NYT: The Specter of Caste in Silicon Valley

[alhindi]

The alarming side note in all this, is that if the caste system has been imported and actively practiced in the US, then such upper caste Hindus in positions of power would likely also be discriminating against the people of color (African Americans etc) and Muslims, as they did back in India.

Hindus and muslims all are involved in persecution of dalits .they all consider themselves above chamars in caste hiararchy. Same situation is i pakistan , kammi kamin chura, chamar , masihis and other lower castes are treated as low caste rajils .

 

[Sharma Ji]

Nah ..they will amount to nothing in usa. Indianness in usa is just being a butler.

She's a Trump appointee and extremely anti affirmative action and pro meritocracy, which is relevant to this topic.

You Pakistani ?

High caste or not, why do these US born ABCD bitches (I mean, good women) have to look so disgusting, (I mean, pleasant)

Here's some bits about her:

https://www.pfaw.org/blog-posts/neomi-rao-and-affirmative-action-another-reason-to-oppose/

https://morningconsult.com/opinions...ass-given-her-appalling-track-record-on-race/

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/neomi-rao-controversial.html

https://civilrights.org/resource/op...appeals-for-the-district-of-columbia-circuit/

https://www.abajournal.com/news/art...llege-writings-on-race-feminism-and-date-rape

https://www.naacpldf.org/naacp-publications/ldf-blog/neomi-rao-showed-us-college-believe/

"Views on Affirmative Action and Racial Justice
In an editorial for the Yale Free Press in 1995, Rao wrote that, “Yale has dedicated itself to a relatively firm meritocracy, which drops its standards only for a few minorities, some legacies and a football player here or there.” As a junior, Neomi co-authored an editorial entitled, “Separate, But More Than Equal,” arguing against what she deemed, “special treatment for minority students.”

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5684269/Rao-Separate-but-More-Than-Equal.pdf

She wrote that, AS A MINORITY !

honour, truth, fairness, not politically correct, doing the right thing, an amazing woman !

America is lucky to have her in their justice system. She replaced Brett Kavanaugh on their appeals court, Kavanaugh, you would know if you keep up with US politics, is the new supreme court appointee, there was much drama around it.

The left wing and socialists there are understandably extremely upset about her.

@xeuss you can eat her shorts !

 

[jamahir]

On a side note, there is a famous song in that movie "Zeehale miskin". The untalented Bollywood copycats can no longer make music like this anymore. It's amazing!

The lines :

Kabhi kabhi shaam aise dhalti hai
Ke jaise ghoonghat utar raha ho
Tumhaare seene se utt tha dhooa
Hamaare dil se guzar raha hai​

The left wing and socialists there are understandably extremely upset about her.

All that socialists want is social justice and harmony. What is your objection to that ?

 

[Sharma Ji]

All that socialists want is social justice and harmony. What is your objection to that ?

Meritocracy bro

kisi ki shakal* dekh ke na job deni chahiye, na job deny karni chahiye... fairness.

and by shakal I mean all aspects, jaat, paat, dharm.. the lot of it.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

She's a Trump appointee and extremely anti affirmative action and pro meritocracy, which is relevant to this topic.

You Pakistani ?


Here's some bits about her:

https://www.pfaw.org/blog-posts/neomi-rao-and-affirmative-action-another-reason-to-oppose/

https://morningconsult.com/opinions...ass-given-her-appalling-track-record-on-race/

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/neomi-rao-controversial.html

https://civilrights.org/resource/op...appeals-for-the-district-of-columbia-circuit/

https://www.abajournal.com/news/art...llege-writings-on-race-feminism-and-date-rape

https://www.naacpldf.org/naacp-publications/ldf-blog/neomi-rao-showed-us-college-believe/

"Views on Affirmative Action and Racial Justice
In an editorial for the Yale Free Press in 1995, Rao wrote that, “Yale has dedicated itself to a relatively firm meritocracy, which drops its standards only for a few minorities, some legacies and a football player here or there.” As a junior, Neomi co-authored an editorial entitled, “Separate, But More Than Equal,” arguing against what she deemed, “special treatment for minority students.”

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5684269/Rao-Separate-but-More-Than-Equal.pdf

She wrote that, AS A MINORITY !

honour, truth, fairness, not politically correct, doing the right thing, an amazing woman !

America is lucky to have her in their justice system. She replaced Brett Kavanaugh on their appeals court, Kavanaugh, you would know if you keep up with US politics, is the new supreme court appointee, there was much drama around it.

The left wing and socialists there are understandably extremely upset about her.

