Obama's India trip could tip power balance: Pak

[CardSharp]

This visit is Obama's first, in the 2 years since he's taken office. I'd think twice before you all jump for joy about how important India is to the US.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

This visit is Obama's first, in the 2 years since he's taken office. I'd think twice before you all jump for joy about how important India is to the US.

We are under no illusions that Obama's visit is anything except pure business , an attempt to benefit the U.S as much as possible in as many different fields ......economic regeneration, using billions of dollars worth of civilian deals , defense deals ....support on U.S regional politics ( Kashmir word and the China word will not be mentioned and a negotiation to further corner Iran and improve relations with Pakistan-bilaterally ).etc

We have never really been sold on the heart-to-heart relationship bit and the shared-democratic-value refrain in all of our history.....

 

[CardSharp]

We are under no illusions that Obama's visit is anything except pure business , an attempt to benefit the U.S as much as possible in as many different fields ......economic regeneration, using billions of dollars worth of civilian deals , defense deals ....support on U.S regional politics ( Kashmir word and the China word will not be mentioned and a negotiation to further corner Iran and improve relations with Pakistan-bilaterally ).etc

We have never really been sold on the heart-to-heart relationship bit and the shared-democratic-value refrain in all of our history.....

I just wonder the interest all of the sudden. If it is all about India's growth, that has been going for the past two years.

 

[StingRoy]

This visit is Obama's first, in the 2 years since he's taken office. I'd think twice before you all jump for joy about how important India is to the US.

It is a purely business trip to boost the American economy... nothing more nothing less... I think the first day's news has more or less highlighted that.
Although many may wish for political announcements on both sides of the border, I think Obama will want to stay clear of that. With his declining approval ratings and many blaming the slow growth during the recovery, getting more business and local employment will remain his top priority during his visit.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

This visit is Obama's first, in the 2 years since he's taken office. I'd think twice before you all jump for joy about how important India is to the US.

The fact of the matter is that Obama has gone to India, with one hand out-stretched; to desperately seek business for the US economy. Which India is in a position to give him. Is that something that Indians should be mournful about ? To that extent (at least), India is important to the US.

 

[indushek]

The fact of the matter is that Obama has gone to India, with one hand out-stretched; to desperately seek business for the US economy. Which India is in a position to give him. Is that something that Indians should be mournful about ? To that extent (at least), India is important to the US.

I would like to add that while the Russians were with us through thick and thin Americans are coming here only when thin!!!

 

[Rain]

hyped fellows: Dont forget that you have bigger economy but you have bigger country to manage, Pak economy is 1/6 of India but its requirements are also 1/6 of india. it defense is 8 billions to 32 bilions of India but PA have low mobilizations costs ~1/10 of india's cost. so is cost of mantenance is far lesser than india army's. in brief Pak needs just 10-12 b a years to maintain the military balance. if India Puts in 200 billions in defense and in response PAK puts in just 50-80 billion in next 15 yrs both armies will be equally well equiped and trained.

Regarding the strategy Pakistan needed for the future balance, all Pakistanis Know it better so no need to bring that issue here at the moment.

( in principle its suit pakistan for long term that WEST and US feed their weakend economies from Indian Pie. because looking at the example of Japan, Asian-tigers and other once promising economies one can see every booming economy slows down after a while thus West and US maintain their supramacy)

 

[Contrarian]

What balance? There was never any comparison, forget balance. Barring the nuclear deterrence and often-touted first use policy, there was never any balance that only Cold War mentality censored everytime with fancy words joining the two nations together as if they're equal.

Denying something and covering it doesn't mean that reality goes away. There was never a power 'balance' and there will never be.

Pakistan has always fancied being the equal of India in every field. Matching India everywhere!

Till the 90's they managed it as well! Pakistan started being indignant 2001 onwards when they started India moving upwards while they remained stuck. They did not like the increasing attention or bargaining power of India.

I still remember how when the Clintons were coming to both India and Pakistan, they were told by their advisors to not do anything in one country that they did not do in the other. SO that they did not offend the sensibilities of Indians or Pakistani's! A balance!

Bush threw all that out of the window and this will now continue.

