who spoke about the contents of those daily reports with this reporter were highly critical of some of the IDF’s tactics, particularly in the Israeli ground invasion of Shujaiya. An official spokesman at the Pentagon declined to comment on the contents of this article.

On July 16, the IDF had dropped leaflets into Shujaiya, warning residents of an imminent Israeli attack and urging them to evacuate the area.The next day, after a short artillery preparation, three IDF units, led by the Golani Brigade, began a ground assault into the neighborhood to destroy Hamas bunkers and break up Hamas formations.

'Take off the gloves'

The incursion went well at first, with Golani soldiers meeting little resistance. But by late on Saturday afternoon, July 19, forward elements of the brigade were running head on into well-organized Hamas units, and some IDF formations were pinned down in vicious house-to-house fighting in Shujaiya’s streets and alleys. What had been envisaged as “a limited ground operation” was not going as planned, with Hamas units emerging from tunnels and bunkers in attempts to exploit IDF weaknesses. The Hamas units were well prepared and trained, with their formations hidden so well that Israeli soldiers were rarely able to pinpoint their locations.

“The ground assault was poorly handled into eastern Gaza City,” an Israel civilian advisor to the IDF’s chief of staff told this reporter at the time. “The Hamas fighters showed an unexpected tenacity, and were far more effective against our armored units than we’d anticipated.”

By late Saturday night and into Sunday morning, the fight had devolved into a series of vicious small unit clashes, with IDF squads facing off against Hamas squads, sniper units and teams carrying lethal anti-tank rockets. In one eight-hour period that began during the early hours of Sunday, July 20, the IDF suffered 13 dead, seven of them in an armored personnel carrier that caught fire after a Hamas sapper team detonated an anti-tank mine beneath it. When the IDF moved to retrieve the bodies and the stricken APC, Hamas fighters targeted the rescue vehicles and engaged in running gun battles with IDF combat teams as the rescue convoy retreated.

In the early hours of that Sunday morning, with IDF casualties mounting, IDF tank commanders were directed by their senior officers to “take off the gloves” and “to open fire at anything that moves,” according to reports in the Israeli press.

The three Israeli units assaulting Shujaiya were never in danger of being defeated, but the losses the IDF suffered in the four-day house-to-house battle embarrassed IDF commanders. By the afternoon of Saturday, July 19, even before Israel had suffered most of its casualties, the scale of resistance prompted Israeli battlefield commanders to blanket Shujaiya with high-explosive artillery rounds, rockets fired from helicopters and bombs dropped by F-16s. The decision was confirmed at the highest levels of the IDF.

By Sunday night, Palestinian officials were denouncing the bombardment of Shujaiya as a “massacre” while international pressure mounted on the Israeli government to explain the heavy casualty toll being inflicted on Gaza civilians. The IDF told the press that Shujaiya had been a “fortress for Hamas terrorists” and reiterated that while Israel had “warned civilians” to evacuate, “Hamas ordered them to stay. Hamas put them in the line of fire.”


Kerry’s hot-microphone comments reflect the shock among U.S. observers at the scale and lethality of the Israeli bombardment.

“Eleven battalions of IDF artillery is equivalent to the artillery we deploy to support two divisions of U.S. infantry,” a senior Pentagon officer with access to the daily briefings told me. “That’s a massive amount of firepower and it’s absolutely deadly.” But another officer, a retired artillery commander who served in Iraq, says the Pentagon’s assessment might well have underestimated the firepower the IDF brought to bear on Shujaiya. “This is the equivalent of the artillery we deploy to support a full corps,” he said. “It’s just a huge number of weapons.”

Artillery pieces used during the operation included a mix of Soltam M71 guns and U.S.-manufactured Paladin M109s (a 155 mm howitzer), each of which fires three shells per minute. “The only possible reason for doing that is to kill a lot of people in as short a period of time as possible,” said the senior U.S. military officer who spoke with me about the report. “It’s not mowing the lawn,” he added, referring to a popular IDF term for periodic military operations against Hamas in Gaza. “It’s removing the topsoil.”

