Obama 'to expand drone strikes' in Pakistan

[Bushy]

What the hell is this?

Why Pakistan cannot just tell America loud and clear that they are not allowed to do this?

If India moves a muscle, the politicians declare it a war situation at once. But USA is f*cking the country like anything and all you have got to say is - "we will cut the supply lines"? If one country bombs the lands of other country without proper permissions, then its nothing but a war.

If Pakistanis don't wake up even now, USA is going to bomb Quetta. Make no mistake there. GoP is just incapable of resisting USA on the table. If you really don't want to see drones flying above Quetta, then its time to put all the pressure in the world on GoP.

Man, to me it appears they are asleep behind their computer screens. I have read 100s (no exaggeration here) of articles written by Pakistanis calling the attacks illegal, and condemning the GoP for allowing this.But only in blogs! Their surprising lethargy goes as far as to ask the PA to take over - through their blogs, or by joining some completely non-serious facebook groups. It is nothing more than making fun of the drone victims.

Not a single Pakistani or a even group have I seen that has gone far enough to get out of the comforts of his bedroom and file a litigation seeking straight answers from the government!

 

[Balance]

My dear Pakistani friends, I am happy that there is something on which you agree with me.

But that's not going to help. 'What you think' has NO importance now. All that matters is 'what you do'.

Please don't take me wrong here. But I'll say "IshaAllah" is the word responsible for this state. Every post I read, every article, blog, interviews I go through, everything ends with this word. And I believe that words have their effect. And they affect the one who says them more than those who listen.

Yes, it's the word of hope. But what's the use if the same word is stopping you from actions? How can you expect Allah to do everything for you? Stop being dependent on politicians, courts, media, government, angels, miracles and Allah.

Why don't you people just come on street and make GoP hear your voice? Internet is not going to help. I don't think Zardari even reads anything from Internet. You need to question GoP directly.

What you get now from 'online protests' are electric bills and bandwidth charges.

 

[Barrett]

But these drone attacks are killing alot of innocent pakistanis, dont they? GoP tried alot to protest against these attacks but took them nowhere.

Yes these drones are killing alot of innocent civilians and thats exactly what my point is. As far as the GOP is concerned they could have made U.S stop these attacks but the innocent civilians are the least of their concerns.

 

[BlackenTheSky]

Im With you Stealth. 100%. My Uncle died in the recent Mosque attack in rawalpindi. It was said that they were terorists. But it was also said that there were security people there too but they didnt make no effort in Catching them. I mean WTF

I am sorry for your uncle,but he wasnt killed by drone strike..it was terrorist attack

 

[Barrett]

Obama refuses to rule out drone attacks in Quetta
By Anwar Iqbal
Tuesday, 15 Dec, 2009

WASHINGTON: President Barack Obama has warned that the United States would launch strikes inside Pakistan if it had actionable intelligence about the presence of top Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders in a particular area.

His statement – included in the transcript of an interview released on Monday – contradicts earlier US media reports that President Obama opposed drone attacks at suspected Taliban targets in and around Quetta.

Mr Obama made the statement when he was reminded that for almost a year officials in his administration had been saying that the Taliban leadership was now somewhere in Quetta and yet he was reluctant to call in drones to target those leaders.

‘Well I don’t want to comment on certain sensitive aspects to our efforts in this border region. I think it is fair to say, number one, that my principle – and I articulated this in the campaign – is if we’ve got actual war intelligence on high-ranking Al Qaeda leaders, or for that matter high-ranking Taliban leaders who are directing actions against US troops –then we will take action,’ Mr Obama told CBS’s Steve Kroft.’Now, a lot of this border region is big and complicated. And even a city like Quetta is a big city. And, you know, we have to respect the sovereignty of Pakistan as we engage in potential actions that would involve going into a major metropolitan area with a lot of civilians around it. We expect Pakistan to cooperate more effectively in the future than they have in the past,’ he added.

Mr Obama pointed out that the US would like Pakistan to recognize the degree to which the presence of such elements inside its borders threatened its own stability. ‘This isn’t America’s war. This isn’t the West’s war. This is a situation in which you’ve got a very dangerous, extremist network that is growing, and right now is killing more Pakistanis than anybody else,’ he said.

The Pakistani public and the military were both turning against the militants and it grew with the threat. ‘But it takes some time to operationalise, and our hope is that we see progress over the next couple of years,’ he added.

‘Do you believe the Pakistanis have any appetite for going into Quetta and finding Mullah Omar?’ he was asked.