Things have changed even more. Now Pakistan wants to maintain the last vestiges of the 'balance of power' that they maintained against us-.
Remember how their military operational philosophy has changed as well to reflect this-Earlier Pakistan thought they could defeat India militarily. Right through '47, 60's, etc. Now they talk about 'minimum credible detterence'. I think you can easily spot the change.

Another 10 years and any concept or semblance of a 'balance' would be thrown out the window.

 

[desiman]

What balance of power ? There wasnt any balance in the first place, its a cat and mouse game like always. Its quite amusing how the term "Balance" is used so liberally by Pakistani officials.

 

[Storm Force]

Pakistan trying to even compare to India is a Joke

The nos are skewed completely in every single field be it $$$ Strategic depth.

Nuclear power. Energy , GROWTH OR reserves.

Wat are these Pakistani Politicians talking about...

 

[deckingraj]

hyped fellows: Dont forget that you have bigger economy but you have bigger country to manage, Pak economy is 1/6 of India but its requirements are also 1/6 of india. it defense is 8 billions to 32 bilions of India but PA have low mobilizations costs ~1/10 of india's cost. so is cost of mantenance is far lesser than india army's. in brief Pak needs just 10-12 b a years to maintain the military balance. if India Puts in 200 billions in defense and in response PAK puts in just 50-80 billion in next 15 yrs both armies will be equally well equiped and trained.

Regarding the strategy Pakistan needed for the future balance, all Pakistanis Know it better so no need to bring that issue here at the moment.

( in principle its suit pakistan for long term that WEST and US feed their weakend economies from Indian Pie. because looking at the example of Japan, Asian-tigers and other once promising economies one can see every booming economy slows down after a while thus West and US maintain their supramacy)

See buddy this is your country and you would know what is best for you....However please ponder over the economic conditions of the two countries and try to draw a 10 year plan....I am sure you very well know that economies don't change overnight. When we were facing banruptcy in 1991 we transformed. It took a whopping 10 years to trun out the table. I would say we are still in infacny when it comes to changing the table's viz-a-viz China. How different is your position from India-China context back in 90's????

You are still involved in WOT and it will take some considerable time for you to clean up the mess. Apart from that there is a serious leadership deficit that your country is facing at the moment...With so much dependency on world bank to keep the economy afloat, dependency on US for similar things and the trust deficit b/w Pak and US over WOT is a serious cause of concern. As the time will pass US is going to be more and more assertive regarding how things should be managed in AF, so it is quite right to assume that you need a significant time to clean up the mess...On the other hand there are daily predictions by economic gurus across the world that how India will churn out double digit growth....Look at the time when Pakistan is struggling with poor economy and devastated by floods to such an extent that your PM clearly said Pak is not capable to fix the damage on her own, yet you went ahead and increased your defence budget....Care to think as to why????

The above para speaks volume about the economic woes of Pakistan which is a very important aspect of military balance. There is no doubt that India has always enjoyed numerical superiority with Pak and with such an economic difference there is no doubt that with every passing day we are increasing the quality superiority as well..So ponder how and why there can be balance of power???....Just to give you an example our latest induction(MKI) is going for an MLU at the moment whereas your mainstay JF-17 is still in infancy age..Mind it i am not comparing Air-crafts here...All i am saying is that your latest inductions are in infancy where as our 100+ MKI fleet is going for MLU with few going to become Brahmos capable....Don't you think this kind of speaks where is edge is going??? Now an counter argument can be - Look there might be an edge at the moment but it is a matter of years before we pull it back...Well fair enough question. Now lets look at 10 years from now...

When it comes to future we don't know how things will shape out. All we can do is predict backed with some logic. I will try to bring to your attention some big ticket items

- ABM System
- MMRCA Deal
- Fifth Generation Fighter
- Vikramditya and AC1

In short at the time when we are already in a contract to bring 5 generation fighter in South Asia, PAF is still short of options to put up a plan. Now complemented with lack of funds this is a grave problem, no???? Yes Pak don't need to match India weapon by weapon but you have to upgrade to certain level, no??? If yes then there has to be plan and money for doing that. Don't you think Pak hands are full at the moment to do all that????