@xeuss you can eat her shorts !

I admire this wonderful role model of yours.

Indeed she is a MODEL MINORITY in the Trump Administration, the pride of Indian diaspora in America. She must have done a great job lobbying on behalf of Indian-Americans in America. Hopefully many of her relatives from Andhra Pradesh were able to abuse the US immigration system and be successful in their American dream.

Of course it doesn't matter that in her ancestral home of India, this same lady supports the Narendra Modi administration and their selective genocide, disenfranchisement, and vilification campaign against Indian Muslims who are legal citizens of India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As much as I'd like to blame the historical upper caste tyranny, and believe me when I say I've seen it with my own eyes and been absolutely revolted by it, this is not the same.

It is disingenuous, at the least, to say that this tyranny is different from that tyranny. Considering that the tyrants are the same, and the tyrannised are the same, no elaborate explanation is likely to carry conviction.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The discrimination in America and in modern corporate India is not built on old foundations of mythical superiority or inferiority. The base is entirely new, and built upon the perceived injustices of the non reserved in the reservation system.

Again, to repeat, the base is hardly entirely new; it is the same oppressor, the same oppressed. Earlier the cause of any oppression was archaic custom; the offender bore moustaches, or wore clothes considered unsuitable for his station in society, or had the utter audacity to ride a horse to his wedding venue. Today, it is the reservation system. The anger is just the same; it is not a cold dispassionate and clinically judgemental crowd that kills a Dalit for these crimes, or physically brutalises him, or makes him eat excreta.

How has it changed?

From the top most centrrs of learning to the ordinary fly by night institutions across the country, young millennials and gen X,Y,Z whatever you call them have developed a boiling visceral hatred for caste reservation in educational institutions and govt employment. Most of these young people aren't the ones who have practiced discrimination or even been witness to one, but suddenly find themselves punished for the crimes of their forefathers.

How strange! The objects of their hatred are being compensated for the crimes suffered by THEIR forefathers. Now isn't that a coincidence?

At least we are lucky that some things are the same. The boiling visceral hatred that these young millennials and gen X, Y, Z bear towards the presumptuous who get seats due to reservations is impossible to difference from the boiling visceral hatred that their fathers and forefathers displayed while practising discrimination.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

The lines :

Kabhi kabhi shaam aise dhalti hai
Ke jaise ghoonghat utar raha ho
Tumhaare seene se utt tha dhooa
Hamaare dil se guzar raha hai​

All that socialists want is social justice and harmony. What is your objection to that ?

Shove that song's Persianized lyrics in the face of any Pakistani poster here who claim to be Iranians, Turkish or Azerbaijaini or whatever.

"Zehaal-e-miskeen maqun baranjish, bahal e hijra bechaara dil hai"

I don't know Persian but it definitely sounds awesome whatever it means!

The song was composed by Amir Khusrow, he has more of a legacy in Delhi than Lahore, as a disciple of Auliya. Don't let them appropriate our Indian heritage.

I am not religious but I do visit Nizamuddin Auliya shrine frequently. It represents the true secular India: welcoming all faiths, and even the faithless.


---

@jamahir

Give it 1 hour before I get ATTACKED for this post from the wannabe Turkish-Iranian-Afghan posters.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Denied admissions to top colleges, denied jobs, denied scholarships, denied a future, these people have developed hatred and anger that is now directed at the beneficiaries of the reservation.

Do they ever pause to think about the exact same situation that was faced, actually, that is faced by the 'beneficiaries' of reservation? Or are those 'beneficiaries' not human, and do not count in the calculus of feeling outraged?

I've been privy to several such discussions with several individuals from the the very best institutions in india the years. The kind of people you'd expect to be the most enlightened. They all carry deep resentment against the beneficiaries of the reservation. Some are vocal, a large majority are facetious enough to hide their disgust unless in company of likeminds. A number of them have sworn to avenge this perceived injustice and denial when they get the chance.

An idle question: why have they made you privy to such discussions? Was it coincidental?

If you were to apply the yardstick of education rather than the yardstick of training to the 'very best institutions in India', you might get the glimmerings of an answer to this apparent puzzle. People do not get enlightened at these; they get empowered and entitled. They become the new masters of the universe. Most of these places offered education for fees that were laughable. Imagine, for instance, Rs. 10,000 for tuition and board and lodging for a year at one of the top two institutions of management in the country.

These were meant for the privileged sons and daughters of the privileged professional classes and military service veterans, and the civil servants. Not for the children of their servants. They were paid for at exceptionally low levels because those drafting the rules and regulations, and those sitting in legislatures passing those into law, were allied in their purpose: to keep these wonderful best institutions preserves of privilege for their own children.