‘I think that the Pakistanis recognize that these networks are killing Pakistanis a lot more than they’re killing Americans right now, and that it’s in their interest to start moving in a new direction. How fast they do that in part is gonna depend on how effectively we can partner with them,’ said Mr Obama.

Meanwhile, the Newsweek reported on Monday that President Obama had ‘nixed the expansion’ of drone strikes to Quetta.

‘Five administration officials tell Newsweek that the president has sided with political and diplomatic advisers who argue that widening the scope of the drone attacks would be risky and unwise,’ the report said.

‘Mr Obama is concerned that firing missiles into urban areas like Quetta, where intelligence reports suggest that Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar and other high-level militants have sometimes taken shelter, would greatly increase the risk of civilian casualties.’

But the Los Angeles Times reported that the Obama administration was leaning towards expanding the drone war to places like Quetta.

‘The concern has created tension among Obama administration officials over whether unmanned aircraft strikes in a city of 850,000 are a realistic option,’ the newspaper noted. ‘Proponents, including some military leaders, argue that attacking the Taliban in Quetta — or at least threatening to do so — is crucial to the success of the revised war strategy President Obama unveiled last week.’

A senior US official involved in the deliberations told LAT that it’s all about sending a message to the Taliban. ‘What the Pakistanis have to do is tell the Taliban that there is too much pressure from the US,’ the officials said. ‘We can’t allow you to have sanctuary inside Pakistan anymore.’

In his interview to CBS, Mr Obama also said that ever since occupying the White House, his administration had been trying to convince Pakistan that it was terrorism and not India which posed a threat to the country and thus impressing upon Islamabad to shift more troops from its eastern border with India to its western front.

‘We have had very detailed and serious conversations with the Pakistan government and the Pakistan military about the fact that their traditional orientation, which has been to compete with India, has now been overtaken by extremists within their own midst that are exploding bombs with impunity throughout Pakistan,’ he said.

DAWN.COM | World | Obama refuses to rule out drone attacks in Quetta

 

[S-2]

"Your arrogance have no boundaries, there were nations before you and there probably will be after."

There's nothing arrogant about holding to the principle that each country claiming sovereign authority does so over all its lands and peoples. In so claiming, that country incurs the responsibility for their actions against immediate neighbors.

Long-held principles of diplomacy have been built around both sovereignty and, specifically here, sanctuary and its implications to the use of proxies and the availability. Most nations understand the principles and the subsequent generation of order and geo-political stability that result from abiding by these rules. Some don't.

Taliban sanctuary within Pakistan from which war has been made on Afghanistan and ISAF has LONG preceded the use of PREDATOR as a self-defense measure. That right is reserved by any nation to protect its forces or allies.

Arrogance indeed. Knowing the facts of the matter, sir, might help your argument considerably. As it is, Pakistan's gov't and its citizens willfully blind self-righteousness isn't washing much these days for a variety of grounded facts.

Whether Omar is or isn't in Quetta isn't relevant either. At his age and infirmed state, he's one step removed from the condition of Jalaluddin Haqqani. Both figureheads. OTOH, their operational cadres are very much alive in Miram Shah and between Quetta and Kandahar. That's a lot of land that hasn't a damned thing to do with Quetta specifically but doesn't mean that its friendly accomodations are any less valuable nor necessary.

Meet the taliban's operational #2, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar-

Meet the Taliban's #2- July 29, 2009 Newsweek

He spends plenty of time in the Quetta-Kandahar-Lashkar Gal region.

Agnostic Muslim likes quoting a McChrystal maxim that sanctuary doesn't guarantee a taliban victory. My retort is 1.) This maxim is premised on the existence of such in Pakistan and, 2.) My counter-retort to the good general and A.M. is that this externally-directed insurgency has no traction whatsoever without sanctuary.

As weak and corrupt as the Karzai gov't was and is, this insurgency would have been defeated between 2002 and 2006- even with the preponderance of American forces then heading to Iraq. Had the taliban not obtained sanctuary from which they recruited, replenished, and re-trained for their return and from where their key operational and strategic leaders still reside, I seriously question anything remotely approaching the magnitude of the problem now.

So do most other careful observers in forty other involved nations.

Thanks.

 

[KillBill]

Civilians are killed, nevertheless.

They always do, In any war the civilians bound to suffer in more than one way. Can you cite any war where the civil casualty is ZERO?

There is a saying in Hindi " Haathi ke ladhai mein ghans hi jyada martey hain"

Meaning in the war of elephants the grass suffers the most

 

[Aslan]

There's nothing arrogant about holding to the principle that each country claiming sovereign authority does so over all its lands and peoples. In so claiming, that country incurs the responsibility for their actions against immediate neighbors.