“Holy Bejesus,” exclaimed retired Lt. General Robert Gard when told the numbers of artillery pieces and rounds fired during the July 21 action. “That rate of fire over that period of time is astonishing. If the figures are even half right, Israel’s response was absolutely disproportionate.” A West Point graduate, who is veteran of two wars and now the Chairman of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, Gard added that even if Israeli artillery units fired guided munitions, it would have made little difference.

Even the most sophisticated munitions have a circular area of probability, Gard explained, according to which a certain percentage of shells sometimes land dozens or even hundreds of feet from intended targets. Highly trained artillery commanders know this, and compensate for their misses by firing more shells. So, if even 10 percent of the shells fired at combatants in Shujaiya landed close to, but not directly on top of their targets — a higher than average rate of accuracy — that would have meant at least 700 lethal shells landing among the civilian population of Shujaiya during the night of July 20 into June 21. And the kill radius of even the most precisely targeted 155 mm shell is 164 feet. Put another way, as Gard said, “precision weapons aren’t all that precise.”

Senior U.S. officers who are familiar with the battle and Israeli artillery operations, which are modeled on U.S. doctrine, assessed that, based on the rate of artillery fire into Shujaiya overnight Sunday, IDF commanders weren’t precisely targeting Palestinian military formations, as much as laying down an indiscriminate barrage aimed at “cratering” the neighborhood. The cratering operation was designed to collapse the Hamas tunnels discovered when IDF ground units came under fire in the neighborhood. Initially, said the senior U.S. military officer who spoke with me about the military summaries of IDF operations, Israel’s artillery had used “suppressing fire to protect their forward units, but then poured in everything they had — in a kind of walking barrage. Suppressing fire is perfectly defensible — a walking barrage isn’t.”

The Israelis’ own defense of their action reinforced the belief among some senior U.S. officers that artillery fire into Shujaiya had been indiscriminate. That’s because the Israelis explained the civilian casualty toll on the basis that the neighborhood’s non-combatant population had been used as “human shields” because they had been “ordered to stay” in their homes by Hamas after the IDF had warned them to leave.

“Listen, we know what it’s like to kill civilians in war,” said the senior U.S. officer. “Hell, we even put it on the front pages. We call it collateral damage. We absolutely try to minimize it, because we know it turns people against you. Killing civilians is a sure prescription for defeat. But that’s not what the IDF did in Shujaiya on July 21. Human shields? C’mon, just own up to it.”

Why Israel's bombardment of Gaza neighborhood left US officers 'stunned' | Al Jazeera America

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Even American Military was astonished at the amount of firepower IDF used in civilian areas! That is why even John Kerry made angry+sarcastic remarks regarding how "precise" Israeli operations were.

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ALL you guys, this is a must-read!

I wonder how will Israeli-propagandists twist things now when even Pentagon is shocked by the brutality of Israeli forces against innocent Palestinians. Now even Pentagon agrees that excuse of "human shields" is a joke.

-----------------------Israelis murdered Palestinians. Period.
 
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LOL.

Why am I not surprised that a person of your neech caliber is saying this?

Also, Israel wasn't involved in a war. But a massacre as even Pentagon says!

Vcheng, you remain disgusting as before..even with your new username.


This is intellectual dishonesty . Show me where pentagon called it a massacre . Thanks .
 
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You must be ashamed of this comment of yours, if you are left with even an iota of respect for the human life. Congratulations! You have effectively left most biased and racist Zionists behind.

And he's a ''Medical Doctor'' . :D

Cheng.

Using your analogy, if your son gets killed in a mass campus shoot out, you'd only have yourself to blame.
 
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This is intellectual dishonesty . Show me where pentagon called it a massacre . Thanks .

Such intellectual dishonesty is pervasive and indeed encouraged here to force feed the gullible. Please stop expecting anything better, otherwise they will resort to direct personal attacks. :D

Back to the topic, the subsequent discussion only serves to prove what I first said here: War is indeed such a dirty business.
 
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