Obama's India trip could tip power balance: Pak

[Tshering22]

The delicate balance of power between nuclear-armed neighbours India and Pakistan faces the risk of being upset by US President Barack Obama's four-day visit to India beginning Saturday, Pakistani officials have warned. Obama's decision to visit India while bypassing Pakistan has sparked anxiety among government officials in Islamabad, The Washington Post reported. The officials have warned that the trip risks upsetting the delicate balance of power between the two countries.

What balance? There was never any comparison, forget balance. Barring the nuclear deterrence and often-touted first use policy, there was never any balance that only Cold War mentality censored everytime with fancy words joining the two nations together as if they're equal.

Denying something and covering it doesn't mean that reality goes away. There was never a power 'balance' and there will never be.

 

[Tshering22]

DRDO,BDL,ISRO off the BAN list..Dual use agreement gone..
support in NSG,MTCR and Australia group membership...

Nothing remarkable if you ask me...Just business as usual between companies of two countries..

Wait for Republicans to return; we will have these in our pockets as well. Besides, we already have dual tech use agreement with Russia. I think in that in coming years we won't need to worry about it at all since most of this dual use tech would be home built.

 

[Tshering22]

"We expect America to use its influence to nudge India in the direction of initiating a peaceful dialogue on the Kashmir situation," said Tariq Fatemi, a former Pakistani ambassador to the US. "And if that is difficult, then at least use your position to point out to India that the interest in human rights is deep and broad-based in America and you cannot have daily violations of human rights," Fatemi said.

There was never any dispute in Kashmir except Pakistan desperately wanting it under various fanciful names like "azadi" etc. Uttering the K-word will be the last hiccup in the long list of hiccups that have happened between White House officials and GOI already.

I am sure that apart from influence, even BO isn't too keen on endorsing sponsored terrorism in our state.

 

[Rain]

Hold on for a second, few extra pennies in some one pocket does not make it a power! Pakistan and India had a balance of Power in the region. it tilted only recently (last 10 years). due to irresponsible atitude of corrupted Govts pakistan had. give Pak a ten years and you will see the balance of power politics back in south asia. the reason you ppl are in high octaine Mood is that you have had steady economic progress in India for last decade where Pakistna did not, keep it in mind things will not be the same.

 

[Tshering22]

i think all us apologists need t understand this

while we are spilling our blood india is getting ALL the breaks.

What spilling of blood? TTP as you claim is different from Afghanistan Taliban and therefore is a terrorist unit that formed as a group of bandits, away from all politics that simply want to attack your government. So you've been spilling your blood for your own countrymen so far. Please tell me, how is saving your citizens from a non Af-Taliban associated terrorist outfit like TTP a favour to the NATO/US forces? As all Pakistanis here say TTP's objectives are anti-Pakistan and this means that they're totally different from the war that US is fighting in Afghanistan.

Your fight against terrorists in tribal regions is for your own cities and your citizens. Other than transit of supplies (for which NATO pays you a heavy rent) what blood is being spilt?

I still don't understand this "we're during for US" policy when Pak military is fighting against TTP for its own people.

And what's with we getting "all the breaks"? You're talking as if Obama gifted us a 1,000 F-22s with 100% tech transfer for free . BO's here in India for economic and trade purposes; mainly to increase our investment in US companies, create new mergers and JVs and increase jobs in US while trying to ease the recent outsourcing demon that Democrats foolishly raised by accident.

It is a mutual benefit scheme where we get hi-fi stuff and US gets jobs making them. What's so disappointing about this? If you can create jobs in US, be our guest to welcome BO to Pakistan.

its time we stop pretending that pak and us are allies, not only are they sucking us into a war they are strengthening our enemies

You've not sent your troops to Afghanistan and the only part where you're playing a role is channeling supplies for NATO through your region. Years of assistance has perhaps clouded your thinking that all visits are for donation only. We're giving something in exchange for getting something; its pure business. Wonder what you're angry for.

 

[Von Hölle]

Hold on for a second, few extra pennies in some one pocket does not make it a power! Pakistan and India had a balance of Power in the region. it tilted only recently (last 10 years). due to irresponsible atitude of corrupted Govts pakistan had. give Pak a ten years and you will see the balance of power politics back in south asia. the reason you ppl are in high octaine Mood is that you have had steady economic progress in India for last decade where Pakistna did not, keep it in mind things will not be the same.