Exactly then you should write a letter to your senator and tell him to pressure the congress to stop the aggression actions against IRAQ, stop supporting Israel against Palestinians, Afghanistan and many other issues likewise. I am not going to debate over much but seriously when lecturing other one should hold a moral high ground. And that is why I said look into the mirror when talking about the proxies. Remember Mohammad Mossadeq try googling the name.


Long-held principles of diplomacy have been built around both sovereignty and, specifically here, sanctuary and its implications to the use of proxies and the availability. Most nations understand the principles and the subsequent generation of order and geo-political stability that result from abiding by these rules. Some don't.

Read My above answer and again Google Mohammad Mossadeq


Taliban sanctuary within Pakistan from which war has been made on Afghanistan and ISAF has LONG preceded the use of PREDATOR as a self-defense measure. That right is reserved by any nation to protect its forces or allies.

This one was the funniest it reminded me of Colin Powel when he was barking like a dog in front of the UN about how there are WMD's in Iraq. Funny eh. I guess nothing changed now your gov is just running in a counter clockwise direction when chasing the tail.



Arrogance indeed. Knowing the facts of the matter, sir, might help your argument considerably. As it is, Pakistan's its citizens willfully blind self-righteousness isn't washing much these days for a variety of grounded facts.

Just like the Yanks when they listen to the warmongers in DC. you guys lost all the logic and are still lost, try cutting back on the likes of Glen Beck and Michael Savage it will help trust me.

Whether Omar is or isn't in Quetta isn't relevant either, at his age and infirmed state, he's one step removed from the condition of Jalaluddin Haqqani. Both figureheads. OTOH, their operational cadres are very much alive in Miram Shah and between Quetta and Kandahar. That's a lot of land that hasn't a damned thing to do with Quetta specifically but doesn't mean that its friendly accomodations are any less valuable nor necessary.

So what do you suggest we go looking for the WMD's there too now you know what I mean by that.

Meet the taliban's operational #2, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar- Meet the Taliban's #2- July 29, 2009 Newsweek He spends plenty of time in the Quetta-Kandahar-Lashkar Gal region. Agnostic Muslim likes quoting a McChrystal maxim that sanctuary doesn't guarantee a taliban victory. My retort is 1.) This maxim is premised on the existence of such in Pakistan and, 2.) My counter-retort to the good general and A.M. is that this externally-directed insurgency has no traction whatsoever without sanctuary. As weak and corrupt as the Karzai gov't was and is, this insurgency would have been defeated between 2002 and 2006- even with the preponderance of American forces then heading to Iraq. Had the taliban not obtained sanctuary from which they recruited, replenished, and re-trained for their return and from where their key operational and strategic leaders still reside, I seriously question anything remotely approaching the magnitude of the problem now. So do most other careful observers in forty other involved nations.

See the problem is I am simple man with simple simple understanding of the world and get completely lost when presented with Gibberish.

Thanks.

Hope you have a nice evening from my side a good morning to you and it was nice talking to you.

 

[Aslan]

Then develop some bania mentality. Better than getting your citizens blow away everyday.


Do you think that you have your Gherat and Izat in getting whipped everyday by drone strikes of which you protest but no one cares.

You talk Gherat and Izat and you sold your Afghan brothers safety for some American Dollars when you brought America


Does Gherat and Izat lies in what you call the everyday suicide bombings.

You Gherat and Izat with the politicians with Pakistan on sale.

Outside your Pakistan tell anyone you guys have Gherat and Izat, dont ask kafirs ask your own brothers then come back to us.


your Gherat and Izat can be seen everyday torn apart by TTP at one end, Afghans at another, US at another and Indians at another .

I couldnt find what was so funny that you had to put up a smiley with that, so you are sick to that level.

 

[waraich66]

Then develop some bania mentality. Better than getting your citizens blow away everyday.


Do you think that you have your Gherat and Izat in getting whipped everyday by drone strikes of which you protest but no one cares.

You talk Gherat and Izat and you sold your Afghan brothers safety for some American Dollars when you brought America


Does Gherat and Izat lies in what you call the everyday suicide bombings.

You Gherat and Izat with the politicians with Pakistan on sale.

Outside your Pakistan tell anyone you guys have Gherat and Izat, dont ask kafirs ask your own brothers then come back to us.


your Gherat and Izat can be seen everyday torn apart by TTP at one end, Afghans at another, US at another and Indians at another .

Jala gu jasam dil bhi jal gia hu ga
tatolty hu go rakh akir justujo kia hai

We can not build bania mentality that is why we get seperate home land known as Pakistan.