The writing is on the wall. Pak is in catch 22 here similar to what India was in 90 viz-a-viz China. China was marching ahead and we were facing bankruptcy. To make matters worse our long term partner USSR broke. With our limited budget and Pak as irritant on other side. This was a nightmare situation. Still we did whatever we can without loosing our focus on economic recovery. Our educational based initiatives in early age of our nation helped us pull through this sensitive time. On top of that we went ahead and improved our relations with China. I don't want to say the obvious but if you are smart enough you would understand how there can be no balance(if at all is there) in South Asia for a considerable time and where Pak priorities should lye....

 

[jha]

MALAY is back...

 

[Rain]

See buddy this is your country and you would know what is best for you....However please ponder over the economic conditions of the two countries and try to draw a 10 year plan....I am sure you very well know that economies don't change overnight. When we were facing banruptcy in 1991 we transformed. It took a whopping 10 years to trun out the table. I would say we are still in infacny when it comes to changing the table's viz-a-viz China. How different is your position from India-China context back in 90's????

You are still involved in WOT and it will take some considerable time for you to clean up the mess. Apart from that there is a serious leadership deficit that your country is facing at the moment...With so much dependency on world bank to keep the economy afloat, dependency on US for similar things and the trust deficit b/w Pak and US over WOT is a serious cause of concern. As the time will pass US is going to be more and more assertive regarding how things should be managed in AF, so it is quite right to assume that you need a significant time to clean up the mess...On the other hand there are daily predictions by economic gurus across the world that how India will churn out double digit growth....Look at the time when Pakistan is struggling with poor economy and devastated by floods to such an extent that your PM clearly said Pak is not capable to fix the damage on her own, yet you went ahead and increased your defence budget....Care to think as to why????

The above para speaks volume about the economic woes of Pakistan which is a very important aspect of military balance. There is no doubt that India has always enjoyed numerical superiority with Pak and with such an economic difference there is no doubt that with every passing day we are increasing the quality superiority as well..So ponder how and why there can be balance of power???....Just to give you an example our latest induction(MKI) is going for an MLU at the moment whereas your mainstay JF-17 is still in infancy age..Mind it i am not comparing Air-crafts here...All i am saying is that your latest inductions are in infancy where as our 100+ MKI fleet is going for MLU with few going to become Brahmos capable....Don't you think this kind of speaks where is edge is going??? Now an counter argument can be - Look there might be an edge at the moment but it is a matter of years before we pull it back...Well fair enough question. Now lets look at 10 years from now...

When it comes to future we don't know how things will shape out. All we can do is predict backed with some logic. I will try to bring to your attention some big ticket items

- ABM System
- MMRCA Deal
- Fifth Generation Fighter
- Vikramditya and AC1

In short at the time when we are already in a contract to bring 5 generation fighter in South Asia, PAF is still short of options to put up a plan. Now complemented with lack of funds this is a grave problem, no???? Yes Pak don't need to match India weapon by weapon but you have to upgrade to certain level, no??? If yes then there has to be plan and money for doing that. Don't you think Pak hands are full at the moment to do all that????

The writing is on the wall. Pak is in catch 22 here similar to what India was in 90 viz-a-viz China. China was marching ahead and we were facing bankruptcy. To make matters worse our long term partner USSR broke. With our limited budget and Pak as irritant on other side. This was a nightmare situation. Still we did whatever we can without loosing our focus on economic recovery. Our educational based initiatives in early age of our nation helped us pull through this sensitive time. On top of that we went ahead and improved our relations with China. I don't want to say the obvious but if you are smart enough you would understand how there can be no balance(if at all is there) in South Asia for a considerable time and where Pak priorities should lye....

If you can recover from bankrupcy in 20 yrs and able to rub shoulders with China, what prevent Pakistan from doing the same( atleast in Principle).!!

 

[karan.1970]

If you can recover from bankrupcy in 20 yrs and able to rub shoulders with China, what prevent Pakistan from doing the same( atleast in Principle).!!

Nothing.. If you start acting on moving away from existing military driven policies that are holding Pakistan back...

 

[Rafi]

We had 8.4 percent growth just a couple of years ago, so it is not far fetched - military spending will remain high and probably increase year on year, don't forget Pakistan's Allies such as the US and China - hugely subsidise our Defence Budget, by about 5 billion a year, in terms of weapons and equipment.