Well what you are calling as few extra pennies is eight times of what you have in your pockets ..in another 5 yrs it will 10 times..I don't see gap b/w India and Pakistan reducing .... even if you manage an economic growth rate of 10% ..then also this gap will be steadily increasing.

 

[Tshering22]

Hold on for a second, few extra pennies in some one pocket does not make it a power! Pakistan and India had a balance of Power in the region. it tilted only recently (last 10 years) due to irresponsible atitude of corrupted Govts pakistan had.

What power balance? This was an illusion that US created for you until Cold war was over, your government was brought down to cold, hard earth unpleasantly. US aid, NATO support and economic assistance, which was stopped in 90s for you. On the other hand India was on her own as we refused to subscribe to Communist ideology, we had limited level (but very liberally considerable) of assistance from USSR that was "friendly cooperation" rather than outright "doing work for the other".

Give Pak a ten years and you will see the balance of power politics back in south asia. the reason you ppl are in high octaine Mood is that you have had steady economic progress in India for last decade where Pakistna did not, keep it in mind things will not be the same.

Take as long as you want as it is your country and your responsibility. Economic growth doesn't drop in from the sky. One has to create conditions for which economy has to grow. You're talking as if we have angels for politicians. Our politicians are worse than yours in corruption. The progress is simply because we started pressing and focusing education-oriented economy and despite having a command structure Soviet style were able to transform economic development.

You were never a Socialist command economy; always were an open liberal economy since the Cold war like Turkey and pre-Revolution Iran and always had all the conditions favouring you for development in social as well as cultural and political aspects. But you never took the chance.

That's the difference.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

second part of Tshering22 post is quite accurate and on point.....i'd blame the policy makers; i'd blame the corruption; i'd blame a weak tax collection rate as I would blame external circumstances (externalities) beyond our locus of control

with right leadership that is strong, and with favourable security environment I see no reason why we can't have another period of progress and enlightenment




as for indian politicians being MORE corrupt than Pakistani ones ---well that is up for debate under current 'arrangement' IMHO

 

[LeGenD]

second part of Tshering22 post is quite accurate and on point.....i'd blame the policy makers; i'd blame the corruption; i'd blame a weak tax collection rate as I would blame external circumstances (externalities) beyond our locus of control

with right leadership that is strong, and with favourable security environment I see no reason why we can't have another period of progress and enlightenment

Agreed!

As unfortunate as it seems, Tshering22 has raised very valid points. Some of the major problems in Pakistan are Gunda Raaj, Extremism, and Corruption. Then we also have no less quantity of misguided zealots who have become the driving force of these problems. Not just the politicians but lots of influential and elite are busy in expanding their own properties rather than fighting for the cause of the greater good in Pakistan. Due to these factors, this nation has not been able to make any progress. The sheer level of hypocracy is baffling in this nation. I agree that we cannot blame other factors for our miserable conditions but ourselves.

as for indian politicians being MORE corrupt than Pakistani ones ---well that is up for debate under current 'arrangement' IMHO

Don't know about this but Indians do know how to honor their heroes (e.g. They made Abdul Kalam, their president) while we know how to surpress ours.

 

[Tshering22]

Agreed!

As unfortunate as it seems, Tshering22 has raised very valid points. Some of the major problems in Pakistan are Gunda Raaj, Extremism, and Corruption. Then we also have no less quantity of misguided zealots who have become the driving force of these problems. Not just the politicians but lots of influential and elite are busy in expanding their own properties rather than fighting for the cause of the greater good in Pakistan. Due to these factors, this nation has not been able to make any progress. The sheer level of hypocracy is baffling in this nation. I agree that we cannot blame other factors for our miserable conditions but ourselves.


Don't know about this but Indians do know how to honor their heroes (e.g. They made Abdul Kalam, their president) while we know how to surpress ours.

If this same thing that you said is realized by your industry leaders, you can easily become the second Turkey of Asia. You've fine natural resources, a small population, a homogenized society, social potential and many other factors.

All it takes is an ideological revolution to change the world.