Please first understand the meaning of Izat and Gerat then argue with me.

I know this animal is rare in your country lolz

 

[S-2]

"See the problem is I am simple man with simple simple understanding of the world..."

Your reply was a rant that held no relevance to the topic at hand and displayed an exhaustion of rational thought on the topic.

Please stay on topic if possible.

When you wish to discuss the importance of sanctuary to this insurgency without the attendant hysteria to your diatribe, I might take my valuable time to read your thoughts again. Until then, buckwheat, ain't happenin' but once.

Moreover, don't hold your breath waiting for those supply lines to dry up however much you and I would like to see-though for different reasons.

"Hope you have a nice evening from my side a good morning to you and it was nice talking to you."

Likewise, I'm sure.

Thanks.

 

[Aslan]

"See the problem is I am simple man with simple simple understanding of the world..."

Your reply was a rant that held no relevance to the topic at hand and displayed an exhaustion of rational thought on the topic.

Please stay on topic if possible.

When you wish to discuss the importance of sanctuary to this insurgency without the attendant hysteria to your diatribe, I might take my valuable time to read your thoughts again. Until then, buckwheat, ain't happenin' but once.

Moreover, don't hold your breath waiting for those supply lines to dry up however much you and I would like to see-though for different reasons.

"Hope you have a nice evening from my side a good morning to you and it was nice talking to you."

Likewise, I'm sure.

Thanks.

How was it a rant when I had answered in a very simple manner to your lecture on Democrazy. I know past is a painful doze, and yes what the US had been doing in the past matters. So when I talk about Mohammad Mossadeq as an example it holds ground I am not ranting about stuff I just giving you one of many examples that the mighty US is as guilty of the deeds as it accuses others off and that dear sir is not off topic.



Lets discuss the Sanctuaries issues, do you as US have any prove that you are accusing us of. Right under your arm the Indians are destabilizing (or are accused of doing so) Pakistan. What are you as Americans as the responsible party doing?
Right under your the US's watchful eyes opium trade is flourishing, tell me sir what is your country doing?
Right under your democratic watch Bush invaded a country on false grounds, What sir were you doing?
Right under the 40 ISAF countries democratic control you have place a thug on the helm of affairs in Afghanistan. Tell me sir what are you doing?
And there are 1million such questions tell me what are you doing?


Do something before asking to do more.

 

[abbasniazi]

Sticking to the topic, i feel...

Its american strategy to send in feelers before taking actions, just to see the level of understanding of the issues by the masses, their expected reaction level, their counter-strategy actions and reactions etc.

USA is doing the same, the date for withdrawl of US troops from afghanistan has been announced and US might be serious in this context, however, US might have given the same deadline to its strategists and planners to level the ground in the forthcoming 18 months for a solid basis to invade pakistan or some troubled parts of pakistan.

USA might have told Pentagon about its constraints to convince international community for more invasion unless untill it comes out with irrefuteable reasons for such an act.

Pakistan must stop USA right here or it'd go a long way for its destruction.

 

[S-2]

"Lets discuss the Sanctuaries issues, do you as US have any prove that you are accusing us of."

Your own Daily Times has said-

"The Haqqani shura based in North Waziristan is widely believed to be openly working with al Qaeda."

Who am I to argue-except to add that NYT reporter David Rohde was kidnapped and held by this same group in the Miram Shah area? That's just open sourced and topical evidence even you could know about. Sure beats what's been provided about the Indians in Afghanistan.

"Right under your arm the Indians are destabilizing (or are accused of doing so) Pakistan."

This is an important component of the Pakistani information war, primarily created for domestic consumption. Your government has made no case that has stood the light of day on this matter and until they go public with their evidence there remains none.

This despite Afghanistan awash in NGOs and independant correspondents that have no love for America and yet not one has produced one iota of confirming information to the Pakistani narrrative.

"Right under your the US's watchful eyes opium trade is flourishing, tell me sir what is your country doing?"

You seem unaware that UNODC data shows that for two successive years Afghanistan has shown marked decreases in opium cultivation. The correlation between the taliban and dope is undeniable and reaches back to their days of control and governance within Afghanistan. With the cessation of the taliban, there's no generation of opium to fuel a war.

Don't believe me? Check the data about where and when opium blew up. Helmand and 2006. Most of Afghanistan today is opium free. The taliban-controlled areas of Helmand, though, are a different matter and it's no coincidence.

That's how the taliban set then-world record opium cultivation records in 1999 when they controlled Afghanistan. No bigger warlords or dopelords than your proxy devils.