There is of course the question of their revenge. They cannot flog the offenders; they cannot force physical ignominy on them; they cannot shove excreta into their mouths. Does it surprise you how they exact this revenge, these enlightened ones, in the middle of the most sanctimonious rules and regulations and guards against discrimination that far exceed those in place in their country of origin?

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Do they ever pause to think about the exact same situation that was faced, actually, that is faced by the 'beneficiaries' of reservation? Or are those 'beneficiaries' not human, and do not count in the calculus of feeling outraged?

Oh, you casteist merit-hater. You probably stole your government job position from a deserving General candidate by fabricating an SC/ST status.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is this undercurrent of rage and angst that is driving the discrimination now. People they believe unworthy, the beneficiaries who have entered the colleges by denying a worthy candidate, are subject to subtle insults and carefully structured discrimination. To the individuals carrying out these acts, it doesn't feel like discrimination. It feels like payback, restitution.

Umm, yes. Indeed.

Can someone practised in these explanations explain to me exactly how this set of undercurrents of rage and angst differ from what ran through the veins of their forefathers? How the subtle insults, and carefully structured discrimination have changed? Why is the present feeling of payback, restitution, different from the past feeling of payback, restitution for the crimes of past births that brought the Dalit to where they were?

And I don't get why people only target brahmins. This anger and hatred flows right under the surface of almost all non reserved categories.

LOL. Who targeted Brahmins? By a very curious coincidence, the two accused of discrimination were Brahmins; you might as well say that they offered themselves for targets.

Why would one target the others, the Other Backward Castes, the 'forward' castes other than the Brahmins, in general, broad-brush characterisation, unless these were found doing all those bits, the subtle and the not-so-subtle acts of discrimination? Just to let the actual perpetrators off the hook, to give them the impression that they were suffering the hatred due to a group, and were not in any way, individually responsible for discrimination?

 

[Sharma Ji]

I admire this wonderful role model of yours.

Indeed she is a MODEL MINORITY in the Trump Administration, the pride of Indian diaspora in America. She must have done a great job lobbying on behalf of Indian-Americans in America. Hopefully many of her relatives from Andhra Pradesh were able to abuse the US immigration system and be successful in their American dream.

Of course it doesn't matter that in her ancestral home of India, this same lady supports the Narendra Modi administration and their selective genocide, disenfranchisement, and vilification campaign against Indian Muslims who are legal citizens of India.

She's an American citizen. Her heritage matters little to me.

I do admire her pro meritocracy stance, and for what she has achieved in her career in the face of all the left wing socialist smears. Good stuff !

Not sure about her supporting Modi and his "genocide, disenfranchisement and vilification" against Indian muslims. Could you provide a link or two ?

I can speak for @xeuss on this matter. Neither of us will touch this fossilized pachyderm with a ten-foot pole.

You're welcome to enjoy the "shorts" thing. The very idea disgusts us.

I wouldn't hit her either lol, but that was never part of the point I was trying to make.

Also:

eat my shorts:

rude slang A dismissal that expresses one's anger or frustration with someone. Popularized as Bart Simpson's catchphrase on The Simpsons.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Eat+my+shorts!

 

[Joe Shearer]

The reservation system might bring about some social justice. But it is creating a new generation of hatred that will in time become the primary fuel for the continuation of discrimination.

Very logical. What is supposed to correct the crimes of two thousand years is not effective. We should therefore continue to live with 40% of our society condemned to the status to which these two thousand years of oppression had reduced them. No corrective action is useful. Let us not therefore correct anything. It is fate, it is karma; let the condemned suffer their condemned state; what are WE to do about it?

Anti brahmin left wing hinduphobia.

The Bard said it several centuries ago:"He jests at scars that never felt a wound."

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Not sure about her supporting Modi and his "genocide, disenfranchisement and vilification" against Indian muslims. Could you provide a link or two ?

Most US NRI's that are Hindu, on arrived there on a Hindu-1B visa, are ardent supporters of BJP. In fact, it's among the Indian diaspora in the USA that you find the most rabid Hindutvadis.

eat my shorts:

rude slang A dismissal that expresses one's anger or frustration with someone. Popularized as Bart Simpson's catchphrase on The Simpsons.

Gaay hamari mata hai. Angrezi nahi atta hai.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yep. It is a great conspiracy against the poor Brahmins. I need a tissue quickly. I cannot hold my tears.

Very helpful and just in time to effect a great rescue.