 

[Storm Force]

There is no BALANCE in south Asia ONLY IMBALANCE

India,s $1.3 trillion GDP v Pakistans $170 billion
India $290 bilion forex versis Pakistans $16 billion
India,s growth rate at 9% versis Pakistan at 4.5 %
India,s $32 billion military budget versis Pakistans $6 billion
India $30 billion FDI versis Pakistans $8 billion

NOW YOU CAN HIDE BEHIND
you have more mouths to feed
we have smaller country to defend
we are similar per ca[pita income
we are braver or more skilled

__________________________________

BUT THE FACT REMAINS india is a Part of the G20 (top industrail nations on earth) at NO 11th and growing very quickly

BY 2020 this GAP will enormous because NOTHING will change in Pakistan#
Same military & ISI stranglehold
no FDI
no money to invest on growth
internal strife with various factions
mistrust of the west and America
AND WOT will drain pakistans already small resources

THAT IS THE REAL DELICATE BALANCE...

 

[I want GIRLS!]

There is no BALANCE in south Asia ONLY IMBALANCE

India,s $1.3 trillion GDP v Pakistans $170 billion
India $290 bilion forex versis Pakistans $16 billion
India,s growth rate at 9% versis Pakistan at 4.5 %
India,s $32 billion military budget versis Pakistans $6 billion
India $30 billion FDI versis Pakistans $8 billion

NOW YOU CAN HIDE BEHIND
you have more mouths to feed
we have smaller country to defend
we are similar per ca[pita income
we are braver or more skilled

__________________________________

BUT THE FACT REMAINS india is a Part of the G20 (top industrail nations on earth) at NO 11th and growing very quickly

BY 2020 this GAP will enormous because NOTHING will change in Pakistan#
Same military & ISI stranglehold
no FDI
no money to invest on growth
internal strife with various factions
mistrust of the west and America
AND WOT will drain pakistans already small resources

THAT IS THE REAL DELICATE BALANCE...

Indian GDP in PPP is 3.24 trillions (2009 august).
Its better to evaluate in this terms.
(Wiki,said it to me!)

 

[Peacefull]

Hold on for a second, few extra pennies in some one pocket does not make it a power! Pakistan and India had a balance of Power in the region. it tilted only recently (last 10 years). due to irresponsible atitude of corrupted Govts pakistan had. give Pak a ten years and you will see the balance of power politics back in south asia. the reason you ppl are in high octaine Mood is that you have had steady economic progress in India for last decade where Pakistna did not, keep it in mind things will not be the same.

Could you kindly describe the strategies pak may have or could be used to equal the balance of power in Asia ?

 

[Peacefull]

second part of Tshering22 post is quite accurate and on point.....i'd blame the policy makers; i'd blame the corruption; i'd blame a weak tax collection rate as I would blame external circumstances (externalities) beyond our locus of control

with right leadership that is strong, and with favourable security environment I see no reason why we can't have another period of progress and enlightenment




as for indian politicians being MORE corrupt than Pakistani ones ---well that is up for debate under current 'arrangement' IMHO

For pakistan major irritant is kashmir, it would be impossible for any one to come to power without mentioning K word,

Pakistan has systematically alinged her population towards K usinig religion and ideology, on the other hand thugs like ttp are easily sold to anyone who pays,

So tell me how would pak jump of this quagmire and bounce back to development without forgetting K, if you keep K alive, there will be more people willing to pay ttp to keep pak busy fighting between themselves.

 

[Peacefull]

There is no BALANCE in south Asia ONLY IMBALANCE

India,s $1.3 trillion GDP v Pakistans $170 billion
India $290 bilion forex versis Pakistans $16 billion
India,s growth rate at 9% versis Pakistan at 4.5 %
India,s $32 billion military budget versis Pakistans $6 billion
India $30 billion FDI versis Pakistans $8 billion

NOW YOU CAN HIDE BEHIND
you have more mouths to feed
we have smaller country to defend
we are similar per ca[pita income
we are braver or more skilled

__________________________________

BUT THE FACT REMAINS india is a Part of the G20 (top industrail nations on earth) at NO 11th and growing very quickly

BY 2020 this GAP will enormous because NOTHING will change in Pakistan#
Same military & ISI stranglehold
no FDI
no money to invest on growth
internal strife with various factions
mistrust of the west and America
AND WOT will drain pakistans already small resources

THAT IS THE REAL DELICATE BALANCE...

Storm you forgot to add one more thing!

Unfriendly neighbours !