"Right under your democratic watch Bush invaded a country on false grounds, What sir were you doing?"

Democratic? Afghanistan? How stupid are you?

"Right under the 40 ISAF countries democratic control you have place a thug on the helm of affairs in Afghanistan. Tell me sir what are you doing?"

Karzai in no way resembles your President. He has no criminal record at all.

"And there are 1million such questions tell me what are you doing?"

Giving afghans a chance to determine their future that few Pakistanis might ever consent to on their own. That wasn't America which recognized a taliban regime matched only be few for its simple barbarism.

Simple. There's that word again.

"Do something before asking to do more."

Do anything at all without asking for more.

Thanks.

 

[Aslan]

"Lets discuss the Sanctuaries issues, do you as US have any prove that you are accusing us of."

Your own Daily Times has said-

"The Haqqani shura based in North Waziristan is widely believed to be openly working with al Qaeda."

And so they say many other things along side accusing India for every thing so I guess then you don't pick and chose the information that you want o believe in do you.

Who am I to argue-except to add that NYT reporter David Rohde was kidnapped and held by this same group in the Miram Shah area? That's just open sourced and topical evidence even you could know about. Sure beats what's been provided about the Indians in Afghanistan.

How many people have disappeared under the US war on terror BS have you kept count. So lets not beat around that bush shall we.


"Right under your arm the Indians are destabilizing (or are accused of doing so) Pakistan."

This is an important component of the Pakistani information war, primarily created for domestic consumption. Your government has made no case that has stood the light of day on this matter and until they go public with their evidence there remains none.

I guess you should have gone back and read what I had put in the bracket or are you that stupid.


This despite Afghanistan awash in NGOs and independant correspondents that have no love for America and yet not one has produced one iota of confirming information to the Pakistani narrrative.

"Right under your the US's watchful eyes opium trade is flourishing, tell me sir what is your country doing?"

We all know the truth about that, what a lame excuse of a human being are you. An entire country is under the control of the Americans and you are giving me facts that that crap has decreased. Wow.

You seem unaware that UNODC data shows that for two successive years Afghanistan has shown marked decreases in opium cultivation. The correlation between the taliban and dope is undeniable and reaches back to their days of control and governance within Afghanistan. With the cessation of the taliban, there's no generation of opium to fuel a war.

Don't believe me? Check the data about where and when opium blew up. Helmand and 2006. Most of Afghanistan today is opium free. The taliban-controlled areas of Helmand, though, are a different matter and it's no coincidence.

Thats why the other day the UN was saying that the opion coming from Afghanistan is at its peak.

That's how the taliban set then-world record opium cultivation records in 1999 when they controlled Afghanistan. No bigger warlords or dopelords than your proxy devils.

Exactly the same devils who the white house was in bed with. right right

"Right under your democratic watch Bush invaded a country on false grounds, What sir were you doing?"

Democratic? Afghanistan? How stupid are you?

Just below your level. But if I keep talking to you I will surely get there. Read it again what I had put down you idiot(mind if I call you that, shouldn't cause you started it).
I worte that your country is a democracy and right then a president of yours went to war with a country on false grounds you oxy moron that country was Iraq.


"Right under the 40 ISAF countries democratic control you have place a thug on the helm of affairs in Afghanistan. Tell me sir what are you doing?"

Karzai in no way resembles your President. He has no criminal record at all.

Yes we have an @$$ ruling our country that is endorsed and supported by yours, we had a dictator in place supported by your country heck your president could stop praising him at times. So save the bs for some one else. Yes Karzai the angle ask the afghans about it. Didn't he just steal an election, and yes still endorsed and supported proudly by your country.


And there are 1million such questions tell me what are you doing?

Giving afghans a chance to determine there future that few Pakistanis might ever consent to on their own. That wasn't America which recognized a taliban regime matched only be few for its simple barbarism.

Yes give them a chance, have you tried that so far. Ask them today if they want your proxy the Karzai ruling them.

Simple. There's that word again.

Exactly my point.

"Do something before asking to do more."

Do anything at all without asking for more.



Thanks.

No let me tell you something I might have said that we had a good discussion but had to agree to disagree because there is a cultural difference between us and we will not be able to understand each others point of view. But on the contrary you had to resort to name calling. That just showed how lame of a human you are, now listen I am not going to answer you after this cause you my friend are not even worth it. Just because you have a god give right to be a burden on your country living in the trailer gulping beer and surviving on SS does not mean that you impose you crap on others. See I can throw insults too, but I think that you are not even worth them.